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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by techjr View Post
    Since this has turned into a pure unlimited vs limited debate with the hosts offering unlimited successfully saying it's good and the limited smaller hosts saying it's bad, maybe we can turn the discussion into "
    Code:
    Are there any new services are innovations out or coming out that may make unlimited space or bandwidth a suitable service for users?
    "
    If an unlimited hard drive or port comes out? I don't know why this is up for debate. WHT have clearly put these rules in place for a reason. Also I don't understand why it is limited smaller hosts. There are big limited hosts. Well I guess it is what you define as big.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by techjr View Post
    Since this has turned into a pure unlimited vs limited debate with the hosts offering unlimited successfully saying it's good and the limited smaller hosts saying it's bad, maybe we can turn the discussion into "
    Code:
    Are there any new services are innovations out or coming out that may make unlimited space or bandwidth a suitable service for users?
    "
    I guess some would say cloud services. But this is really just delivering unlimited on the installment plan. Cloud is the new Unlimited. When the non-admin "experts" have a breakthrough and finally realize that there is a difference between limits imposed by providers/admins and the limits imposed by hardware we will see the end of the "there is no such thing as unlimited hard drive" nonsense and make some progress
    Last edited by Collabora; 08-24-2012 at 11:37 AM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
    I guess some would say cloud services. But this is really just delivering unlimited on the installment plan. Cloud is the new Unlimited
    Cloud is hosting that benefits the user and host. Completely different from unlimited. I don't even know how you have made that connection?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by HintonHost View Post
    If there was unlimited, wouldn't the big hosts be able to put some software on servers that limited CPU usage
    It's called CloudLinux, many hosts do this

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by HintonHost View Post
    Cloud is hosting that benefits the user and host. Completely different from unlimited. I don't even know how you have made that connection?
    Nope, he is absolutely correct. Cloud is a marketing term. It's typically used for a different thing than unlimited but they are both marketing terms. People sell servers that I don't consider cloud servers as cloud servers.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by HintonHost View Post
    If there was unlimited, wouldn't the big hosts be able to put some software on servers that limited CPU usage and had control panels that didn't let you upload file types that they don't allow?

    No they don't do this because they need an excuse for suspending peoples accounts..
    Quote Originally Posted by Orien View Post
    Many do these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    CloudLinux OS, 1H Hive, LiteSpeed, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech View Post
    It's called CloudLinux, many hosts do this
    I will add that this is also easily accomplished in Windows/IIS. HintonHost has to realize that a hosting control panel is just the beginning and can only accomplish a small subset of what can be done directly in OS.
    Last edited by Collabora; 08-24-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
    I will add that this is also easily accomplished in Windows/IIS. HintonHost has to realize that a hosting control panel is just the beginning and can only accomplish a small subset of what can be done directly in OS.
    Aren't you limited to GoDaddy's affiliate control panel?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by HintonHost View Post
    Aren't you limited to GoDaddy's affiliate control panel?
    I don't use the affiliate panel I use the reseller panel. But this only when I manage GD hosting plans. GD employees/admins have access to the OS. And it really doesn't matter whether I am a shoe salesman or a server admin (I am the latter). The truth of my post is independent of my occupation. However, my occupation gives me the knowledge to write on the subject. If you don't believe me or the other 3 and don't want to learn that is your business.

    If you do want to learn start with my post #83 above: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...2&postcount=83

    This is the OS origin of the disk quota you find in your control panel. Disk quotas were around long before shared hosting plans. As a mater of fact when I first started hosting I did not use a control panel. A control panel is just running a script for what admins do at the command line. What you see in the post is what it looks like behind the scenes. If you want I can show you the windows version.
    Last edited by Collabora; 08-24-2012 at 12:19 PM.

  9. #109
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    As I said, what you describe is 'unmetered' disk usage.

    However, if you place limits on what that disk usage can be employed for - then it's certainly not unlimited., it's unmetered, with certain usage restrictions.

    Unlimited in hosting is the marketing equivalent of running an all-you-can-eat buffet but only having 10 chickens. you just better hope the football team don't all turn up!

    How many 'unlimited' hosts let you do what you want with the space, and will upgrade their own disks as you fill the space?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by dediserve View Post
    As I said, what you describe is 'unmetered' disk usage.

    However, if you place limits on what that disk usage can be employed for - then it's certainly not unlimited., it's unmetered, with certain usage restrictions.

    Unlimited in hosting is the marketing equivalent of running an all-you-can-eat buffet but only having 10 chickens. you just better hope the football team don't all turn up!

    How many 'unlimited' hosts let you do what you want with the space, and will upgrade their own disks as you fill the space?
    If you are abiding by their Terms of Service, any respectible host.

  11. #111
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    Lol, that's the whole point of the discussion.

    If the space is limited (by terms of service, by physical limitations of the disks) then, by definition it's not unlimited.

    "Unmetered, with some restrictions applicable" just won't sucker in as many gullible customers

  12. #112
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    So, what makes an Unlimited Host different from something like this
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...38#post8302138

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMyers View Post
    So, what makes an Unlimited Host different from something like this
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...38#post8302138
    Most unlimited hosts don't put
    Quote Originally Posted by LENOVOhost View Post
    All Non Oversold Web Hosting Plans come with the latest cPanel, 99.9% Uptime Guarantee, 7 Days Moneyback Guarantee and Instant Account Activation
    and then oversell with the server with one account so that none of that applies!

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by morrisonhosting View Post
    and then oversell with the server with one account so that none of that applies!
    It is a loophole in the post

  15. #115
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    Well, at least they claim to give you 10TB disk space, then proudly advertise the server has 4x 1TB disk

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMyers View Post
    It is a loophole in the post
    It's an outright contradiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by dediserve View Post
    Well, at least they claim to give you 10TB disk space, then proudly advertise the server has 4x 1TB disk
    Yep. Nothing much more to be said.

    Back to topic!

    I think that WHT should allow the posting of Unmetered advertisements that clearly outline what the limitations are. Some people are looking for those offers, what's the harm in having them here?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
    When the non-admin "experts" have a breakthrough and finally realize that there is a difference between limits imposed by providers/admins and the limits imposed by hardware we will see the end of the "there is no such thing as unlimited hard drive" nonsense and make some progress
    First, who are you calling a non-admin? Do you have any knowledge of the background of posters in this thread to be able to say such a thing, or is that just pure conjecture? It would be nice if you didn't insult people who may very well have more experience in the hosting industry than yourself.

    Anyway, on to your point. Sure, there's two layers of limitations. But even if I set an account to have no quota, that account is STILL limited by the physical hard disk on the system. All accounts on the server are, in fact.

    If I setup a Linux VM with 2GB disk space assigned to it, su - into an account that has supposedly "unlimited quota" as you call it, and create a bunch of random data that takes up the remaining space on the box, I'm going to start getting write failures after a certain point (less than 2GB even, because the OS will consume some space).

    If I go a step further and assign the VM no quota (or at least, an obscenely high one), I'll reach write errors again once I reach the hard disk space of the host node (or the partition, etc.).

    The fact that you assign a user no quota doesn't mean that their disk space has no upper bounds. Calling it an unlimited space plan suggests there are no upper bounds! I cannot break it down any simpler than that.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    First, who are you calling a non-admin? .
    Those who are not admins. Is that a problem?

    The fact that you assign a user no quota doesn't mean that their disk space has no upper bounds. Calling it an unlimited space plan suggests there are no upper bounds!
    Its the anti-unlimited crowd that insists and suggests unlimited disk quota is the same thing as unlimited space. Unlimited hosts never make that claim outside the context of hosting quotas.
    Last edited by Collabora; 08-24-2012 at 05:14 PM.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
    Those who are not admins. Is that a problem?
    Sounded like you were giving this label out to anyone who disagreed with you.

    Its the anti-unlimited crowd that insists and suggests unlimited disk quota is the same thing as unlimited space. Unlimited hosts never make that claim outside the context of hosting quotas.
    Except, most unlimited providers call it unlimited space themselves! So it's them who make the claim.

    What is that you don't understand about this? It is YOU who is trying to say it's just quota and everything is okay.

    http://hostgator.com/shared.shtml

    They say Unlimited Disk Space. Not Quota!

    You are trying to argue that quota is different, sure that's fine, but that's not what they're calling it anyway.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Sounded like you were giving this label out to anyone who disagreed with you.



    Except, most unlimited providers call it unlimited space themselves! So it's them who make the claim. .
    But its in the context of quotas. the hosting plan is a list of quotas, limited or unlimited, disk space or email accounts, databases or subdomains. Very rarely does anyone use the word quota in the plan description, but that is indeed what it is.

    If your position now as been reduced to the wording of a bullet point in a plan box, I say fine, I'll go along with whatever suggest. You've come a long way grasshopper
    Last edited by Collabora; 08-24-2012 at 05:22 PM.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
    But its in the context of quotas. the hosting plan is a list of quotas, limited or unlimited, disk space or email accounts, databases or subdomains. Very rarely does anyone use the word quota in the plan description, but that is indeed what it is
    Great, and do you think the average hosting customer knows that when the host advertises "Unlimited Disk Space" it actually means "Unlimited Disk Quota"?

    You are arguing technicalities here, and failing to see that the average customer doesn't know anything about how this works on the backend, or at least not very much.

    You've come a long way grasshopper
    Sad that we have such immature people on this forum. My argument is very clearly defined throughout the thread. You are the one trying to back your own argument with this insistence that all the plans are talking about is "quotas" and everything is fine because of that.

  22. #122
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    Here we go again with this.. In simple terms so that the 'non admin' (not me) can understand this..

    Firstly, setting a user's quota to 0 is effectively telling them they have 'unlimited space'. Of course, that's a lie. They have a quota, a limit on resources, the hard drive limitation itself.

    Next, say someone does do that, sign up for your 'unlimited' plan. We'll use one of my own sites as an example... A 300+ gig music site (fansite, band approved)... So, let's say I decide to sign up for one of those fancy 'unlimited' (or no quota) plans, and find out that wait, the server can't hold all of my stuff. Oh NO... What to DO? Am I over my limits? YES, and I have forced everyone over their limits because, lo and behold I've thrown my music onto an 'unlimited' plan.

    The fact is that this is a lie. Yes, it's a bold faced lie. Even AFTER setting a person's quota to 0, you STILL have limitations. This is what is called a bait and switch. Get the customer in , sucker them into a cheap price, then shut them off when they pass your supposed 'limits'..

    BTW, this is not 'innovation' by any means. This argument, this debate has gone on for YEARS, before most of you entered the biz, and will continue WAY after people like myself (the experienced admins that keep your server running) go down in flames with your "unlimited" plans

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    When I can go to the store and buy an "unlimited" hard drive and tell my bandwidth provider to put me on the "unlimited" port on their switch I will agree with you.

    People offering "unlimited" resources and then limiting them in the fine print are liars and scammers.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech View Post
    Next, say someone does do that, sign up for your 'unlimited' plan. We'll use one of my own sites as an example... A 300+ gig music site (fansite, band approved)...
    That you have to invent a scenario, and an extreme one at that, to prove your point only strengthens my argument. Show me such a site suitable for a shared hosting environment that was removed for reasons that would not be found on a limited plan. This is nothing but a straw-man argument. Look it up.
    Last edited by Collabora; 08-24-2012 at 06:22 PM.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGobyTerry View Post
    At the very least:

    1. Removal of disk space restriction
    2. Removal of bandwidth restrictions
    3. Allow lifetime hosting offers
    How is that innovative? Gazillions of hosts have been offering this for years, but I could probably count on one hand those who are still around to tell the success tale

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