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  #1  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
shovenose shovenose is offline
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Unlimited: What does it really mean?


So, another post of mine made me think: in a hosting environment, truly "unlimited" is impossible.
There is no such thing as an UNLIMITED-TB hard disk!
However, it's of my opinion that "unlimited" is really just another way to say that "there is no set limit to what amount of disk space and bandwidth you can use, as long as you comply with the terms of service"

I looked at my website, and found the appropriate parts of the terms of service.
Quote:
2. Terms of Usage

Customer, or its contractors, employees, directors, officers, representatives, agents and affiliates and OrderBox Users, either directly or indirectly, shall not use or permit use of the Hosting Order, in violation of this Agreement, and for any of the activities described below -

(1) As a backup/storage device.

(2) For any unacceptable or inappropriate material as determined by Parent in its sole discretion, including but not limited to Topsites, IRC Scripts/Bots, Proxy Scripts/Anonymizers, Pirated Software/Warez, Image Hosting Scripts (similar to Photobucket or Tinypic), AutoSurf/PTC/PTS/PPC sites, IP Scanners, Bruteforce Programs/Scripts/Applications, Mail Bombers/Spam Scripts, Banner-Ad services (commercial banner ad rotation), File Dump/Mirror Scripts (similar to rapidshare), Commercial Audio Streaming (more than one or two streams), Escrow/Bank Debentures, High-Yield Interest Programs (HYIP) or Related Sites, Investment Sites (FOREX, E-Gold Exchange, Second Life/Linden Exchange, Ponzi, MLM/Pyramid Scheme), Sale of any controlled substance without prior proof of appropriate permit(s), Prime Banks Programs, Lottery Sites, MUDs/RPGs/PPBGs, Hateful/Racist/Harassment oriented sites, Hacker focused sites/archives/programs, Sites promoting illegal activities, Forums and/or websites that distribute or link to warez/pirated/illegal content, Bank Debentures/Bank Debenture Trading Programs, Fraudulent Sites (Including, but not limited to sites listed at aa419.org & escrow-fraud.com), Mailer Pro.

(3) Use over 25% of system resources, including but not limited to Memory, CPU, Disk, Network, and Bandwidth capacity, for longer than 90 seconds in any consecutive 6 hour period.

(4) Execute long-running, stand-alone, unattended server-side processes, bots or daemons.

(5) Run any type of web spiders or indexers.

(6) Run any software that interfaces with an IRC (Internet Relay Chat) network.

(7) Run, host, or store any P2P client, tracker, software, server, files, content or application, including bittorrent.

(8) Participate in any P2P or file-sharing networks.

(9) Run any gaming servers.

(10) Run cron entries with intervals of less than 15 minutes.

(11) Store over 100,000 files.

(12) Constantly create and delete large numbers of files on a regular basis, or cause file system damage.

(13) Run any MySQL queries longer than 15 seconds.

(14) Divide Multi-Domain Hosting Orders into smaller packages to resell. Multi-Domain Hosting Orders may be used by only one company/Customer to host multiple domain names/websites.

(15) Use excessive resources which in the Parent's sole discretion result in damage or degradation to the performance, usage, or experience of OrderBox, other users, other orders, and any of Parent's services.

(16) Store a large number of media files (audio, video, etc.), wherein the limit is at Parent's sole discretion.
Basically anything that could use up ridiculous amounts of disk space is disallowed and/or limited by how many resources each shared account is allowed to use.
But that means that even BlueHost, HostGator, my hosting company, are not really lying.
For example , another popular shared host has the following on their website:
Quote:

Unlimited disk space? How is that possible?

While it may sound unrealistic - it's true. With Hosting24.com you receive unlimited disk space and bandwidth - we guarantee it.

What's the trick? No tricks at all. You get what you see. Even if your account uses 10 GB of disk space, we will never kick you off and you can continue uploading. Let us explain how it works.

These days server disk drives are very affordable. For example, we get a 2000GB disk drive for just $40 per month. So, if one day, we start running out of disk space, we simply attach new disk drive and you can continue uploading without interruptions. At the moment we have over 5000 customers and the biggest account takes "only" 50 GB of disk space, so even in the worst case scenario, we could still put 40 such customers on a single disk drive and then attach new disk drives with minimal costs.

But, there is one thing you should know all the files you store on your account must be legal. For example, you cannot upload music that is copyrighted; only music that you have permission to distribute or music that you have created yourself can be uploaded to your account. You cannot upload any copyrighted photos or videos either, only your own material. Additionally sites designed to file sharing / archive / backup / mirroring purposes are not allowed by our terms of service.

Unlimited Bandwidth

Unlimited data transfer is becoming normal these days too. Our internet service provider is giving us dedicated and unmetered 100 Mbps line on each server, so we can offer unlimited bandwidth for you too! Please also note that all files you make available for download must be legal and you must have full permission to distribute them.
They make a valid point. So, basically, my conclusion is as follows: When choosing a host, check out the features and the support, and what others experience is. Don't worry about "unlimited" hosting...
And remember, you get what you pay for. And don't use free hosting

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  #2  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:32 PM
the_pm the_pm is offline
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I've always contended that it is deceptive to advertise hosting plans that make liberal use of the word "unlimited" and then to write all sorts of limits into legals. There is no such thing as unlimited hosting.There is only hosting where the limits are maintained through measurements other than physical drive space and data transfer.

It irks me when a host doesn't make this clear. To me, this is as bad as when you sign up for a free issue of a magazine and in teeny tiny text they tell you if you don't unsubscribe within a month, you'll get hit with a big bill. It's as shady as when DROA sends out domain renewal letters that look like invoices but are really getting you to switch to their service without you really knowing it. It's deceptive. It's legal, but it's deceptive, and it certainly doesn't inspire respect.

----------

SIGN UP HERE FOR UNLIMITED HOSTING*

* unlimited hosting doesn't actually exist.

----------

Shady ^

If a host isn't going to monitor HD or transfer, fine. But they should be telling buyers upfront exactly what they ARE monitoring, and not simply hiding it in their TOS.

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  #3  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:40 PM
shovenose shovenose is offline
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DROA sucks lol.

But back to the point on hand, while you have a valid point there, I kind of disagree!
I do not think a customer should expect to run YouTube on a sub-$10 hosting plan.
To quote my site,
Quote:
Q. What is Shared Web hosting?
In Shared Web Hosting, multiple clients are hosted on a single server i.e. the clients share the server's resources. This helps reduce the cost, since the cost of the server and its resources are spread over all the clients/packages hosted on the server. Shared Hosting is perfect for personal websites, small and mid-sized businesses that do not require all the resources of a server.
Does it not state that is only for small to medium-sized sites that don't need a dedicated server? That is not a lie.

Really the only two lies I found on BlueHost's site were:
Quote:
Our resource protection saves customers from having to deal with almost all slowdowns caused by other abusive processes. No other shared hosting company can say that
Quote:
We specialize in customer service.
But neither of those really have anything to do with the fact that they provide unlimited hosting.

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  #4  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:42 PM
iexo iexo is offline
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I have the same views as the_pm.

It's dishonest, sly and not customer-focussed at all.
Yes, everyone should read the small print however providers should be realistic, laws should even be made against it.

It's like tax and vat, it's compulsory to state clearly whether pricing shown charges VAT, so it should be compulsory for providers to advertise clearly what you can actually do.

Unlimited disk space may just mean the amount of space but there really should be clear indications regarding where you are actually limited.

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  #5  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:47 PM
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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Another thing is this:

Unlimited*

* Except when the following conditions occur:
- Files over 1MB.
- Image files.
- Video files.
- Audio files.
- ISO files.
- It's a Tuesday.
- When you've fallen and can't get up.
- You're not a Snoopy fan.


_____

By the time the hidden limits kick in, your hosting account is good for HTML pages and nothing else.
Forget about Web 2.0 or whatever we're moving towards.
No, no -- Welcome to 1995!

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  #6  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:06 PM
the_pm the_pm is offline
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Quote:
I do not think a customer should expect to run YouTube on a sub-$10 hosting plan.
I completely agree with this statement. The problem is that when a host advertises "unlimited" and then downplays two facts, 1)that limits do indeed exist, and 2)those things that are actually being limited, it creates the unreasonable expectation that a customer should be able to run Youtube on a shared hosting plan.

Hosts who advertise themselves as unlimited as responsible for this wholly troubling mindset that everyone in the industry ("unlimited" and limited hosts alike) then have to handle. If hosts weren't allowed to advertise deceptively, we would have less issues with people thinking big sites can fit into tiny spaces.

If a host advertises aspects of their hosting as unlimited and do not properly educate their buyers on what parts are limited, they are creating the very problem you've pointed out.

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  #7  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:11 PM
shovenose shovenose is offline
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Here are two different approaches. One is a lie ("the last hosting plan you'll ever need") and one isn't "Unlimited web hosting" is not a lie by itself
Attached Thumbnails
Untitled.png   Untitled2.png  

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  #8  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:13 PM
Collabora Collabora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
So, another post of mine made me think: in a hosting environment, truly "unlimited" is impossible.
There is no such thing as an UNLIMITED-TB hard disk!
However, it's of my opinion that "unlimited" is really just another way to say that "there is no set limit to what amount of disk space and bandwidth you can use, as long as you comply with the terms of service"

I looked at my website, and found the appropriate parts of the terms of service.

Basically anything that could use up ridiculous amounts of disk space is disallowed and/or limited by how many resources each shared account is allowed to use.
But that means that even BlueHost, HostGator, my hosting company, are not really lying.
For example , another popular shared host has the following on their website:

They make a valid point. So, basically, my conclusion is as follows: When choosing a host, check out the features and the support, and what others experience is. Don't worry about "unlimited" hosting...
And remember, you get what you pay for. And don't use free hosting
That's exaclty what it means. Its very simple: Provider does not impose an arbitrary quota. Its the absence of this quota that makes a plan unlimited. Its the quota that is unlimited, not the hardware.

The irony is even though many of them don't seem to accept this (and don't know why -- a sad commentary on the hosting industry) that is precisely how they can offer unlimited email + unlimited databases + unlimited sites while offering only 1GB of disk space

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  #9  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:14 PM
iexo iexo is offline
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Marketing tactics SUCK!

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  #10  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:15 PM
KMyers KMyers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
Here are two different approaches. One is a lie ("the last hosting plan you'll ever need") and one isn't "Unlimited web hosting" is not a lie by itself
Hello,
This is a pet peeve of mine. It is one thing if you want to operate an unlimited host. But be clear with your customers. Which is the most clear to me? #2.


The reason is simple, I hate seeing space measurements on unlimited plans. I have seen unlimited MB, GB and even TB!!!! Lets face it, you can most likely get away with using 2-5 GB of space on an unlimited host if you stay under the radar. I have yet to see a host that will allow 1 account to use even a fraction of 1 TB.

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  #11  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:17 PM
nibb nibb is offline
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Welcome to the unregulated, tricky and scamy hosting world

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  #12  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:19 PM
shovenose shovenose is offline
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My friend claims he has 2TB of data on WebHostingPad.com
That company was so bad when I used them. Slow, downtime, MySQL down, etc... maybe because they allow people to have 2TB of data? LOL!
I still think that if managed properly "unlimited" shared web hosting works fine.

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  #13  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:24 PM
Collabora Collabora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMyers View Post
Hello,
This is a pet peeve of mine. It is one thing if you want to operate an unlimited host. But be clear with your customers. Which is the most clear to me? #2.
Why are the anti-unlimited people so full of double standards? The presumption here is that limited hosts don't lie? Or is their lying acceptable? Unlimited email + unlimited databases + unlimited sites is just as much a lie. And here is what one limited host puts across his home page (see attached. looks like an ad for unlimited hosting doen't it?). Unlimited hosting with limited plans!!!!!!!! amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!! And what about all those limited hosts with all thost world-class datacenters? The lies are endless. Your cherry-picking of lies is also a form of lying.

For every unlimited lie that is posted here I can scrape a few off of some limited websites
Attached Thumbnails
hosting.jpg  


Last edited by Collabora; 07-09-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:30 PM
shovenose shovenose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
Why are the anti-unlimited people so full of double standards? The presumption here is that limited hosts don't lie? Or is their lying acceptable? Unlimited email + unlimited databases + unlimited sites is just as much a lie. And here is what one limited host puts across his home page (see attached). Unlimited hosting with limited plans!!!!!!!! amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!! And what about all those limited hosts with all thost world-class datacenters? The lies are endless. Your cherry-picking of lies is also a form of lying.
You're a GoDaddy reseller. GoDaddy horribly oversells their shared servers... so look who's talking
joking aside, None of said that limited hosts are perfect. We are discussng the mixed form of truth and lies that unlimited hosts use

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  #15  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:30 PM
iexo iexo is offline
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I just don't know who's to blame, it's like what came first, chicken or egg...

Clients who want all for nothing, or the providers who promise all and give nothing?

I wish we could make people realise how stupid the notion is of unlimited data, it baffles me how someone can think their site will be even slightly responsive on a server where everyone is 'unlimited'.

Next we'll be seeing unlimited SSD clouds with hardware level DDoS protection, raid 10, hourly backups etc for $2.99, with clients complaining when they get screwed over!


For the record, I'm not anti-unlimited.
I'm pro-fairness.
Unlimited is not a word I hate, what I hate is hidden terms with real limits.

Clients should be presented with clear transparent facts before ordering, not hidden turns which bite them in the ass.


Last edited by iexo; 07-09-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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