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  1. #1
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    SSD hosting? reliable?

    I was thinking to get server for my new hosting business. However, Some people said it doesnt really help. Any suggestion? I am thinking to sell SSD Shared hosting at this moment. Saw a few reseller with SSD too.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    SSDs are quite expensive, but are much more reliable, have longer life, and don't make any noise.

    Not to mention read/write operations are significantly faster. Who told you they don't help?

    With that said, it is pointless in certain use cases. It depends on what you're hosting whether you need it or not, will see the benefits or not.

  3. #3
    Greetings,

    On our shared servers, we use SSD in RAID 1 as a base and then mount /home onto SAS 15K disks in a RAID 10 array. It's a fantastic setup and the disk IO is phenomenal.

    So, what I'm saying is using SSD is a good idea -- MYSQL etc will have fantastic query times, but using SSD for /home too is not very practical. Good SAS or SATA disks will work fine.

    Good luck!

    Last edited by Simplex-Ed; 04-09-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sajanNOPPIX View Post
    SSDs are quite expensive, but are much more reliable, have longer life, and don't make any noise.
    I dont agree here. SSDs technically have a higher failure rate. You do want to make sure that backups are made to magnetic storage just in case
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  5. #5
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    SSD in RAID 1 as a base and then mount /home onto SAS 15K disks in a RAID 10 array
    this make more sense and seems stable.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ngky7 View Post
    this make more sense and seems stable.


    Realistically if you use that method, you'll only be using a small amount of disk space (OS, SQL, /boot etc). If you really do want to use SSD for /home too, prepare to pay the huge price tag.

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  7. #7
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    thanks, just that I heard many saying higher failure rate or file system get corrupted very often.

  8. #8
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    anyone can recommend me a reseller with such or similar configuration ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ngky7 View Post
    thanks, just that I heard many saying higher failure rate or file system get corrupted very often.
    Sure... which is why you need to be vigilant. Utilise a RAID array of disks instead of a single drive and, most importantly, a system of continuous data protection. R1Soft is a good choice.

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  10. #10
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    SATA/SAS is more than enough for Shared hosting.
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  11. #11
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    I use SSD's on my main computer at home. All my servers for my company use conventional HDD but I can tell you that when I run a game server off my home computer on the SSD it makes a huge difference

    compared to my normal magnetic hard drive. I would think it would make a big difference for game server hosting, not so much of a difference for web hosting as well as not being worth-while, and it would

    be the same as web hosting for VPS hosting.
    Last edited by Ianm56; 04-09-2012 at 11:11 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by HostXNow View Post
    SATA/SAS is more than enough for Shared hosting.
    You can't apply that argument -- the use of SSD is dependant on the user's needs.

    SATA/SAS is fine for home computers, but why do you think people still use SSD? For the performance benefits.

    Why do shared providers use SSD? For the performance benefits. Take MYSQL for example...
    Last edited by Simplex-Ed; 04-09-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplex-Ed View Post
    You can't apply that argument -- the use of SSD is dependant on the user's needs.

    SATA/SAS is fine for home computers, but why do you think people still use SSD? For the performance benefits.
    Of course, SSD is faster, but SATA/SAS does the job. I doubt it'll make any difference to the end user whether the host is using SAS or SSD. Because the provider will just use the extra I/O from SSD to put more accounts on the server... which is the same as a provider using SATA/SSD with less accounts on the server. In the end, you get what you pay for, so ...

    Edit: I see you edited your post after I had already quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simplex-Ed View Post
    Why do shared providers use SSD? For the performance benefits. Take MYSQL for example..
    Yup, but it still comes back to my point of getting what you pay for, so I doubt it'll even matter to the end user...
    Last edited by HostXNow_Chris; 04-09-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HostXNow View Post
    Of course, SSD is faster, but SATA/SAS does the job. I doubt it'll make any difference to the end user whether the host is using SAS or SSD. Because the provider will just use the extra I/O from SSD to put more accounts on the server... which is the same as a provider using SATA/SSD with less accounts on the server. In the end, you get what you pay for, so ...
    That's not even close to true. Why are you implying that all hosts who use SSDs oversell? MediaLayer uses SSDs and MediaLayer doesn't oversell, and I'm sure there are many more out there who don't oversell as well.

    SSDs are not faster than SAS drives, they are MUCH faster than SAS drives; like magnitudes of 10s faster than SAS drives, faster. SSD drives are especially good at random reades/writes, which is exactly what web hosting requires. End users will notice a tremendous difference between SAS drives and SSD drives.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam316 View Post
    Why are you implying that all hosts who use SSDs oversell?
    Most providers will.
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  16. #16
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    SSDs make a huge difference for end-users on desktops and laptops. They make that same impact on servers. That's really all there is to it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HostXNow View Post
    Most providers will.
    Like whom? We use SSD and won't place more than 10 accounts per CPU core. That's no more than 240 accounts per server, I don't class that as overselling by any means .

    I'm curious as to which shared providers that utilise SSD you know of that oversell. If a shared provider is using SSD, it's obvious that generally speaking they are going the extra mile and focus on performance. They wouldn't ruin that by overselling.
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  18. #18
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    A lot of providers oversell with SATA/SAS, no different with SSD. Just because they're using SSD doesn't automatically mean they're not overselling.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HostXNow View Post
    Most providers will.
    I don't think so. I think the type of provider who cares enough to put SSDs in their shared hosting are less prone to oversell than those who have your average SATA or SAS RAID setup.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam316 View Post
    I don't think so. I think the type of provider who cares enough to put SSDs in their shared hosting are less prone to oversell than those who have your average SATA or SAS RAID setup.
    The same could have been said about some providers who switched from SATA to SAS (because SAS was the new cool thing) and they started overselling with SAS. Why wouldn't they do the same with SSD?

    Anyway, I'm not saying SSD isn't better. I'm just saying a host using SSD doesn't automatically mean you're going to get better performance from them for various other reasons.
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  21. #21
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    HostXNow,

    Sorry but your claims are unwarranted. You cannot compare the transition from SATA to SAS to the transition from SAS (or any mechanical drive) to SSD. A 15k RPM SAS drive is about twice as fast as a 7.2k RPM SATA drive, but an SSD is hundreds of times faster in terms of IOPS. Are you saying the providers are going to hundreds of times the accounts per server? Of course not, they'd run out of CPU well before then. And that's the point, by using SSDs you generally eliminate I/O bottlenecks. End-users will definitely see a benefit.

    Not to mention, if relying purely on SSD based storage you'll have a higher cost per GB and lower capacity which means there is less room on the server to oversell and place more accounts.
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  22. #22
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    I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I'll try again...

    I have a clients site loading faster on our SAS setup than it did at their old provider who are using SSD drives. While the other provider uses SSD, and we use SAS, something else let the other provider down (overloaded CPU/bad network, who knows).

    AGAIN, I'm not saying SSD isn#t better. All good having SSD, but other things can let the setup down.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostXNow View Post
    I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I'll try again...

    I have a clients site loading faster on our SAS setup than it did at their old provider who are using SSD drives. While the other provider uses SSD, and we use SAS, something else let the other provider down (overloaded CPU/bad network, who knows).

    AGAIN, I'm not saying SSD isn#t better. All good having SSD, but other things can let the setup down.
    Isn't it a given that if you have a crappy CPU or bad network, service is going to be bad?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orien View Post
    Isn't it a given that if you have a crappy CPU or bad network, service is going to be bad?
    Pretty much.

    Grr, I may have gone a little off topic.

    Sorry guys.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ngky7 View Post
    I was thinking to get server for my new hosting business. However, Some people said it doesnt really help. Any suggestion? I am thinking to sell SSD Shared hosting at this moment. Saw a few reseller with SSD too.

    Thanks
    To answer the original post: it helps if whatever you're serving would push the limits of your HDD config. It's also a big selling point in some markets regardless of the actual performance value.

    If I were focusing on general shared hosting, though, I would stick with HDDs in most cases. Get some 15k RPM drives if you want capacity and speed.
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  26. #26
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    SATA II with Raid-1 / Raid-10 are still really good and perform still just as good as a SAS15k but overall times are changing and we are all hopping on the bandwagon.

    Personally tried SSD no real issues, are they heavily reliable, beg to differ at the moment but overall if anything I would stay on the SAS15k track.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    SATA II with Raid-1 / Raid-10 are still really good and perform still just as good as a SAS15k but overall times are changing and we are all hopping on the bandwagon.=
    Not sure what you mean. SATA II does not perform as well SAS 15K unless you're doing an unfair comparison of more than double SATA II drives vs the same amount of SAS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    Personally tried SSD no real issues, are they heavily reliable, beg to differ at the moment but overall if anything I would stay on the SAS15k track.
    In our fairly extensive testing we've seen no problems with reliability on the Intel drives. The newest Samsung drives seem promising too. SSD failures are often predictable and can result in a read-only state which means the data is still accessible, compared to a complete data loss on other drives. You can also use 'over-provisioning' to improve reliability (increased write tolerance) and performance of the drive.

    If you do the proper research and set things up properly, SSDs are great.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Not sure what you mean. SATA II does not perform as well SAS 15K unless you're doing an unfair comparison of more than double SATA II drives vs the same amount of SAS.



    In our fairly extensive testing we've seen no problems with reliability on the Intel drives. The newest Samsung drives seem promising too. SSD failures are often predictable and can result in a read-only state which means the data is still accessible, compared to a complete data loss on other drives. You can also use 'over-provisioning' to improve reliability (increased write tolerance) and performance of the drive.

    If you do the proper research and set things up properly, SSDs are great.
    Not sure why you aim to state that SSD is super awesome all the time, I think it has been established that it's surely better overall than previous disks such as SATA II and SAS15k's, I am not stipulating that SSD's are bad, we have used them and do use them within our setup as well - so we understand the aspects of it.

    I am simply saying that even if you are still using SATA II or SAS15k's today you will still find sturdy performance and reliability, in our time we never had issues with SATA II ever, nor did we encounter anything bad with SAS15k - we did encounter issues with SSD's once or twice and hence why I was stating that they may have a higher failure rate but that is based on our experience.

    I know you will come back with something classic to try and prove me wrong, but I am only stating from our own experiences.

  29. #29
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    thanks for this

  30. #30
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    I switch over to an SSD vps because my load usually came from mysql. I see a big change in performance (I run a vbulletin board).

    If you're going to go with an SSD host, backups backups backups. Even if you're in a RAIN environment, SSDs are prone to failure.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    I am simply saying that even if you are still using SATA II or SAS15k's today you will still find sturdy performance and reliability, in our time we never had issues with SATA II ever, nor did we encounter anything bad with SAS15k - we did encounter issues with SSD's once or twice and hence why I was stating that they may have a higher failure rate but that is based on our experience.
    Your experience is valid of course.

    Here's mine.

    Many times clients signup for a server with 2 sata drives for a mirrored array. Then they get popular/busy/whatever and they start pushing some serious IO spikes - several hundred or even thousands IOPS. The options are to upgrade to a larger raid array, pop in an ssd or pay someone to optimise their application so it stops hitting disk so bad. Often, the cheapest route is to pop in an SSD and those IO spikes are simply a non issue. We've done this so many times I've now lost count and every single time it's been a success.

    Is it a magic bullet? Hell no, usually the problem in site performance has NOTHING to do with server hardware. But often, it can be a cheap fix.

    Of course, if a client says "My site is slow" we don't just say "Buy an SSD" because that's ridiculous.

    We even use SSD's to power our whole shared hosting servers. Mostly it's overkill and done just for fun but it is nice to know that our servers will likely never encounter io issues.

    As for SSD reliability & failures? We've had less failures than I can count on my left hand. Maybe 3. 2 of those were with customer supplied OCZ drives. One Intel drive was DOA. I can't recall any other failures.

    In my experience, sas15k never solved anything and was always an overpriced solution for the pittance in extra performance you gained while sacrificing capacity. Whereas with SSD's, you are talking 100x improvement in performance, which is quite often worth the sacrifice in storage capacity.
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  32. #32
    lostmind - what capacity SSDs are you using for shared hosting?
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostmind View Post
    Your experience is valid of course.

    Here's mine.

    Many times clients signup for a server with 2 sata drives for a mirrored array. Then they get popular/busy/whatever and they start pushing some serious IO spikes - several hundred or even thousands IOPS. The options are to upgrade to a larger raid array, pop in an ssd or pay someone to optimise their application so it stops hitting disk so bad. Often, the cheapest route is to pop in an SSD and those IO spikes are simply a non issue. We've done this so many times I've now lost count and every single time it's been a success.

    Is it a magic bullet? Hell no, usually the problem in site performance has NOTHING to do with server hardware. But often, it can be a cheap fix.

    Of course, if a client says "My site is slow" we don't just say "Buy an SSD" because that's ridiculous.

    We even use SSD's to power our whole shared hosting servers. Mostly it's overkill and done just for fun but it is nice to know that our servers will likely never encounter io issues.

    As for SSD reliability & failures? We've had less failures than I can count on my left hand. Maybe 3. 2 of those were with customer supplied OCZ drives. One Intel drive was DOA. I can't recall any other failures.

    In my experience, sas15k never solved anything and was always an overpriced solution for the pittance in extra performance you gained while sacrificing capacity. Whereas with SSD's, you are talking 100x improvement in performance, which is quite often worth the sacrifice in storage capacity.
    Sounds good when you put it like that.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngky7 View Post
    I was thinking to get server for my new hosting business. However, Some people said it doesnt really help. Any suggestion? I am thinking to sell SSD Shared hosting at this moment. Saw a few reseller with SSD too.

    Thanks
    Tom's Hardware wrote an article about the reliability of SSD drives in data centers:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...rate,2923.html
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    Got to love Tom's Hardware and Anandtech.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyVox View Post
    I switch over to an SSD vps because my load usually came from mysql. I see a big change in performance (I run a vbulletin board).

    If you're going to go with an SSD host, backups backups backups. Even if you're in a RAIN environment, SSDs are prone to failure.
    Good SSDs are not prone to failure at all.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orien View Post
    Good SSDs are not prone to failure at all.
    If this is the case, I may need to test Clever Kite one day - even though prices are expensive (it's a given for SSD's) I am sure we can come to a possible agreement on it being sturdy.

    But I would give it a few months before I jump in with any conclusions and/or results.

    We will see, it is easier to say it will be "not prone to failure" but proving it's entirely different.
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  38. #38
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    You need to be careful with SSD's. Most hosts that offer cheap SSD deals are using Desktop grade drives in servers. These things burn out like mad, and need replacing a lot. There is a reason why a 100Gb server SSD costs £1000

    In the end you get what you pay for.
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  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Webhosts-uk View Post
    You need to be careful with SSD's. Most hosts that offer cheap SSD deals are using Desktop grade drives in servers. These things burn out like mad, and need replacing a lot. There is a reason why a 100Gb server SSD costs £1000

    In the end you get what you pay for.
    What providers do you know of that use desktop grade SSDs?

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  40. #40
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    I wouldn't like to name names....
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