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  1. #26
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    SATA II with Raid-1 / Raid-10 are still really good and perform still just as good as a SAS15k but overall times are changing and we are all hopping on the bandwagon.

    Personally tried SSD no real issues, are they heavily reliable, beg to differ at the moment but overall if anything I would stay on the SAS15k track.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    SATA II with Raid-1 / Raid-10 are still really good and perform still just as good as a SAS15k but overall times are changing and we are all hopping on the bandwagon.=
    Not sure what you mean. SATA II does not perform as well SAS 15K unless you're doing an unfair comparison of more than double SATA II drives vs the same amount of SAS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    Personally tried SSD no real issues, are they heavily reliable, beg to differ at the moment but overall if anything I would stay on the SAS15k track.
    In our fairly extensive testing we've seen no problems with reliability on the Intel drives. The newest Samsung drives seem promising too. SSD failures are often predictable and can result in a read-only state which means the data is still accessible, compared to a complete data loss on other drives. You can also use 'over-provisioning' to improve reliability (increased write tolerance) and performance of the drive.

    If you do the proper research and set things up properly, SSDs are great.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Not sure what you mean. SATA II does not perform as well SAS 15K unless you're doing an unfair comparison of more than double SATA II drives vs the same amount of SAS.



    In our fairly extensive testing we've seen no problems with reliability on the Intel drives. The newest Samsung drives seem promising too. SSD failures are often predictable and can result in a read-only state which means the data is still accessible, compared to a complete data loss on other drives. You can also use 'over-provisioning' to improve reliability (increased write tolerance) and performance of the drive.

    If you do the proper research and set things up properly, SSDs are great.
    Not sure why you aim to state that SSD is super awesome all the time, I think it has been established that it's surely better overall than previous disks such as SATA II and SAS15k's, I am not stipulating that SSD's are bad, we have used them and do use them within our setup as well - so we understand the aspects of it.

    I am simply saying that even if you are still using SATA II or SAS15k's today you will still find sturdy performance and reliability, in our time we never had issues with SATA II ever, nor did we encounter anything bad with SAS15k - we did encounter issues with SSD's once or twice and hence why I was stating that they may have a higher failure rate but that is based on our experience.

    I know you will come back with something classic to try and prove me wrong, but I am only stating from our own experiences.

  4. #29
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    thanks for this

  5. #30
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    I switch over to an SSD vps because my load usually came from mysql. I see a big change in performance (I run a vbulletin board).

    If you're going to go with an SSD host, backups backups backups. Even if you're in a RAIN environment, SSDs are prone to failure.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    I am simply saying that even if you are still using SATA II or SAS15k's today you will still find sturdy performance and reliability, in our time we never had issues with SATA II ever, nor did we encounter anything bad with SAS15k - we did encounter issues with SSD's once or twice and hence why I was stating that they may have a higher failure rate but that is based on our experience.
    Your experience is valid of course.

    Here's mine.

    Many times clients signup for a server with 2 sata drives for a mirrored array. Then they get popular/busy/whatever and they start pushing some serious IO spikes - several hundred or even thousands IOPS. The options are to upgrade to a larger raid array, pop in an ssd or pay someone to optimise their application so it stops hitting disk so bad. Often, the cheapest route is to pop in an SSD and those IO spikes are simply a non issue. We've done this so many times I've now lost count and every single time it's been a success.

    Is it a magic bullet? Hell no, usually the problem in site performance has NOTHING to do with server hardware. But often, it can be a cheap fix.

    Of course, if a client says "My site is slow" we don't just say "Buy an SSD" because that's ridiculous.

    We even use SSD's to power our whole shared hosting servers. Mostly it's overkill and done just for fun but it is nice to know that our servers will likely never encounter io issues.

    As for SSD reliability & failures? We've had less failures than I can count on my left hand. Maybe 3. 2 of those were with customer supplied OCZ drives. One Intel drive was DOA. I can't recall any other failures.

    In my experience, sas15k never solved anything and was always an overpriced solution for the pittance in extra performance you gained while sacrificing capacity. Whereas with SSD's, you are talking 100x improvement in performance, which is quite often worth the sacrifice in storage capacity.
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  7. #32
    lostmind - what capacity SSDs are you using for shared hosting?
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostmind View Post
    Your experience is valid of course.

    Here's mine.

    Many times clients signup for a server with 2 sata drives for a mirrored array. Then they get popular/busy/whatever and they start pushing some serious IO spikes - several hundred or even thousands IOPS. The options are to upgrade to a larger raid array, pop in an ssd or pay someone to optimise their application so it stops hitting disk so bad. Often, the cheapest route is to pop in an SSD and those IO spikes are simply a non issue. We've done this so many times I've now lost count and every single time it's been a success.

    Is it a magic bullet? Hell no, usually the problem in site performance has NOTHING to do with server hardware. But often, it can be a cheap fix.

    Of course, if a client says "My site is slow" we don't just say "Buy an SSD" because that's ridiculous.

    We even use SSD's to power our whole shared hosting servers. Mostly it's overkill and done just for fun but it is nice to know that our servers will likely never encounter io issues.

    As for SSD reliability & failures? We've had less failures than I can count on my left hand. Maybe 3. 2 of those were with customer supplied OCZ drives. One Intel drive was DOA. I can't recall any other failures.

    In my experience, sas15k never solved anything and was always an overpriced solution for the pittance in extra performance you gained while sacrificing capacity. Whereas with SSD's, you are talking 100x improvement in performance, which is quite often worth the sacrifice in storage capacity.
    Sounds good when you put it like that.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngky7 View Post
    I was thinking to get server for my new hosting business. However, Some people said it doesnt really help. Any suggestion? I am thinking to sell SSD Shared hosting at this moment. Saw a few reseller with SSD too.

    Thanks
    Tom's Hardware wrote an article about the reliability of SSD drives in data centers:
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  10. #35
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    Got to love Tom's Hardware and Anandtech.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyVox View Post
    I switch over to an SSD vps because my load usually came from mysql. I see a big change in performance (I run a vbulletin board).

    If you're going to go with an SSD host, backups backups backups. Even if you're in a RAIN environment, SSDs are prone to failure.
    Good SSDs are not prone to failure at all.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orien View Post
    Good SSDs are not prone to failure at all.
    If this is the case, I may need to test Clever Kite one day - even though prices are expensive (it's a given for SSD's) I am sure we can come to a possible agreement on it being sturdy.

    But I would give it a few months before I jump in with any conclusions and/or results.

    We will see, it is easier to say it will be "not prone to failure" but proving it's entirely different.
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  13. #38
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    You need to be careful with SSD's. Most hosts that offer cheap SSD deals are using Desktop grade drives in servers. These things burn out like mad, and need replacing a lot. There is a reason why a 100Gb server SSD costs 1000

    In the end you get what you pay for.
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  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Webhosts-uk View Post
    You need to be careful with SSD's. Most hosts that offer cheap SSD deals are using Desktop grade drives in servers. These things burn out like mad, and need replacing a lot. There is a reason why a 100Gb server SSD costs 1000

    In the end you get what you pay for.
    What providers do you know of that use desktop grade SSDs?

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  15. #40
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    I wouldn't like to name names....
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  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Webhosts-uk View Post
    I wouldn't like to name names....
    Maybe you could PM me. Do you know what models they use?

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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    If this is the case, I may need to test Clever Kite one day - even though prices are expensive (it's a given for SSD's) I am sure we can come to a possible agreement on it being sturdy.

    But I would give it a few months before I jump in with any conclusions and/or results.

    We will see, it is easier to say it will be "not prone to failure" but proving it's entirely different.
    Its already been proven. Many large organizations have been using SSDs for quite a while now without issues. Similarly, many people have tested them through rather brutal usage. It's all about using the right drives for the right application, with a proper configuration.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoker View Post
    Got to love Tom's Hardware and Anandtech.
    Absolutely. Two of my favorite sites.
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  19. #44
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    My favorite is when you have SSH access and you run a command, but discover you're not on a SSD as advertized.

    You'd be surprised on how many host advertize their hardware to be X, Y, Z, ..... But what you're really getting is something else (typically less).

    This applies to software too and not just hardware.

    ▲ ▲

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMyers View Post
    I dont agree here. SSDs technically have a higher failure rate. You do want to make sure that backups are made to magnetic storage just in case
    Quote Originally Posted by ngky7 View Post
    thanks, just that I heard many saying higher failure rate or file system get corrupted very often.
    I'm sorry, but where in the world did this data come from?? It is either someone using terrible SSDs or someone who has no idea what they're doing. We've been using Intel and Samsung SSDs for years, have a couple hundred in production and we have NEVER had a failure that resulted in data loss, never. I have not seen any indication that SSD failures are anywhere CLOSE to the level of standard drives, and our own in-house usage statistics clearly show SSDs as being more reliable. They've even proven to be so reliable that we recommend software RAID for RAIDing them since data loss and general failure is MORE likely from a RAID card (still only around a 1% annual chance) than from an SSD.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Its already been proven. Many large organizations have been using SSDs for quite a while now without issues. Similarly, many people have tested them through rather brutal usage. It's all about using the right drives for the right application, with a proper configuration.
    Regardless of it being proven, sadly we moved off them because of the issues we constantly encountered with them and that just comes down to experience.

    You may think they are "awesome" but we think it may be best to wait a little longer
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  22. #47
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Simplex-Ed View Post
    Greetings,

    On our shared servers, we use SSD in RAID 1 as a base and then mount /home onto SAS 15K disks in a RAID 10 array. It's a fantastic setup and the disk IO is phenomenal.

    So, what I'm saying is using SSD is a good idea -- MYSQL etc will have fantastic query times, but using SSD for /home too is not very practical. Good SAS or SATA disks will work fine.

    Good luck!

    We use SSD + SAS on our new shared servers too. Amazing I should say.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    Regardless of it being proven, sadly we moved off them because of the issues we constantly encountered with them and that just comes down to experience.

    You may think they are "awesome" but we think it may be best to wait a little longer
    What SSDs and SSD configurations did you use and what issues did you have?
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  24. #49
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    I've used to have nice experiences with SSD's so far, they are very good for database I/O, and also for many and small files, since the lookup time is very short likely 0.0001ms, so yes if you are demanding I/O they are perfect.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    What SSDs and SSD configurations did you use and what issues did you have?
    I'd also be interested in learning what config was used.

    Just like Karl, zero problems here with the Intel and Samsung drives (mostly Intel in use).
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