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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Unhappy *sigh*...help. VPS or dedicated?

    I am an Administrator (more like a SuperMod really) on a fan forum site. The owner of the site has a dedicated host server runs about about 20 other sites. However, the one that I work on is the most active. From what I can tell from conversations with her (the owner), the site I work on is using too much resources, and now needs a separate host. I have offered to purchase host service for this one forum. She insists that only a dedicated server will do, but I think a managed VPS would be more than sufficient.

    These are the specs for her current server:

    intel Core i7 920
    12 gb of ram
    1000GB SATA - harddrive #1
    1000GB SATA - harddrive #2


    She wants my help, but keeps a lot of information "close to the vest". Also, English is not her primary language so that makes for a few problems as well. So, as far as resources that the forum currently uses, I have no idea. We don't have high traffic. Although we have over 1600 members, there are no more than 60-70 active at one time. We're not gamers, we don't stream anything. I don't really have a clue what is killing the resources. Maybe she doesn't really know either.

    What I think I need, that will be sufficient, is a managed VPS server, with cPanel, 1 to 2 gb of RAM, 2 X 250GB SATA disks (RAID 1? I dunno), 1 TB of bandwidth, free setup, 24/7/365 support. I only need 1 IP really. My budget is $100 or less, and I need something in the US.

    I am totally new to this, so forgive the lack of information. I will try to answer whatever questions anyone has.

    The owner and I have been arguing over this all week, meanwhile the forum is slowly decaying. Soon, and I mean like any minute now, the forum will be completely dead. So...help?

    P.S. - A firewall and some system of security would be good too.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    You have a lot of resources with your current server. I'm wondering where the bottleneck is. Before recommending a hosting solution I think we need to figure out why the current server isn't meeting your needs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Apache Junction, AZ
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    DuraMater,

    Without knowing what is causing the current resource issues you may just being moving the problem to its own server. With what you described you should not need anything crazy, but if there are issues anything you move it to will continue to have the same issues. You and the site owner really need to first discover what the issue is. What level of access do you have to the current server for troubleshooting?
    Mike

  4. #4
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    I agree, ajonate, but that is precisely the trouble that I have been having, as far as getting that information from the owner. She said that the forum I am on is using too much memory. I find that hard to believe, but then again, she runs over 20 other sites besides the one I work on.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_GoDaddy View Post
    DuraMater,

    Without knowing what is causing the current resource issues you may just being moving the problem to its own server. With what you described you should not need anything crazy, but if there are issues anything you move it to will continue to have the same issues. You and the site owner really need to first discover what the issue is. What level of access do you have to the current server for troubleshooting?
    You make a very valid point. I have no access unfortunately to the current server. She keeps a tight grip, and I sort of understand why. But, now that she wants my help, I wish she would loosen up. So, it does not sound like a memory issue to you either?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Apache Junction, AZ
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    DuraMater,

    Quote Originally Posted by DuraMater View Post
    She said that the forum I am on is using too much memory.
    How much memory is too much in this case? Is it the database using the bulk of the memory or something else?
    Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Miami, Florida
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    Hello,
    I dont know the current use, however I would not advise going with cPanel if it is just 1 site
    Keith I Myers
    KMyers.me The rantings of a lunatic
    Join me on Technical.chat

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Albany, NY
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    Your questions will actually help me get more information from her. As I said, I am totally new to this. Unfortunately, her time zone is 12 hours ahead of mine, so I will have to ask her these pointed questions when she gets up.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Apache Junction, AZ
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    DuraMater,

    Having a starting point with what to ask will not just help you figure out what you need as far as hardware but should help her with getting you the right information. Keep us posted and we can help more as you know more!
    Mike

  10. #10
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    Thanks so much, everyone. Believe me, I will be coming back with as much info as I can get. I really do need your help. I have spent a lot of time floating around this forum, and it really is the best!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuraMater View Post
    I agree, ajonate, but that is precisely the trouble that I have been having, as far as getting that information from the owner. She said that the forum I am on is using too much memory. I find that hard to believe, but then again, she runs over 20 other sites besides the one I work on.
    It could be memory if the database has become huge. Do you regularly prune stale threads, or do you have the forum setup for self-pruning?

  12. #12
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    Well, we archive old threads just to keep the boards fresh and current, but we don't normally delete anything. The forum has been running since Sept. 2007. So, maybe it is the database?
    Last edited by DuraMater; 03-23-2012 at 03:40 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuraMater View Post
    Well, we archive old threads just to keep the forums fresh and current, but we don't normally delete anything. The forum has been running since Sept. 2007. So, maybe it is the database?
    I think that the forum database almost certainly the culprit. Look into deleting older content.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajonate View Post
    I think that the forum database almost certainly the culprit. Look into deleting older content.
    I will absolutely suggest that to the owner. It is a touchy subject since the members value their post counts, but they may have to adjust their attitudes on that. By the way, if it matters, we use vBulletin software for the forum, ver 4.0.8. We have over 300,000 posts. So many of these types of forums pride themselves on post count...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    I think she (the owner) is just guessing. "That site is busy, so it MUST be the problem!" It's horrible logic, but it happens quite often.

    If you knew the other sites on the server, you could at least formulate a guess of the real resource abuser based on content and external site traffic measurers (guessers like Alexa or Quantcast).

    Pruning and archiving doesn't really do anything on resources until you're running a mega-board.

    Your plan for a good VPS is fine.

    Arguing with the current admin may just end up getting you booted as mod. A better option may be for you to take over the site as mod, by way of putting it on another server (VPS).

    It would help if I knew the site, and could see if any obvious resource hogs were there -- chat boxes, Flash objects, etc.
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  16. #16
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    The owner runs 20 fansites, each with a forum attached. The one I work for, baleheads.com, is attached to the christian-bale.org site. If you go to christian-bale.org, you will see a panel on the right showing the other "Family Sites" that she hosts. As far as baleheads.com goes, there are no chat boxes, a few minor flash objects (e.g., a countdown timer, a clock..I think that's it).

  17. #17
    Why would having a large history of posts, threads, etc. consume memory? Perhaps indexes are larger but that would simply degrade performance. In other words, if you have 100MB set aside for indexes in MySQL (key_buffer_size), then as indexes get larger, it wouldn't be able to keep as many in memory, so it'd be pushing some out as it reads in new ones. Slower performance, but not more memory.

    Otherwise, more data just equals more disk space.

    Unless I'm missing something.

    I would say that without knowing your usage, any sizing is a guess.

    One of the beauties of VPS is that you can upsize if you find out you have miscalculated.
    raindog308
    LowEndTalk administrator, LowEndBox editor

  18. #18
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    Who is managing the server? Better suggest her to hire another competent server admin to audit the server and provide second opinion and if needed optimise the server.

    Also if the owner is ready to spend on a dedicated why it should bother you, a VPS is still sharing of resources.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinayak_Sharma View Post
    Who is managing the server? Better suggest her to hire another competent server admin to audit the server and provide second opinion and if needed optimise the server.

    Also if the owner is ready to spend on a dedicated why it should bother you, a VPS is still sharing of resources.
    On the first point, I agree. I question the competency of her host server manager.

    On the second point, I am the one preparing to spend money for the new host server for the one forum. But, she is fighting me on the decision to go with a VPS server.

    P.S. - Off to make and consume some dinner now. Thanks everyone, I will be back later!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuraMater View Post
    T baleheads.com, christian-bale.org
    Something must be fubar with the server. Neither site loads for me.
    I'd question the ability of whoever is "managing" that server.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog308 View Post
    Why would having a large history of posts, threads, etc. consume memory?
    I"m not exactly sure, but I used to administrate a forum with a large subscribership and it seemed to occupy progressively larger amounts of memory as the database grew. Pruning reversed that trend.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Something must be fubar with the server. Neither site loads for me.
    I'd question the ability of whoever is "managing" that server.
    Uhm, yeah fubar describes the situation pretty well, and it is getting worse. As I said in my original post, any minute now, and it will all go "belly up". I don't give a rat's behind about her other sites, I just want to host baleheads.com. And, supposedly, we had agreed on that point.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Something must be fubar with the server. Neither site loads for me.
    I'd question the ability of whoever is "managing" that server.
    baleheads.com is returning a database error now. Evidently mysqld is down. That's where you need to concentrate your efforts.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuraMater View Post
    Uhm, yeah fubar describes the situation pretty well, and it is getting worse. As I said in my original post, any minute now, and it will all go "belly up". I don't give a rat's behind about her other sites, I just want to host baleheads.com. And, supposedly, we had agreed on that point.
    With vBulletin you have the choice of database storage engines. By default vBulletin uses myisam. The vBulletin people recommend going to innodb for installations with heavy usage. Do you know if that's been done?

    https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/entr...oDB-Conversion

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajonate View Post
    With vBulletin you have the choice of database storage engines. By default vBulletin uses myisam. The vBulletin people recommend going to innodb for installations with heavy usage. Do you know if that's been done?

    https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/entr...oDB-Conversion
    Thanks for the link. I don't know if it has been done or not, but I am guessing that it has not been done. You can be sure that I will be sharing that link with the owner, and find out if she, or anyone, has ever done this obviously important conversion.

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