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  1. #1

    Fluid Hosting: I should have reviewed them my first year

    But, how often does one take the time to review a service when it's working well? It's unfortunate, but the best hosts are probably the ones you won't hear about. Fluidhosting was one of those hosts for me during my first and second years. I remember they were really quick for shared hosting, offered sufficient space (but didn't overadvertise) and had a cool control panel. They may have even offered complimentary shell access at the time, but I don't remember; this was some time ago.

    They eventually became pretty slow and forced upgrades to benefit from new services, so I stopped using them, and I thought I'd cancelled. Still, I wouldn't have complained about them. Unfortunately, they just sent me to collections, so I'll oblige them with a review now.

    The good:
    They have an 800 number and someone who answers it!

    The bad:
    No matter how long you speak with that person; he insists an error related to cancellation is not Fluid's and refuses to pull a submission to collections back no matter how small the amount. He also likes to reiterate that your current point of contact should be collections.

    I spoke with Andrew, who was a pretty nice guy. He insisted that he would be as helpful he could be given whatever limitations he had to abide by (think: neutered dog). Basically, I thought I cancelled this account and was done with it. Once I'm at that point, I try not to waste my time with emails (or email addresses) associated with that account; I log in sparingly. I just happened to log in shortly after being sent off to collections, so I called.

    Now, the only way to cancel is by logging into your control panel. Given my belief the account was cancelled, I had no idea how I would have done this. Even if you call them, they would direct you to log into the control panel. They also insist that you must cancel your service by and within 30 days of renewal (which would be really uncomfortable for someone on a monthly plan). Since I thought I cancelled, none of this mattered to me until I checked an email account that first indicated my account had been renewed (perhaps to bill me again?) and then another email shortly afterwards that indicated it was cancelled again and I was being sent to collections. I was renewed for less than a day, and I didn't even know I was cancelled!

    After I realized there was no way that Andrew would be able to help me, I asked if I could speak with *his* supervisor. Of course, he let me know that he is a supervisor, and there was no one above him at the office. How convenient. He also reiterated that I should be having our discussion with collections. I'll forward collections a link to my review.

    I asked him if they had a method to pull submissions back from collections. I mean, he couldn't give me their number, so I couldn't call them anyways. Besides, I really didn't want to go through another call over this little account; I also don't want it to hit my credit. He said there's a way to pull submissions back from collections, but Fluid Hosting had to be in error. He then told me about the number of times they forwarded emails to me about the account...because web developers use the same email address for all their accounts, right? Again, I thought I was done with it. Since they did not receive a response or notice me logging in, they could have called, especially if they could spend the time to process my account through collections. I verified my account with my phone number after all.

    The problem with stuff like this is how scammy it is. You have cancel 30 days before the end of your service, and you have to be able to log into that same service to cancel after being verified by any number of questions. The verification process was out of control. This dude could practically steal my identity with the information I had to give him!

    All I can do is tell you that his name is Andrew and he's a supervisor of the highest level at the FluidHosting office he works at.

    I really just wanted to get rid of this service. I probably would have paid them if they called before sending me to collections.

    So now, my credit takes a potential hit because this company automates everything to the point of collections, and they get a crappy review. I wish I could say at least their service was still good, but there's a reason I stopped using it. I'm struggling a bit because Andrew told me that I can't log into the control panel anymore, so I don't even know if they just reactivated my account to bill me again then send me to collections. Shady practice.

    All I have now is a forthcoming bill from a company Andrew described as Cedar Financial. They sound green.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,908
    How much did they send you to collections for?

  3. #3
    Just $150, but that should be enough for a courtesy call or something.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    5,137
    Mr D,

    What a privilege it is for us to see customer review, positive or negative, even when that requires customers to signup on this forum just to give us the review. It is indeed unfortunate that customers often take things for granted when everything is working aright. If we had always received our deserved reviews, I am sure there would be much more positive reviews one can see on this forum.

    In any case, I see few distortions of facts in your review here to make this a fair review. So please allow me to address some of your written statements. In so doing, I hope I may provide the right context for the community here.

    First of all, contrary to what you claim, we have been improving our services, both in redundancy and performance. Thus, I will have to beg to differ that our services become slower. Have you ever reported this? I checked all the 13 tickets you had opened since 2004 and I do not even find any ticket created to report of any performance issue you had. In fact, from all of your tickets since 2004, there was not even a single ticket created in the year 2010 and 2011. Thirteen tickets over 7 years of service, and not a single ticket on the year 2010 and 2011. If any, this seems to indicate that our service to you was quite well?

    Second, can you inform me when we forced you to upgrade? Over 12 years of offering services, we have never once forced customer to upgrade unless if customers start to use more resources than allocated (specially in the context of shared hosting environment). Even in this case, we advice customer to upgrade (usually to VPS, etc) and when the abuse keeps going on, we simply disable the domain/subdomains to prevent further abuse. We never force customer to upgrade simply for monetary gain. In fact, as part of our business integrity, on multiple occasions we advice potential customers to go with our smaller plans than what they initially planned to sign up simply because we think that the smaller plan is sufficient for them. Checking your tickets history again, I do not see any ticket/communications where we request you to upgrade. If any, you created two tickets over the past 7 years requesting us to upgrade your account to another hosting plan. So I will be interested to see any reference when we forced you to upgrade.

    Third, I am not sure what you mean by our verification process being out of control. To cancel an account is simple. All you need to do was open a ticket from your control panel (or if you email blling@ or contact us we will give the instruction) and submit your cancellation request. We do this to verify that the account owner is the rightful person to request the account cancellation. The only verification process we do is to ensure that the cancellation request comes from the ticket opened from your control panel. There are no verification questions. We could certainly make the cancellation process more difficult, but certainly this process is far from being complicated and difficult and I am not sure why you would think any other way.

    Fourth, please keep in mind that there is no error with our cancellation procedure. The fact is, you never submitted your cancellation notice. Our billing system keeps sending you multiple notification: overdue balance notification (first day of account overdue), suspension warning notifications (11th and 21st day the account is overdue), account suspension notification (31st day the account is overdue), and then account termination notifications with warning about sending the overdue balance to collection (46th and 61st day the account is overdue). Your account was overdue since November 17th, and despite all the messages sent to you, unfortunately you have chosen to ignore them. Finally, our staff (Mr. Andrew) opened a ticket from you on March 22nd notifying you about the overdue balance one last time. Unfortunately, you have again ignored this ticket. It is to my understanding that Mr. Andrew has called you in person in an attempt to settle the overdue account. You were offered to pay for juts $15 (one month of hosting), despite the fact that the whole year of hosting was due ($150). And since we never received any response from you, your account was finally forwarded to collection. Thus, I am not sure why this surprises to you. You were given plenty of opportunity to resolve this, and we even have tried to work this out for your favor by offering you to settle for just 1/10 of the amount due. Yet, you have dismissed everything that we tried to do for you.

    Fifth, once the account is forwarded to collection, all debts need to be settled with the collection. This is the reason that Mr. Andrew told you that your account was no longer under our control. Your account, however, was still in suspended state. And despite it being suspended, you still have access to the control panel. You do not need to guess about this as a simple attempt to login will show that you still have access to the control panel. I have just tested this and it worked just fine, as expected.

    Last, please note that despite the fact that your account had been forwarded to collection, you were notified this morning in ticket #LGU-989394 that we had removed your account from collection. This was done per my instruction to Mr. Andrew since you have promised to make the $15 payment. Please note that once an account is forwarded to collection, we would still be responsible for the collection fee of 30% out of the $150 original debt. Thus, it is most likely we will pay the $45 to them to get rid of your have your account dropped. A loss, but something that we would do as a favor for you. And despite all that we have done for you, I am just surprised that you would still come forward with this review. Perhaps it would have been better if we simply let your account stay in collection, which I am seriously considering doing now. Do let me know if you would prefer us to put your account back into collection.

    I believe we have done everything that we can do to make things work in your favor.

    Best wishes with your new host. I am pretty certain all of us here would look forward to your frequent reviews of your new host. Fair reviews are always for the benefit of this beloved community.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - HSphere Shared and Reseller hosting - Now with HIGH AVAILABILITY
    Fluid VPS - Linux and Windows Virtuozzo VPS - Enterprise VPS with up to 2 GB guaranteed memory!
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  5. #5
    Mr F,

    I'm impressed with your committed response and truly appreciate that you took the time to write this up.

    I was frustrated because my conversation with your rep left me with the understanding that I had to go through collections and that I could not log into my control panel to review changes in my services. I did not know that any changes had been made since our conversation. I certainly didn't receive an email saying as much at the address where I receieved notice about being sent to collections.

    I'd like to reiterate that I didn't just ignore your notifications; rather, I believed that I was done with this account, so most of your suggestions are difficult to apply. I will reset my password to log into your control panel and resolve any billing obligations before I terminate my service.

    I'm glad that you've made improvements too. Honestly, I didn't struggle much with your service, but I noticed increased latency, so I just switched to another server. It wasn't a big deal to me though. I don't think that the site I initially maintained remained on your server past 2007/2008 (possibly earlier; I mean, I don't rememeber every site hosted on whatever server). I then used it for minor testing purposes...I didn't even know I still had service with you for much longer than that. I thought I cancelled.

    My main point in the write up--and I did create a name specifically to make this criticism--was the difficulty with resolving my issue with your rep, who I did mention is actually a nice guy. I recognize his hands were tied (to a degree), but I also couldn't get him to take me to someone with more authority. I'm sure you have plenty of developers who use your services and may relegate related communications to a specific account. You had plenty of information about me, and I verified my name, street address (at that time), phone number, account number, method of payment (actually, I couldn't remember that, so I provided something else)...

    I mentioned several times that I would write this review during our conversation due to the difficulty I had negotiating this with your rep. I understand that you feel you're not mistaken, but there is something to the fact that everytime you tried to communicate with me, you used the same method: one that I was clearly not responsive to, and before attempting another method, my account was thrust into collections. I'm not a big client of yours--not with the services I subsribe to on your servers--but since I could not resolve my issue with your rep, the only opportunity that I had to hedge my dissatisfaction was here...and I made clear that I would beforehand. Accounts sent to collections damage one's credit like these reviews can damage companies' reputations, and I tend not to idly allow an entity that couldn't have someone make a phone call before sending me to collections damage my credit without retaliation, which involves informing others what they could potentially experience. Given my warning, I knew the other party, who expressly indicated that I no longer had access to my control panel, had received my communication.

    Finally, it is true that you never forced me to upgrade anything. I didn't say that though. To be fair, I didn't say it very clearly either. When I said, "forced upgrades to benefit from new services," I was referring to upgrading to a newer serviceplan to benefit from a higher cap on bandwidth, and whatever additional services may have been associated with the new plan. It wasn't easily transferrable. To be fairer, I'm not certain that's your policy, but I think it is. I'm sure you'll set the record straight though.

    Look, if it's any help, the whole time I had service (or thought I had service) with fluid hosting, I felt confident that I was with a company far superior to any host you could find at somewhere like webhostingsearch. So, fluidhosting, imo, is WAY better than: ipage, fatcow, inmotion, hostmonster, etc.

    That said, I was enormously dissatisfied with the result of a discussion with someone who seemed reasonable, indicating that he would do whatever he could to help me while really just trying to pass me off to a third party agency to deal with it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that was his fault at all; that could just be how he's trained to deal with customers who have been placed in collections, but I wasn't ready to stand for it today. Again, I thought he was a nice guy. He was polite and generally patient, and if I was still with your company, I would feel comfortable knowing that he could pick up a call if had an issue (so long as it wasn't collections related).

    I'll log into the control panel this weekend and resolve whatever issues I can on my side. Thanks for your time.

    Regards,
    Mr D.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Smade's Inn
    Posts
    1,021
    A vary narrowly polite discourse between client and host. Can we ever hope for more? I appreciate Mr. D's problem with email addresses, as I myself have some odd 2000 in total but two that get checked and the rest are burn addresses. I can see as well Fluid's side.

    Handled with manners. People take note.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Modesto California
    Posts
    6,366
    Correct me if I am wrong, but did your web hosting company essentially send you to collections for services not rendered?

  8. #8
    Still trying to figure this out. Dave, I can't log into the control panel, and when I reset my password, I do not receive an email--at least not at the account where I received the collections notification--not in spam or otherwise. Would you be able to send me a new password at the email address where the collections notice was sent?
    po....[email protected]

    Also, collections at Cedar Financial is calling me.

  9. #9
    I just paid the $45 service fee to Cedar Financial. Thanks for the favors...

  10. #10
    Are you kidding me? I just received this message this morning. I already paid collections for this account!

    BTW, it looks like you're about to send me to collections for a negative balance. I paid $45 to Cedar financial, not $150. Just wanted to cover the collections expense you mentioned. I'd take the extra for all the hassle, but really, I'll just be happy if you expunge me from your database and leave me alone.

    I mentioned, I can't log into your control panel. When I've tried to reset my password in the past, it doesn't email me at the same address where I receive the message below. If I could log into your control panel, I would, but I don't have a password, and I'm not anonymous.

    Dave, I get that you can respond to a thread to defend your company, but if you have like half a minute, for goodness sake, fix this so I stop getting these collections notices. I never even used the service for the time you're billing me, and this has become the second time that I thought I was done with this account.

    ___________________
    PS: This is a computer generated message. Please do not reply to this email directly since your reply may not be attended to. Please send your reply to the appropriate contact listed below.

    Dear ___________,

    Despite our numerous attempts to contact you regarding your overdue account, your account is still left delinquent as of today, Apr 12, 2012. This email is our final attempt to resolve this delinquent account.

    Even though your account has been suspended at this time, in accordance to our Terms Of Service (http://www.fluidhosting.com/tos.php), you are still responsible to pay all overdue balance. A delinquent account needs to be settled within 30 days after it is overdue. Failure to do so will cause your account to be permanently terminated/deleted. We will neither be responsible for any data loss nor be obligated to provide any backup archival once an account is terminated/deleted.

    Furthermore, as our final attempt to collect the overdue balance, your delinquent account will be forwarded to a collection agency. Please note that this will severely impact your credit history. Please also note that the collections agency, at their own discretion may add an additional fee of 30% to 40% to your outstanding balance to cover all collecting costs, legal costs and expenses.

    Payment for this account can be made through your account control panel. Your account control panel can be accesses through https://cp.fluidhosting.com/. Below are your account details:

    ___________
    ___________
    ___________
    Balance: - $150.00

    Select 'Billing Profile' under 'Billing' and choose a payment method for full details. If you set your billing payment using credit card, once you updated your billing info, the system will charge your credit card for the outstanding balance.

    If you have created a credit card profile in the past, please make sure that the credit card information (expiration date, billing address, and et cetera) are updated as attempts to charge your credit card have been declined. You may also enter a new credit card. Paypal payment can also be made directly from your control panel.

    If you require an invoice to process before you can make a payment, you can obtain a printed copy of your account statement by logging into the control panel and clicking 'Billing' Tab > 'Billing Statements'. Select the appropriate invoice and click 'Print'.

    If you believe this is a billing mistake, feel free to contact us by opening a ticket should you have further questions and concerns. To open a ticket please login to your control panel at https://cp.fluidhosting.com/ and click "New Trouble Ticket."

    This will be the last and final communication you receive from us. The next communication may come from a collections agency. Thank you for your attention and your prompt resolution into this matter.

    Sincerely,
    Billing Department
    Fluid Hosting, LLC

  11. #11
    I'm sure you did try and cancel. I've tried twice and they are now trying to get me to pay them money. They sent me to collections over a grande total of 15 bucks (and are now tacking on 5 bucks a month in collection agency fees). I find it fascinating that people seem to have such trouble canceling with such an easy system. I mean I've managed to cancel other accounts for other things easily enough I guess I'm just too stupid. Fun fact Cedar Financial the company they use isn't licensed in Connecticut, the state where Fluidhosting is based.

    I'd link to where you can find the list but I can't since this is a new account.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,830
    If you tried to cancel and they sent it to collections, tell the collections company you dispute the debt and they will refer it back to the client. Just because it's been sent to collections doesn't mean you have to pay it.

    I think the big issue here is as previously mentioned, it sounds like these collections notices as for services that are suspended during the billing period being collected and if that is the case, that is a very very shady practise and definately not something a reputable company should be doing. I would dispute it based on the host not providing services promised, so they broke the contract as well.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    5,137
    If somebody has cancelled prior to the account renewal date, we will cancel the account. Nobody is sent to collection if they have cancelled the account, properly. All of the people who we sent to collections are those who did not send any cancellation notice, sent the cancellation notice after the account was renewed and, in either case, refused to work with us to settle the debt. Some other customers are sent to collection because they disputed the charges despite the fact service was already delivered. Once customer is sent to collection, we stopped allowing customer access to the control panel. All debts must be settled with collection agent.

    For what it is worth, we always try to work with customers before we sent the debts to collection reasonably. In fact, collection is our last effort. When customers refuses to work, abusive to our staffs, make legal threats then we will simply let the collection handle it. It is unfortunate since debtors never realize that it much easier and much cheaper to settle--and we often settle as low as one month, even if you are under long term contract and even if you sent your collection after your renewal date--than after the account is forwarded to collection.

    The fact that an account is forwarded to collection means customers have refused to work with us.

    @devpoetic: I actually replied to you in error. I had thought you another customer of us, but in fact it was for a different account. In any case, if you already settle with the collection, you can ignore other billing notification emails you received from us. We simply have not closed your account. Once we receive confirmation from the collection, we will close the account.

    @Duck and Cover: I am pretty sure who you are. Not using your account does not constitute, expressly or not, of your intention to cancel the account. In fact, we do not have any cancellation ticket from you. Unfortunately you have refused to work with us. After receiving legal threats from you I have instructed our staff to stop making any further correspondence with you in private or in public. This will be our last correspondence with you in public as well. Please continue working with the collection agent. Thank you.
    Last edited by FHDave; 04-14-2012 at 04:04 PM.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - HSphere Shared and Reseller hosting - Now with HIGH AVAILABILITY
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    5,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Wullie View Post
    I think the big issue here is as previously mentioned, it sounds like these collections notices as for services that are suspended during the billing period being collected and if that is the case, that is a very very shady practise and definately not something a reputable company should be doing. I would dispute it based on the host not providing services promised, so they broke the contract as well.
    We are not the only company, even the only hosting company, that sent debtors to collection.

    We give grace period for 30 days before the account was suspended. During this grace period, service was already rendered to customer, whether or not customer is actually using the account. For customer under monthly contract, we simply forward the one month debt to the collection (again, this is after debtors refuse to work with us). For customer under longer contract, we will try to work with debtors to settle for as little as one month. When debtors refuse to work with us, we will simply forward the whole contract amount to collection. The collection itself may impose their fees (which we also stated on our TOS).

    When debtors under longer contract paid the full or partial debt, per their own choice, we may resume service and let debtors to continue using the account up to the amount of payment made (minus the first month when the account was still active and minus any activation fee).

    Thus, we never break our contract. It is usually customers who break their contractual obligation.

    Thank you.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - HSphere Shared and Reseller hosting - Now with HIGH AVAILABILITY
    Fluid VPS - Linux and Windows Virtuozzo VPS - Enterprise VPS with up to 2 GB guaranteed memory!
    Get your N+1 High Availability Enterprise Cloud
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wullie View Post
    If you tried to cancel and they sent it to collections, tell the collections company you dispute the debt and they will refer it back to the client. Just because it's been sent to collections doesn't mean you have to pay it.

    I think the big issue here is as previously mentioned, it sounds like these collections notices as for services that are suspended during the billing period being collected and if that is the case, that is a very very shady practise and definately not something a reputable company should be doing. I would dispute it based on the host not providing services promised, so they broke the contract as well.
    Oh yeah they aren't getting a dime from me. I rather bring it to small claims if I have to based on there illegal collection practices. I posted here more as a warning for anyone even thinking about this company. Odd that two people who are probably both reasonably tech savy have such a difficult time canceling.


    I like how I'm blamed for apparently not being smart enough to "properly" cancel. You seem more interested in protecting your image without actually being a respectable company. Pretty sad really. I'd go with another company perhaps one who won't send you to collections over 15 bucks and has a system in which you can actually cancel. Also they won't send you a bill to your mail address before they bring in collection, it's really disrespectful.
    Last edited by Duck and Cover; 04-14-2012 at 04:36 PM.

  16. #16
    Oh yeah and I never agreed to their terms of service. They bought steadfast my agreement was with them. I'm just assuming they're using those terms of service but if they're not that's wrong too.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    5,137
    We will use ex-Steadfast's TOS for ex-Steadfast's customers. That's how fair we are.

    Cancellation is as easy as opening a ticket from the control panel or by contacting billing. Nothing else more fancy than this is required.

    Have a nice day.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,830
    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    If somebody has cancelled prior to the account renewal date, we will cancel the account. Nobody is sent to collection if they have cancelled the account, properly. All of the people who we sent to collections are those who did not send any cancellation notice, sent the cancellation notice after the account was renewed and, in either case, refused to work with us to settle the debt. Some other customers are sent to collection because they disputed the charges despite the fact service was already delivered. Once customer is sent to collection, we stopped allowing customer access to the control panel. All debts must be settled with collection agent.

    For what it is worth, we always try to work with customers before we sent the debts to collection reasonably. In fact, collection is our last effort. When customers refuses to work, abusive to our staffs, make legal threats then we will simply let the collection handle it. It is unfortunate since debtors never realize that it much easier and much cheaper to settle--and we often settle as low as one month, even if you are under long term contract and even if you sent your collection after your renewal date--than after the account is forwarded to collection.

    The fact that an account is forwarded to collection means customers have refused to work with us.
    But you are admitting if they signup for an annual account and don't pay within 28 days, you send them to collections and suspend the account. Sending them for a months service is fine, but what you are doing is double penalising someone and sending them to collections for services you are not providing. If the customer pays after 3 months, what have you charged them for? They didn't have the service for those 3 months you have charged them for. That in my eyes is a very shady practise.

    You are providing them with 28 days unpaid service so why is the collections for the full year?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    We will use ex-Steadfast's TOS for ex-Steadfast's customers. That's how fair we are.

    Cancellation is as easy as opening a ticket from the control panel or by contacting billing. Nothing else more fancy than this is required.

    Have a nice day.
    That sure sounds easy and I'm sure I've done something along those lines at least twice now. But I'll be damned if the account remains opened. Weird. I just must be doing something wrong or perhaps I'm just dreaming that I canceled. That must be it I really wanted to keep paying for webhosting that I didn't use just in case I needed another host! Also yeah you probably should use a collection agency that is licensed in Connecticut you know what with wanting to be a legal upstanding company and all. My day would be much nicer if I didn't have to deal with this ****.

    Fair? That's how fair you are? No that's what you do because if you changed it people would have the right to cancel. Don't you dare act like you're doing it out of the goodness of your hearts.
    Last edited by Duck and Cover; 04-14-2012 at 05:08 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Duck and Cover View Post
    Oh yeah and I never agreed to their terms of service. They bought steadfast my agreement was with them. I'm just assuming they're using those terms of service but if they're not that's wrong too.
    Can you please specify the steps and method you had taken to cancel the service? When and how was this cancellation request submitted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wullie View Post
    You are providing them with 28 days unpaid service so why is the collections for the full year?
    That is how long term contracts/agreements work. That is what will happen in all cases. The person paying is in violation of the contract/agreement so service is suspended, but the user is still responsible for the entire value of the contract/agreement. That is how contracts work and I have rarely seen one work otherwise, this is normally clearly outlined in the terms, etc. In almost all cases you're getting a benefit for the length of the term, additional benefits, a lower rate, etc. if you aren't actually held to the length terms, then what is the point for giving those benefits? This is similar to the $200+ penalty you'd see from your cell phone carrier for leaving the contract early. You're not getting any additional service for that $200+ either.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 04-14-2012 at 05:13 PM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  21. #21
    You honestly expect me to remember what I did a year ago let alone a couple+ (I don't remember when I originally tried to cancel) years ago to cancel? Don't be absurd. I'm sure whatever I did made sense to me at the time and I thought it was over with until I get harassing calls from the collection agency. You tried charging to a card that was expired for a service I did not want and made efforts to close. I still would love to know why you're using an unlicensed (In Connecticut) collection agency.
    Last edited by Duck and Cover; 04-14-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  22. #22
    For those curious but lazy http://www.ct.gov/dob/cwp/view.asp?a=2233&q=297872 .

    The following Master Service Agreement (MSA and hereinafter referred to as the "Agreement") is made between Fluid Hosting LLC, a Connecticut based company (hereinafter referred to as "Fluid Hosting") and you (referred to as "Customer")

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    That is how long term contracts/agreements work. That is what will happen in all cases. The person paying is in violation of the contract/agreement so service is suspended, but the user is still responsible for the entire value of the contract/agreement. That is how contracts work and I have rarely seen one work otherwise, this is normally clearly outlined in the terms, etc. In almost all cases you're getting a benefit for the length of the term, additional benefits, a lower rate, etc. if you aren't actually held to the length terms, then what is the point for giving those benefits? This is similar to the $200+ penalty you'd see from your cell phone carrier for leaving the contract early. You're not getting any additional service for that $200+ either.
    Sorry but you are comparing apples to oranges. You should be giving the user to collections for the price they would have paid for the time the services were available to them.

    Remember you are not charging them a penalty fee, you are expecting them to pay the full price for the period you have removed their service for. If you want them to pay for the full year, leave their hosting available while you try and get the money. Cancel them and you cancel the payments, simple.

    If you remove their service by suspending them, you are removing the cost associated with your providing that account so what exactly are you charging them for?

    The law might allow you to do otherwise in some countries but it doesn't make it any less of a very shady practise.

  24. #24
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    Thats a little silly to keep the service alive when its not paid for.

    This sort of sounds like a clear cut breach of contract type case.

    Agreement was made that a service would be provided for X amount.


    If someone came to you to do a 50k website job and they paid 10K up front 10K the next month and the rest in three months ( the time for development )

    They could not pay for the second month of 10K would you keep developing for that client for another 3 months with no pay and no assurance you would receive the rest?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Ro View Post
    Thats a little silly to keep the service alive when its not paid for.

    This sort of sounds like a clear cut breach of contract type case.

    Agreement was made that a service would be provided for X amount.


    If someone came to you to do a 50k website job and they paid 10K up front 10K the next month and the rest in three months ( the time for development )

    They could not pay for the second month of 10K would you keep developing for that client for another 3 months with no pay and no assurance you would receive the rest?
    Again, apples != oranges.

    Providing service for a month to an annual client doesn't require them to spend any more to this client than if the client was monthly and left after a month. So why exactly should they charge more to this client than if they were only using them for a month?

    You can charge a penalty fee but you don't charge the full amount for the year even though they do not have any services being provided during that time.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck and Cover View Post
    You honestly expect me to remember what I did a year ago let alone a couple+ (I don't remember when I originally tried to cancel) years ago to cancel? Don't be absurd. I'm sure whatever I did made sense to me at the time and I thought it was over with until I get harassing calls from the collection agency. You tried charging to a card that was expired for a service I did not want and made efforts to close. I still would love to know why you're using an unlicensed (In Connecticut) collection agency.
    No, no one is expecting you to REMEMBER. People are simply expecting you to do a simple search through your email history. If you emailed them cancelation, then you would have that email in your sent folder, and if you canceled through their ticket system it would show in your account history with them and you'd have an email in your inbox from when the ticket was created (likely at least). If you have no evidence, have no idea how/when you did cancel, I really have no idea how to defend you.

    My point in getting involved with this was assuring that the customers we had transfered were being properly taken care of. We had decided to do business with Fluid Hosting because of their long history of providing high quality and very fair services. if they were not in-fact treating people fairly then I wanted to see what I could do to help. Here it seems evident that they are willing to be fair, handling the issue with the OP fairly and promptly. On the other hand, you have provided no indication you ever came close to following the outlined cancelation policy/terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wullie View Post
    Sorry but you are comparing apples to oranges. You should be giving the user to collections for the price they would have paid for the time the services were available to them.

    Remember you are not charging them a penalty fee, you are expecting them to pay the full price for the period you have removed their service for. If you want them to pay for the full year, leave their hosting available while you try and get the money. Cancel them and you cancel the payments, simple.

    If you remove their service by suspending them, you are removing the cost associated with your providing that account so what exactly are you charging them for?

    The law might allow you to do otherwise in some countries but it doesn't make it any less of a very shady practise.
    The remainder of the contract IS the penalty fee, it IS the same thing. What you are proposing is ridiculous and not how ANY business or industry works. These things are generally outlined right in the terms/contract agreed to.

    If you lease a car for 3 years, and you just return/cancel it one day after 6 months you're still going to be liable for the payments through the end of your 3 year lease, or whatever the specific terms of your agreement are. If you just stop paying, they're not going to just let you keep the car. If they just let you return it under whatever terms you want, they're losing money, as they're giving you the lease based on depreciation over 3 years, not 6 months and depreciation over the first 6 months is much sharper than over 3 years.

    So what you're saying is, that the party agreeing to a term contract has no obligation to actually abide by that term? If I were to sell someone a $1000 server on a 1 year contract, I purchase it custom for them, and charge them $200/mo on that one year contract. You're saying that if they just stop paying after 2 months I either A) Have to continue giving them that service for free. OR B) Need to let them just cancel/get out of their agreement even though it results in a significant loss for me? Term lengths in agreements exist for a reason... Based on your assessment, I have no/little marginal cost moving forward in providing that service, the server is already purchased, thus I should just be taking the loss.
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  27. #27
    As far as the original ancient email goes I have the original account open email,and that's pretty much it. Although my email seems to have a mysterious void where I got 0 emails. Now I do have a ticket I sent 9/20/10 asking for my accounts information but apparently that was too late to cancel or something I don't know I don't even know how I noticed that account was still active. No mail or emails to show me that the account was still even open. The kind of company that would send you to collections over $15 without even a call or mail is simply not a good company at all. Although having customer service on a Saturday is nice so there's that. Too bad talking to them amounts in a brick wall of YOU OWE MONEY YOU NEVER CANCELED. (Also threatening legal action causes them to ignore you completely to let Cedar Financial handle it which is mildly amusing)
    Last edited by Duck and Cover; 04-14-2012 at 07:45 PM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    The remainder of the contract IS the penalty fee, it IS the same thing. What you are proposing is ridiculous and not how ANY business or industry works. These things are generally outlined right in the terms/contract agreed to.

    If you lease a car for 3 years, and you just return/cancel it one day after 6 months you're still going to be liable for the payments through the end of your 3 year lease, or whatever the specific terms of your agreement are. If you just stop paying, they're not going to just let you keep the car. If they just let you return it under whatever terms you want, they're losing money, as they're giving you the lease based on depreciation over 3 years, not 6 months and depreciation over the first 6 months is much sharper than over 3 years.

    So what you're saying is, that the party agreeing to a term contract has no obligation to actually abide by that term? If I were to sell someone a $1000 server on a 1 year contract, I purchase it custom for them, and charge them $200/mo on that one year contract. You're saying that if they just stop paying after 2 months I either A) Have to continue giving them that service for free. OR B) Need to let them just cancel/get out of their agreement even though it results in a significant loss for me? Term lengths in agreements exist for a reason... Based on your assessment, I have no/little marginal cost moving forward in providing that service, the server is already purchased, thus I should just be taking the loss.
    It's funny that I keep getting comparisions that all contain actual physical products rather than an account on a virtual host. If you stop paying for a car, the car is not worth as much after depreciation so that is why you pay for the full amount. A mobile phone service you pay more for because you pay for the actual physical device you hold. A server can't be used for someone else while it sits there suspended while you try and get money. This is not the same as clicking a button to suspend an account on a server.

    In your case, you are not providing anything if they stop using and paying for your services. You send them to collections for unused periods that you are not providing.

    The user didn't ask for renewal other than a rolling contract, they didn't contact you when you emailed them, you never tried to contact them any other way. You simply sent to to collections based on autorenew for a pityful amount and then wonder why threads such as this appear here?

    It would have been no skin off your back to just cancel the service after 28 days and drop the account, did you really lose anything? Using collections without even attempting to contact the user in any other way is just shady business and to be honest, not a great advert for the business.

    Note, I have nothing to gain by posting this, at this time I don't have any affiliation with any hosting company, I just don't like hosting companies that think because they are online they shouldn't even attempt to pick up a phone before sending a user to collections and I don't see where you incurred a years worth of costs while providing no service to this user after the 28 days.

    Those heavy-handed tactics are one of the things that give hosting companies a bad name.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck and Cover View Post
    (Also threatening legal action causes them to ignore you completely to let Cedar Financial handle it which is mildly amusing)
    That is how most companies would handle legal threats. If you're going to take legal action have your attorney send them notice and then their attorney will respond.

    So you didn't send them a cancelation email, if your email history doesn't show it, so can you login to your account and check your ticket history there? Is anything showing there? You can understand though that if they never got a cancelation request they would not cancel the account, correct? Show a cancelation request and I'm certain they can help you there. Can someone from FluidHosting pro-actively check through the ticket history to see if there is anything resembling a cancelation request?
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wullie View Post
    It's funny that I keep getting comparisions that all contain actual physical products rather than an account on a virtual host. If you stop paying for a car, the car is not worth as much after depreciation so that is why you pay for the full amount. A mobile phone service you pay more for because you pay for the actual physical device you hold. A server can't be used for someone else while it sits there suspended while you try and get money. This is not the same as clicking a button to suspend an account on a server.

    In your case, you are not providing anything if they stop using and paying for your services. You send them to collections for unused periods that you are not providing.

    The user didn't ask for renewal other than a rolling contract, they didn't contact you when you emailed them, you never tried to contact them any other way. You simply sent to to collections based on autorenew for a pityful amount and then wonder why threads such as this appear here?

    It would have been no skin off your back to just cancel the service after 28 days and drop the account, did you really lose anything? Using collections without even attempting to contact the user in any other way is just shady business and to be honest, not a great advert for the business.

    Note, I have nothing to gain by posting this, at this time I don't have any affiliation with any hosting company, I just don't like hosting companies that think because they are online they shouldn't even attempt to pick up a phone before sending a user to collections and I don't see where you incurred a years worth of costs while providing no service to this user after the 28 days.

    Those heavy-handed tactics are one of the things that give hosting companies a bad name.
    What is the YOU for in here?? I had nothing to do with this specific case, I haven't sent anyone to collections, or done any of the things you're complaining about... I'm just here trying to help get a fair resolution worked out.

    So you are saying 1) There is no cost in providing shared hosting services. and 2) There should be no penalty for breach of a civil contract and that such contracts have no bearing.

    Well, I can't really convince someone of those points, so we'll just have to agree to disagree...
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  31. #31
    You're asking for proof that I never received. Was I suppose to be taking screenshots just to be sure you'd cancel my account? You realize most companies would probably take my word for it instead you've attempted to shift blame onto me again and again. You're pretty much accusing me of being a deadbeat. Terrible customer service.

    Who wants to see an image of my email when I search for steadfast?

    http://imgur.com/pKWgA There's the opening email for the account, and that's about it. Clearly I deleted all the requests for payment I was sent. Yep clearly.

    It's obvious that you guys bully those who thought they canceled into paying because 1. You know they won't have proof. 2. Who is going to risk their credit score over such a small amount? 3. Legal action tends to cost more than what people owe so you never really worry about that.

    2226522 is my account number, well let me rephrase that. It is the account number you refuse to let me do away with I haven't really considered this an account of mine for ages.


    I'm putting too much thought into this tell me when you can explain why you use a collection agency that isn't licensed where you are based. Thanks.

  32. #32
    I'm confused, Fluid hosting makes no attempt to email? No attempt to call? No attempt to mail? They just wait a couple years and send you to collections?

    Edit:

    This is Fluid's cancellation procedure. Needlessly complicated.

    https://support.fluidhosting.com/ind...&kbarticleid=1
    Last edited by myheaditches; 04-14-2012 at 11:33 PM.

  33. #33
    They... apparently have two different articles on how to cancel? Why?

    https://support.fluidhosting.com/ind...barticleid=195

    Additionally, you are based in Connecticut, use a colocation in New Jersey, your mailing address is in Pennsylvania, and your domain WHOIS is in Pennsylvania? Is the information you provided to ICANN incorrect?
    Last edited by myheaditches; 04-14-2012 at 11:55 PM.

  34. #34
    Last, please note that despite the fact that your account had been forwarded to collection, you were notified this morning in ticket #LGU-989394 that we had removed your account from collection. This was done per my instruction to Mr. Andrew since you have promised to make the $15 payment. Please note that once an account is forwarded to collection, we would still be responsible for the collection fee of 30% out of the $150 original debt. Thus, it is most likely we will pay the $45 to them to get rid of your have your account dropped. A loss, but something that we would do as a favor for you. And despite all that we have done for you, I am just surprised that you would still come forward with this review. Perhaps it would have been better if we simply let your account stay in collection, which I am seriously considering doing now.
    I find it surprising that a company would publicly discuss consideration to renege on an agreement as retribution to a review.

  35. #35
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    @Karl, sorry to see you being dragged here. Unfortunately, there is actually very little we can do with somebody who refused to be reasoned with. Appreciate your effort and support here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wullie View Post
    Providing service for a month to an annual client doesn't require them to spend any more to this client than if the client was monthly and left after a month. So why exactly should they charge more to this client than if they were only using them for a month?
    The client is under a yearly contract. And since no cancellation notice was ever renewed, the yearly contract was renewed. Client choose not to pay for the renewal, even claiming that since he was no longer using the account then he should not be responsible to pay for the account. Not using your account does not constitute a cancellation intent, nor it is a proper cancellation procedure. Regardless, per the Terms of Service, client is still under the the contractual obligation.

    Since he is an ex-Steadfast customer, the account was suspended after it is overdue by 14 days. There is no reason why we should continue providing service when client has no intention to pay. The suspension, however, does not free client for the contractual obligation. After multiple email notifications sent to client notifying of the overdue account, suspension warnings, and collection warnings have been ignored, we simply forward the account to collection. If client settle the debt, then (as I have explained to you on page one of this thread) if client wishes, we will simply resume services for client for the remaining credit on the payment, less, in this case, the 14 days where the service was provided and any account re-activation fees.

    In short, we don't just demand a year of payment for 14 days of service delivered. Customer is under contractual obligation and once client pays the debt, we will resume/deliver the service again for the remaining contract term/payment credit (again, less any service already provided prior to the suspension and any account re-activation fee).

    Please keep in mind that all this time, client data is still residing on our servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by myheaditches
    I'm confused, Fluid hosting makes no attempt to email? No attempt to call? No attempt to mail? They just wait a couple years and send you to collections?
    Multiple email notifications have been sent to customers. For ex-Steadfast customers:

    First account overdue notification was sent two days after the account was overdue.
    First and second account suspension warning notifications were sent on the 7th and 9th day the account was overdue, warning client that the account would be suspended on the 14th day the account is overdue.

    Account suspended on the 14th day.

    First and second account deletion and collection warning notifications were sent on the 24th and 34th day the account was overdue.

    After 60 days the account was overdue without any attempt from customer to resolve the debt, we simply forward the account to collection.

    Quote Originally Posted by myheaditches
    This is Fluid's cancellation procedure. Needlessly complicated.
    Not sure how that cancellation process is complicated. We do not cancel an account with negative balance. All negative balance must be settled prior to the account being cancelled; we require customer to open a ticket from the control panel to verify that the account cancellation notice is coming from the account owner; the 30 day cancellation requirement does not apply for this particular customer since they are an ex-Steadfast customer and we use ex-Steadfast TOS for the cancellation procedure (for our own customer, as long as customer sent it their cancellation notice before the account is renewed we usually waive the 30 day cancellation notice, depending on the contract term/length).

    Quote Originally Posted by myheaditches
    They... apparently have two different articles on how to cancel? Why?
    The two articles are put on different section on our KB. First KB article was for shared hosting, the other for VPS customers. Since you only do "search" the article placement may not be obvious. Regardless, the cancellation procedure is the same. But thanks for your input, we can certainly make improvement to the KB article.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Ro View Post
    Thats a little silly to keep the service alive when its not paid for.

    This sort of sounds like a clear cut breach of contract type case.

    Agreement was made that a service would be provided for X amount.


    If someone came to you to do a 50k website job and they paid 10K up front 10K the next month and the rest in three months ( the time for development )

    They could not pay for the second month of 10K would you keep developing for that client for another 3 months with no pay and no assurance you would receive the rest?
    We have done this before, not for websites, but where we manufactured alot of components, only to receive a call that it was cancelled (for whatever reasons) instead of charging them $50,000 (or whatever) we worked out the costs incurred so far, and charged them accordingly, something like $1000.

    I would do the same with a website, take a deposit, if the guy cancels for whatever reasons, i would bill them for time spent and current costs incurred, not the entire contract, for hosting? really if its shared hosting, the real cost is just pennies, charge them what they used and let them go.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck and Cover View Post
    You're asking for proof that I never received. Was I suppose to be taking screenshots just to be sure you'd cancel my account? You realize most companies would probably take my word for it instead you've attempted to shift blame onto me again and again. You're pretty much accusing me of being a deadbeat. Terrible customer service.

    Who wants to see an image of my email when I search for steadfast?

    http://imgur.com/pKWgA There's the opening email for the account, and that's about it. Clearly I deleted all the requests for payment I was sent. Yep clearly.

    It's obvious that you guys bully those who thought they canceled into paying because 1. You know they won't have proof. 2. Who is going to risk their credit score over such a small amount? 3. Legal action tends to cost more than what people owe so you never really worry about that.

    2226522 is my account number, well let me rephrase that. It is the account number you refuse to let me do away with I haven't really considered this an account of mine for ages.


    I'm putting too much thought into this tell me when you can explain why you use a collection agency that isn't licensed where you are based. Thanks.
    OK, I ask when this was cancelled, no answer, I ask how it was cancelled, no answer. I am trying to help, but you're not giving me anything to go off of. We have generally found that if there is an outright refusal to provide simple information, they're not telling the truth. I am not saying that is the case here, but statistically, those are the odds. If you cancelled multiple years ago then that would have been before your account was transfer to Fluid Hosting and I want to make sure we get that resolved.

    To note, this seemed to be a response to me, as I was the one requesting the data, but then I am also certainly not the person who sent you to collections, etc. I am thus confused exactly as to what you're responding to.

    Also, in this day and age when disk space for email is effectively unlimited, why do you delete anything (as you clearly do since you're missing a TON of emails that would have been sent over that time frame) that isn't spam? Personally, I have all of the email I have sent and received since ~2002, though some are archived on different drives when we changed mail servers, etc. That history is how you can demonstrate and prove all sorts of things. There is significant value in keeping the information and effectively no cost to keep it. Simply producing emails where cancellation was requested, certain services were clarified, etc. have saved me some significant time and effort over the years.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 04-15-2012 at 12:38 AM.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_matt View Post
    We have done this before, not for websites, but where we manufactured alot of components, only to receive a call that it was cancelled (for whatever reasons) instead of charging them $50,000 (or whatever) we worked out the costs incurred so far, and charged them accordingly, something like $1000.

    I would do the same with a website, take a deposit, if the guy cancels for whatever reasons, i would bill them for time spent and current costs incurred, not the entire contract, for hosting? really if its shared hosting, the real cost is just pennies, charge them what they used and let them go.
    I would just like to point out, that IS exactly what Fluid Hosting offered. That they would simply pay for the month that was already used, but got no response. If the party in your story had just outrightly refused to pay even the $1000 how would you proceed? If you send them to collections just for the $1000 you subtract the collections fees, they make a settlement for less than the total amount and you've gotten a significant loss. You start at trying to collect the remainder of the contract and you're much more likely to settle, still getting the $1k you wanted. When things get to the point of collections it is generally because negotiations have broken down completely, thus the person sending them to collections is trying to recoup as much of the cost as possible. When you send someone to collections for an amount, you aren't expecting to collect the full amount, that is simply a starting point for negotiations.
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  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    OK, I ask when this was cancelled, no answer, I ask how it was cancelled, no answer. I am trying to help, but you're not giving me anything to go off of. We have generally found that if there is an outright refusal to provide simple information, they're not telling the truth. I am not saying that is the case here, but statistically, those are the odds. If you cancelled multiple years ago then that would have been before your account was transfer to Fluid Hosting and I want to make sure we get that resolved.

    To note, this seemed to be a response to me, as I was the one requesting the data, but then I am also certainly not the person who sent you to collections, etc. I am thus confused exactly as to what you're responding to.

    Also, in this day and age when disk space for email is effectively unlimited, why do you delete anything (as you clearly do since you're missing a TON of emails that would have been sent over that time frame) that isn't spam? Personally, I have all of the email I have sent and received since ~2002, though some are archived on different drives when we changed mail servers, etc. That history is how you can demonstrate and prove all sorts of things. There is significant value in keeping the information and effectively no cost to keep it. Simply producing emails where cancellation was requested, certain services were clarified, etc. have saved me some significant time and effort over the years.
    You asked for proof. I don't have proof why would I have proof? You think I remember the process I used to cancel? I vaguely remember your asinine CANCEL ticket system but that's about it. You seem to think I'm just lying and really wanted that account to remain open. That's obviously not the case because of the lack of any activity on the case. Now a normal company would see that and probably just give me the benefit of a doubt but no not you guys. I told you I don't have those emails, because they don't really exist. The only email I do have is my requesting the account information so that I could cancel (the second time). Oh and assuming your customers are lying? Yeah classy. I said I don't have anything yet you keep demanding I show proof? I was never given any proof and since it's your system it's your fault.
    Last edited by Duck and Cover; 04-15-2012 at 12:48 AM.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    @Karl, sorry to see you being dragged here. Unfortunately, there is actually very little we can do with somebody who refused to be reasoned with. Appreciate your effort and support here.



    The client is under a yearly contract. And since no cancellation notice was ever renewed, the yearly contract was renewed. Client choose not to pay for the renewal, even claiming that since he was no longer using the account then he should not be responsible to pay for the account. Not using your account does not constitute a cancellation intent, nor it is a proper cancellation procedure. Regardless, per the Terms of Service, client is still under the the contractual obligation.

    Since he is an ex-Steadfast customer, the account was suspended after it is overdue by 14 days. There is no reason why we should continue providing service when client has no intention to pay. The suspension, however, does not free client for the contractual obligation. After multiple email notifications sent to client notifying of the overdue account, suspension warnings, and collection warnings have been ignored, we simply forward the account to collection. If client settle the debt, then (as I have explained to you on page one of this thread) if client wishes, we will simply resume services for client for the remaining credit on the payment, less, in this case, the 14 days where the service was provided and any account re-activation fees.

    In short, we don't just demand a year of payment for 14 days of service delivered. Customer is under contractual obligation and once client pays the debt, we will resume/deliver the service again for the remaining contract term/payment credit (again, less any service already provided prior to the suspension and any account re-activation fee).

    Please keep in mind that all this time, client data is still residing on our servers.



    Multiple email notifications have been sent to customers. For ex-Steadfast customers:

    First account overdue notification was sent two days after the account was overdue.
    First and second account suspension warning notifications were sent on the 7th and 9th day the account was overdue, warning client that the account would be suspended on the 14th day the account is overdue.

    Account suspended on the 14th day.

    First and second account deletion and collection warning notifications were sent on the 24th and 34th day the account was overdue.

    After 60 days the account was overdue without any attempt from customer to resolve the debt, we simply forward the account to collection.



    Not sure how that cancellation process is complicated. We do not cancel an account with negative balance. All negative balance must be settled prior to the account being cancelled; we require customer to open a ticket from the control panel to verify that the account cancellation notice is coming from the account owner; the 30 day cancellation requirement does not apply for this particular customer since they are an ex-Steadfast customer and we use ex-Steadfast TOS for the cancellation procedure (for our own customer, as long as customer sent it their cancellation notice before the account is renewed we usually waive the 30 day cancellation notice, depending on the contract term/length).



    The two articles are put on different section on our KB. First KB article was for shared hosting, the other for VPS customers. Since you only do "search" the article placement may not be obvious. Regardless, the cancellation procedure is the same. But thanks for your input, we can certainly make improvement to the KB article.
    I've checked all but my old college email, not a thing. No mails, no phone calls, I don't think you actually were interested in contacting me. If you were you would have sent a mail called me on the phone and presto! You would have gotten me. Although I still wouldn't have paid you anything since I don't owe anything.

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