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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodmark View Post
    So, rightly few have pointed out and infact today a layman would take a lot longer to understand IAAS and PAAS, but they need to understand their cloud computing provider's infrastructure which most fail to do so. But as we get clearer, we will be able to figure out who is the most known cloud software, orchestrators and the others who are not there in the mixed list.
    To take a crack at clarifying cloud options for Platform as a Service (PaaS) and Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS):


    PaaS options are the 'shared hosting' cloud solution. With PaaS, the hosting provider takes care of the operating system and the underlying hardware. Providing you with a platform to launch your web applications such as Apache+PHP, Ruby on Rails, or .NET. The end user has no access to the operating system, and the hosting company manages the virtualized servers that deliver that platform you use.

    IaaS are the 'dedicated server' cloud solution. These options will generally not allow control the underlying physical hardware on the servers, but would allow you control over items such as the virtual network, the operating system, load balancing, the applications, and the resources (hard drive size and RAM) you assign to the servers in the cloud you build.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_GoDaddy View Post
    To take a crack at clarifying cloud options for Platform as a Service (PaaS) and Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS):


    PaaS options are the 'shared hosting' cloud solution. With PaaS, the hosting provider takes care of the operating system and the underlying hardware. Providing you with a platform to launch your web applications such as Apache+PHP, Ruby on Rails, or .NET. The end user has no access to the operating system, and the hosting company manages the virtualized servers that deliver that platform you use.

    IaaS are the 'dedicated server' cloud solution. These options will generally not allow control the underlying physical hardware on the servers, but would allow you control over items such as the virtual network, the operating system, load balancing, the applications, and the resources (hard drive size and RAM) you assign to the servers in the cloud you build.
    Thanks for sharing the information with us, what do you think about hyper-visor and orchestrators that i mentioned earlier ?

  3. #28
    Citrix Cloudstack is what we are working with and we love it. eNlight Cloud is not a platform it's merely a service provided by Eukhost. I agree this does sound like an advertisement thread.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodmark View Post
    Thanks for sharing the information with us, what do you think about hyper-visor and orchestrators that i mentioned earlier ?
    Here: http://www.datacentermap.com/blog/cl...tware-389.html

    This is a good list of all the orchestrators that are out there used to provide an IaaS based cloud computing solution, that a provider might use.

    Since you mentioned eNlight and GoDaddy on your list, you still need to read up on cloud computing yourself before you attempt clarifying it here.

    GoDaddy, eNlight and Amazon utilize software that manages their cloud computing infrastructure (the orchestrator). It doesn't mean you are going to list them under this category since none are available to the general public (even if it costs $). These orchestrators can be simple interfaces that connect to the virtualization software's API (I suspect eNlight cloud) or as complex as GoDaddy's and Amazon's.

    Another point: This confusion is what makes profit for those unscrupulous companies. Check out Parallels Virtuozzo, they now have a 'cloud' tag in its name for no apparent reason, but the software has remained the same since even before.

    Everyone wants to make money with the 'cloud'

  5. #30

    *

    Quote Originally Posted by bodmark View Post
    So, it's basically heavy to run the VM or how does it work ?
    My bad bodmark. XenDesktop is a desktop virtualization and VDI answer delivering a Windows desktop ASAP and on-demand to users anywhere and anytime. It is supposed to provide a pretty cool user experiences while delivering either a single app or an entire desktop securely and straight forward. Nothing like a VNC or RPD, but a true end user desktop platform which is brought to the user via/over the internet.

    The program just weighs in at 17.5 gigs and just for you, I am downloading it right now and should have an update in a day or so.

    Added pummmffff: I am rocking this install on Windows Server 8 since I live on the "Bleeding Edge".

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by umbeehosting View Post
    Citrix Cloudstack is what we are working with and we love it. eNlight Cloud is not a platform it's merely a service provided by Eukhost. I agree this does sound like an advertisement thread.
    It's good to know that you use Citrix Cloudstack, have you faced any issues with them ?

    I guess, you offer hosting in UK and some host does offer eNlight cloud service just like VMware or Xen-based Hyper-Visor software to offer their cloud offerings. I guess you need to read the thread. There are many cloud computing platforms and service offerings and which one should use is the question.

    Like for e.g., you use Citrix Cloudstack for providing hosting in the UK, but this does not mean that Citrix Cloudstack has been used by other hosting companies. Perhaps, Citrix Cloudstack is much better than eNlight or VMware, we are not too sure. It is all about a company offering the best cloud computing platform to their customers and if they have not considered the right platform, they just might read this thread and consider Citrix Cloudstack instead of any other platforms or service offerings.

    I idea is not to promote any kind of specific service, it is to understand which one stands on the top of the list and why based on experiences shared by many hosting providers. It is an informative thread, rather than an advertisement thread. So, if you can share more information about Citrix Cloudstack and it's advantages that you have noticed technically, we would definitely like to know...

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteTech View Post
    Here: http://www.datacentermap.com/blog/cl...tware-389.html

    This is a good list of all the orchestrators that are out there used to provide an IaaS based cloud computing solution, that a provider might use.

    Since you mentioned eNlight and GoDaddy on your list, you still need to read up on cloud computing yourself before you attempt clarifying it here.

    GoDaddy, eNlight and Amazon utilize software that manages their cloud computing infrastructure (the orchestrator). It doesn't mean you are going to list them under this category since none are available to the general public (even if it costs $). These orchestrators can be simple interfaces that connect to the virtualization software's API (I suspect eNlight cloud) or as complex as GoDaddy's and Amazon's.

    Another point: This confusion is what makes profit for those unscrupulous companies. Check out Parallels Virtuozzo, they now have a 'cloud' tag in its name for no apparent reason, but the software has remained the same since even before.

    Everyone wants to make money with the 'cloud'
    I agree. Thanks for the link

    I understand about Virtuozzo, we have used them earlier and i don't think the software is going to change with them, unless they have made some changes recently.

    Exactly, everyone wants to make money with the cloud, what about the customers whose actual business is on that cloud ?

    There are many new hosting companies and also some kiddie hosts around to offer cloud computing, but which one stands of the best in the list from the point of view of the hosting provider and the customers ? What are your views on it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VaporCreations View Post
    My bad bodmark. XenDesktop is a desktop virtualization and VDI answer delivering a Windows desktop ASAP and on-demand to users anywhere and anytime. It is supposed to provide a pretty cool user experiences while delivering either a single app or an entire desktop securely and straight forward. Nothing like a VNC or RPD, but a true end user desktop platform which is brought to the user via/over the internet.

    The program just weighs in at 17.5 gigs and just for you, I am downloading it right now and should have an update in a day or so.

    Added pummmffff: I am rocking this install on Windows Server 8 since I live on the "Bleeding Edge".
    Do let us know when you have an update

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by bodmark View Post
    It's good to know that you use Citrix Cloudstack, have you faced any issues with them ?

    I guess, you offer hosting in UK and some host does offer eNlight cloud service just like VMware or Xen-based Hyper-Visor software to offer their cloud offerings. I guess you need to read the thread. There are many cloud computing platforms and service offerings and which one should use is the question.

    Like for e.g., you use Citrix Cloudstack for providing hosting in the UK, but this does not mean that Citrix Cloudstack has been used by other hosting companies. Perhaps, Citrix Cloudstack is much better than eNlight or VMware, we are not too sure. It is all about a company offering the best cloud computing platform to their customers and if they have not considered the right platform, they just might read this thread and consider Citrix Cloudstack instead of any other platforms or service offerings.

    I idea is not to promote any kind of specific service, it is to understand which one stands on the top of the list and why based on experiences shared by many hosting providers. It is an informative thread, rather than an advertisement thread. So, if you can share more information about Citrix Cloudstack and it's advantages that you have noticed technically, we would definitely like to know...



    I agree. Thanks for the link

    I understand about Virtuozzo, we have used them earlier and i don't think the software is going to change with them, unless they have made some changes recently.

    Exactly, everyone wants to make money with the cloud, what about the customers whose actual business is on that cloud ?

    There are many new hosting companies and also some kiddie hosts around to offer cloud computing, but which one stands of the best in the list from the point of view of the hosting provider and the customers ? What are your views on it ?

    Cloudstack is not easy to implement but once you get it going and customize it, it's great.

    You can't compare eNlight and Cloudstack eNlight is a service offered by EUKhost and is not a cloud orchestration platform at all.

    The underlying hypervisor is merely an enabler for cloud computing the hard part is automation and self-provisioning and billing.

    Bodhost please stop trying to promote "eNlight" as some fancy cloud offering because it's not. We all know that Bodhost and Eukhost are the same company so why continue to try and mislead the consumer?
    Last edited by UmbeeHosting; 04-06-2012 at 06:56 PM.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bodmark View Post
    Cloud computing is known today and there are multiple technologies, but we need to further see if we can compare them to know which cloud computing technology is more reliable and what are the advantages and disadvantages of them.

    There are few that we already now, but are they reliable ?

    1. VMware
    2. eNlight
    3. Applogic
    4. Xen-based cloud platform
    5. Amazon Web Services
    6. Force.com
    7. Appistry Cloud Computing Middleware
    8. Microsoft Live Mesh
    9. AppNexus
    10. Flexiscale
    11. Google App Engine
    12. Terremark Enterprise Cloud

    Has anyone used them before and how reliable are they ?
    Let me help:

    1. VMware = Hypervisor

    2. eNlight = Cloud service with Xenserver as hypervisor

    3. Applogic = Cloud Orchestration platform

    4. Xen-based cloud platform = Xenserver is just a hypervisor

    5. Amazon Web Services = Cloud service, I think they use Xenserver too.

    6. Force.com = not sure

    7. Appistry Cloud Computing Middleware = not sure

    8. Microsoft Live Mesh = not sure

    9. AppNexus = not sure

    10. Flexiscale = not sure

    11. Google App Engine = Applications in the Cloud not IAAS

    12. Terremark Enterprise Cloud = VMware based cloud offering probably leveraging vCloud Director.

    I need to do more research but it seems odd that you are trying to comparing services that are miles apart in terms sectors. I would repost this comparing Infrastructure-as-a-service providers in order to not confuse the thread.
    Last edited by UmbeeHosting; 04-06-2012 at 07:13 PM.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Techark View Post
    This whole thread smells of an advertisement.

    Is GoDaddy a platform or a hosting service?
    Is eNlight a platform or a hosting service?

    Can we all list our could hosting services in this table of platforms hosting services and hosting providers you seem to be building?
    Is it any surprise you are using VmWare as your platform?
    Completely agree this tread is a waste of our time.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by umbeehosting View Post
    Cloudstack is not easy to implement but once you get it going and customize it, it's great.

    You can't compare eNlight and Cloudstack eNlight is a service offered by EUKhost and is not a cloud orchestration platform at all.

    The underlying hypervisor is merely an enabler for cloud computing the hard part is automation and self-provisioning and billing.

    Bodhost please stop trying to promote "eNlight" as some fancy cloud offering because it's not. We all know that Bodhost and Eukhost are the same company so why continue to try and mislead the consumer?
    Honestly, if i had to promote our cloud computing services, i would rather be promoting our cloud offerings and not the platform that we use, it's basic sense.

    With us, we use multiple platforms that includes Applogic, Onapp, VMware and eNlight as per the requirements of our customer. So, that doesn't mean we will be promoting all the platforms, but like for e.g., you should be telling us how do you deploy your Cloudstack platform for your customers and is it beneficial ?

    If this is still an advertisement thread for you, please do not reply with any suggestions on Cloudstack platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by umbeehosting View Post
    Let me help:

    1. VMware = Hypervisor

    2. eNlight = Cloud service with Xenserver as hypervisor

    3. Applogic = Cloud Orchestration platform

    4. Xen-based cloud platform = Xenserver is just a hypervisor

    5. Amazon Web Services = Cloud service, I think they use Xenserver too.

    6. Force.com = not sure

    7. Appistry Cloud Computing Middleware = not sure

    8. Microsoft Live Mesh = not sure

    9. AppNexus = not sure

    10. Flexiscale = not sure

    11. Google App Engine = Applications in the Cloud not IAAS

    12. Terremark Enterprise Cloud = VMware based cloud offering probably leveraging vCloud Director.

    I need to do more research but it seems odd that you are trying to comparing services that are miles apart in terms sectors. I would repost this comparing Infrastructure-as-a-service providers in order to not confuse the thread.
    Ok, please post with comparing all IAAS providers, we would definitely like to see our ideal list there.

    Quote Originally Posted by umbeehosting View Post
    Completely agree this tread is a waste of our time.
    It caught your attention for the ideal IAAS providers list as per you.

    Ofcourse please do not include eNlight or VMware or any other as a service platform in your list if you still think they are an advertisement by a hosting company.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by bodmark View Post
    Honestly, if i had to promote our cloud computing services, i would rather be promoting our cloud offerings and not the platform that we use, it's basic sense.

    With us, we use multiple platforms that includes Applogic, Onapp, VMware and eNlight as per the requirements of our customer. So, that doesn't mean we will be promoting all the platforms, but like for e.g., you should be telling us how do you deploy your Cloudstack platform for your customers and is it beneficial ?

    If this is still an advertisement thread for you, please do not reply with any suggestions on Cloudstack platform.



    Ok, please post with comparing all IAAS providers, we would definitely like to see our ideal list there.



    It caught your attention for the ideal IAAS providers list as per you.

    Ofcourse please do not include eNlight or VMware or any other as a service platform in your list if you still think they are an advertisement by a hosting company.

    I'm afraid I'm struggling to understand you. Good luck with it!

  12. #37
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    Canada
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    Split it up bodmark. You're making a list that's akin to listing everything with wheels: including cars, trains, bicycles, and trucks, and then asking which vehicle is the best.

    Without putting some bounds on this at all, or even providing anything resembling a use-case, you're wasting everyone's time. So don't be surprised when the few people who have have bothered to reply are starting to get annoyed.

    Asking which one is best is a failed experiment, since if there already is an universal best, we'd all be using it.

    ------

    For the novice cloud user stumbling on this post, focus on what you want to do first. An example of a priority list would be:

    1. I need an application that can survive multiple DC downtimes.
    2. I need cost efficiency on outbound bandwidth.
    3. I need a quick interlink between DCs required for database slaves.
    4. I want business continuity.
    5. I want ease of use for my developers.

    Be realistic. Otherwise this exercise is wasted.

    Then look at your development and operations resources. What is the level of your in-house expertise? How much of orchestration and low-level management do you need to offload? That will help determine where on the IaaS to PaaS scale you sit. If you want the provider to do the server orchestration, then there's no need to think about hypervisors. You don't think about the SAE screw-types used in your car when you just want to drive. If you're building a custom roadster, then yes you do need the knowledge.

    With your approach to cloud selected, match the remaining providers in that segment towards your needs and wants. It's going to be rare to get a comprehensive cross-comparison list for a lot of things. For example, while multi-DC reliability can be a bullet point you see often, the real test is whether the providers' approach to multi-DC is synergistic with your application needs. Sometimes, they might have just meant a machine reboots 10 mins later at another DC. Was that compatible with what you were thinking? Did you need real-time reliability instead? Like all things, the devil is in the details and you likely need one of your engineers to sit down with them and prod them about their infrastructure to properly critique whether its a good fit for you.

  13. #38
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    Mar 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    Split it up bodmark. You're making a list that's akin to listing everything with wheels: including cars, trains, bicycles, and trucks, and then asking which vehicle is the best.

    Without putting some bounds on this at all, or even providing anything resembling a use-case, you're wasting everyone's time. So don't be surprised when the few people who have have bothered to reply are starting to get annoyed.

    Asking which one is best is a failed experiment, since if there already is an universal best, we'd all be using it.

    ------

    For the novice cloud user stumbling on this post, focus on what you want to do first. An example of a priority list would be:

    1. I need an application that can survive multiple DC downtimes.
    2. I need cost efficiency on outbound bandwidth.
    3. I need a quick interlink between DCs required for database slaves.
    4. I want business continuity.
    5. I want ease of use for my developers.

    Be realistic. Otherwise this exercise is wasted.

    Then look at your development and operations resources. What is the level of your in-house expertise? How much of orchestration and low-level management do you need to offload? That will help determine where on the IaaS to PaaS scale you sit. If you want the provider to do the server orchestration, then there's no need to think about hypervisors. You don't think about the SAE screw-types used in your car when you just want to drive. If you're building a custom roadster, then yes you do need the knowledge.

    With your approach to cloud selected, match the remaining providers in that segment towards your needs and wants. It's going to be rare to get a comprehensive cross-comparison list for a lot of things. For example, while multi-DC reliability can be a bullet point you see often, the real test is whether the providers' approach to multi-DC is synergistic with your application needs. Sometimes, they might have just meant a machine reboots 10 mins later at another DC. Was that compatible with what you were thinking? Did you need real-time reliability instead? Like all things, the devil is in the details and you likely need one of your engineers to sit down with them and prod them about their infrastructure to properly critique whether its a good fit for you.

    Hi Tchen,

    Thanks for your reply and valuable input.

    I have understood there has been a lot of confusion in the thread and cloud computing comparision and probably, that's why few people have been bothered to reply as probably as annoyed or calculated as an advertisement thread.

    So, to make this experiment of this thread of the right comparision would definitely include a list of your priority :

    1. I need an application that can survive multiple DC downtimes.
    2. I need cost efficiency on outbound bandwidth.
    3. I need a quick interlink between DCs required for database slaves.
    4. I want business continuity.
    5. I want ease of use for my developers.

    Yes, let's be realistic and analyze the confusion of the comparision and i must have included other cloud computing service platforms and orchetrators which cannot be compared with each other. Honestly, i have shared a common confusion that lies around with many novice cloud users.

    On the basis of your development and operation resource analysis questions which are :

    1. What is the level of your in-house expertise?
    2. How much of orchestration and low-level management do you need to offload?
    3. Do you require IaaS or PaaS scale
    4. Considering, we would like to build a custom roadster, then which would would we go for ? ( In IaaS or PaaS )
    5. Multiple DC reliability of IaaS or PaaS ?

    On basis of the above, which would you consider the best known for IaaS or PaaS ? What's your opinion ?

  14. #39
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    I might be wrong, but GoDaddy cloud is KVM-based.
    Amazon Web Service' cloud is XEN-based.

    Perhaps platforms should not be mixed with virtualization/container technologies.

  15. #40
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    Huh? I came here hoping to be enlighten with some interesting conversations about Cloud technology and I'm leaving more confused seriously wondering why all this talk about GoDaddy?! I'm all for Cloud Orchestration my favorite and noone has even talked about AppLogic or OnApp at all in this thread... what is the gameplan here? What are we trying to achieve I confess I'm damn confused...

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterbo View Post
    I might be wrong, but GoDaddy cloud is KVM-based.
    Amazon Web Service' cloud is XEN-based.

    Perhaps platforms should not be mixed with virtualization/container technologies.
    masterbo, this information from early should help explain how Go Daddy's Cloud Server's are setup a bit better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_GoDaddy View Post
    Go Daddy Cloud Servers (Virtual DataCenter) uses the Xen Hypervisor as its background platform. In conjunction, we use a combination of Citrix's solution and Go Daddy developed code for orchestration. The management interface is a custom infrastructure Go Daddy built.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_GoDaddy View Post
    masterbo, this information from early should help explain how Go Daddy's Cloud Server's are setup a bit better.
    Thanks, Mike, for clarifying. Now I know it's also Xen-based.

    Could you perhaps comment on the high IOPS ratings I measured while benchmarking a GoDaddy cloud server?

    I mean, whether IOPS are expected to be that high?
    Thanks in advance.

  18. #43
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    masterbo,
    Sure, it may take me a day or so to ask all the right people on that!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_GoDaddy View Post
    masterbo,
    Sure, it may take me a day or so to ask all the right people on that!
    np, no one's in a hurry.

    I came to a conclusion that GoDaddy offers now really robust and interesting hosting solution and would be glad to remain with that opinion.

    If possible, I would prefer public comments from techs - not for private use only.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterbo View Post
    If possible, I would prefer public comments from techs - not for private use only.
    I replied on the other thread to this instead of in a PM to you. I hope I answered you completely and if you have any other questions please feel free to ask!

  21. #46
    Commensus is a service that I have used before. Very useful

  22. #47
    I have used Amazon Web Services in the past just to store some backups of a VPS and they are really good and quiet fast

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