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  1. #1

    Arrow Dedicated Servers + 1:1 unshared unmetered unlimited uncapped bandwidth

    We are open for offerings about dedicated servers and bandwidth:

    Servers: not i3-stuff dated 1922, but at least serious double Quads Intel Xeon minimum, 24Gb+ mem, decent RAID config (net 500Gb), 50 at start, space to grow to 200.

    DC: We expect the basics to be in order (double ring, full back-up, etc)

    Engineering: Please provide nr of engineers available, including their experience levels.

    Expansion: We'll grow. Please convince us to what level you can expand within 24 hours after a call.

    Ownership/Management: The ownership and management is pretty important to us. Please provide details.

    SLA: 2 hours replacement, 24/7 service

    Hotspares: We love to have 10% hot servers in the rack as a spare, pls provide details what you're willing to do.

    Bandwidth: 30Gbit, unshared, unmetered, 1:1, uncapped, not oversold!

    Connectivity: at least 4 tier-1 partners

    Locations: Europe, USA and Asia

    Price: in either EUR or USD please, per month.


    Please provide your offer in the same lay-out as used above. Any surprise afterwards, even the smallest, forces us to immediately stop talking (nomatter the size of the surprise).


    Kind regards,
    Puk

  2. #2
    It is against forum rules for people to make offers.

    Do you need the same setup in all 3 locations mentioned, or just 1 of 3?
    Do you want the 30Gbit of bandwidth shared between the servers?
    This will be an expensive endeavour - maybe 80,000EUR/mo.

    With requirments like this you probably want to go to one of the bigger datacenter players like Global Switch, Equinix or maybe Interxion.

  3. #3
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    Post in this section for offers : http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

    No one will be able to send you offers in this section of the forum as this is against the rules.
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  4. #4
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    i remember my great grandfather got his first i3 in 1922. he would not get off that thing. we ended up losing the family farm. damn minesweeper.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farooq19 View Post
    Post in this section for offers : http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

    No one will be able to send you offers in this section of the forum as this is against the rules.
    It is forbidden in any section of the forum, actually.

  6. #6
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    Let me give out my personal opinions on you requirements:

    Quote Originally Posted by pwnlusa View Post
    We are open for offerings about dedicated servers and bandwidth:

    Servers: not i3-stuff dated 1922, but at least serious double Quads Intel Xeon minimum, 24Gb+ mem, decent RAID config (net 500Gb), 50 at start, space to grow to 200.
    OK. That is a $100k investment just in servers, for the initial batch.

    Engineering: Please provide nr of engineers available, including their experience levels.
    This might be considered confidential information, first because of personal privacy of engineers, second because it might be a competitive advantage. But for 50 servers, no more than 1 engineer at shift is needed.

    Expansion: We'll grow. Please convince us to what level you can expand within 24 hours after a call.
    Unless you are in San Jose, CA and can pickup servers directly at Supermicro's warehouse, 24h is too short of a time to do anything. Electricians also can be very busy and not be available without 48-72h previous notice.

    Ownership/Management: The ownership and management is pretty important to us. Please provide details.
    OK, good to know, but sometimes it is not that important if service is good.

    SLA: 2 hours replacement, 24/7 service

    Hotspares: We love to have 10% hot servers in the rack as a spare, pls provide details what you're willing to do.
    Why bother with a 2h SLA if you have hotspares? Plus a 2h replacement does not fall under most hardware manufacturer's or warranty providers' scope, they are most likely 4-6h, which also will double the initial investment on hardware for 24x7x365x4h as the warranty will likely cost the same as the server.

    Bandwidth: 30Gbit, unshared, unmetered, 1:1, uncapped, not oversold!

    Connectivity: at least 4 tier-1 partners

    Locations: Europe, USA and Asia
    Expect to pay at least $100k and average 150k/month in bandwidth only, in US and Europe, and way much more than that in Asia, for this kind of demand, especially talking about all being tier 1s.

    Please provide your offer in the same lay-out as used above. Any surprise afterwards, even the smallest, forces us to immediately stop talking (nomatter the size of the surprise).
    Too demanding, especially for someone that nobody know who is (who are you?). It almost sounds like too much stubbornness. No serious company will want to do business with you like this. There is always wiggle room and there is always ways to talk. That's how it works. Details you iron out later.

    And that, those rules, coming from someone who didn't bother to read the forum's own rules about requesting offers...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cresci View Post
    Let me give out my personal opinions on you requirements:



    OK. That is a $100k investment just in servers, for the initial batch.



    This might be considered confidential information, first because of personal privacy of engineers, second because it might be a competitive advantage. But for 50 servers, no more than 1 engineer at shift is needed.



    Unless you are in San Jose, CA and can pickup servers directly at Supermicro's warehouse, 24h is too short of a time to do anything. Electricians also can be very busy and not be available without 48-72h previous notice.



    OK, good to know, but sometimes it is not that important if service is good.



    Why bother with a 2h SLA if you have hotspares? Plus a 2h replacement does not fall under most hardware manufacturer's or warranty providers' scope, they are most likely 4-6h, which also will double the initial investment on hardware for 24x7x365x4h as the warranty will likely cost the same as the server.



    Expect to pay at least $100k and average 150k/month in bandwidth only, in US and Europe, and way much more than that in Asia, for this kind of demand, especially talking about all being tier 1s.
    Most of this is true, but some is a little off.

    First of all, for a provider to offer 2 hour replacements just means they have to have spare hardware lying around. Certainly adds to the cost, but by a relatively small and predictable amount. For 50 servers, if you had 2 servers worth of parts lying around, you'd be covered in nearly all cases. Same goes with 24 hour notice on expansion. Depending how many servers the customer wants, you just have that many lying around. Increases the cost by a predictable amount. Same again for hotspares. I do agree that the requirement for hotspares AND 24 hour expansion capability AND 2 hour replacements is kind of redundant. All of them just amount to having a certain amount of extra capacity on hand.

    As to the bandwidth, I disagree about the cost there. There are several Tier 1 providers that will do a 10g unmetered for under $20k / mo. If you need 4 providers, you could just get 4x10g unmetered, and therefore I would say $80-100k / mo would be possible. You might need to get the right kind of rep on the right day, or you might just need enough volume from your other sales to qualify for the pricing, but at the very least I can think of Level 3, Global Crossing, Tinet, and Nlayer all doing pricing under $20k / mo on a 10g fully committed port without too much arm twisting. That's 4 tier 1 carriers right there, and I would be surprised if you couldn't get the pricing down to under $80k under the right circumstances. That also allows for fully 1/3 more bandwidth use than the OP was requested. Whereas you've put the floor at $100k, I would put the ceiling there.

    Too demanding, especially for someone that nobody know who is (who are you?). It almost sounds like too much stubbornness. No serious company will want to do business with you like this. There is always wiggle room and there is always ways to talk. That's how it works. Details you iron out later.

    And that, those rules, coming from someone who didn't bother to read the forum's own rules about requesting offers...
    To this point I completely agree. Reading over the post, I lost count of how many times in my head I saw: "Red flag alert: client from hell! danger will robinson!". Whatever it might normally cost to get this service, I would expect any provider to tack on an extra 50-100% to compensate for this.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Most of this is true, but some is a little off.

    First of all, for a provider to offer 2 hour replacements just means they have to have spare hardware lying around. Certainly adds to the cost, but by a relatively small and predictable amount. For 50 servers, if you had 2 servers worth of parts lying around, you'd be covered in nearly all cases. Same goes with 24 hour notice on expansion. Depending how many servers the customer wants, you just have that many lying around. Increases the cost by a predictable amount. Same again for hotspares. I do agree that the requirement for hotspares AND 24 hour expansion capability AND 2 hour replacements is kind of redundant. All of them just amount to having a certain amount of extra capacity on hand.
    You have to take into consideration that having a 2h replacement guarantee means having 24x7 techs onsite (for a single 50-server rack) - ok, that is one of his initial requirements. That would be then around $15-20k per month just in salaries ($20-25/h for someone with a decent experience, that looks like to be one of his other requirements, on a 5 person rotation weekly). OK, I might be thinking in the mind of a small shop here, but it is to be taken into consideration.

    As to the bandwidth, I disagree about the cost there. There are several Tier 1 providers that will do a 10g unmetered for under $20k / mo. If you need 4 providers, you could just get 4x10g unmetered, and therefore I would say $80-100k / mo would be possible. You might need to get the right kind of rep on the right day, or you might just need enough volume from your other sales to qualify for the pricing, but at the very least I can think of Level 3, Global Crossing, Tinet, and Nlayer all doing pricing under $20k / mo on a 10g fully committed port without too much arm twisting. That's 4 tier 1 carriers right there, and I would be surprised if you couldn't get the pricing down to under $80k under the right circumstances. That also allows for fully 1/3 more bandwidth use than the OP was requested. Whereas you've put the floor at $100k, I would put the ceiling there.
    Nlayer is not Tier 1 :-) But you are thinking on the economy side, and forgot two elements:

    a) Cost of networking infrastructure: he doesn't want any kind of oversubscription, so his hardware needs to be dedicated and chassis and linecards specially chosen. Also, there is the install cost of optics and carrier setup fees (4 ports x $2.5-5k per port, that is 10-20k just in setup fees, depending on the carrier, plus the optics). Remember he wants also everything redundant.

    b) Because he doesn't want any oversubscription and full performance (otherwise there would be no requirement of 4x tier 1s), he would need 3x10Gbps uplinks to EACH tier1 so that transit could flow freely without oversubscription. Maybe his Level3 usage is 20Gbps and others 5Gbps each, you can't really predict and any kind of statistics applied would be defined as oversubscribing. That also grows to be 12 10GE ports (not many routers can handle this) and he wants this redundant. So, 24x 10GE ports.(3 ports per carrier, plus the same amount of ports for redundancy). Don't forget the cross-connect costs also.

    Your model is more of splitting the traffic equally between the 4 tier 1s, load-balancing, without caring for the routes or for the BGP best path, or any kind of FCP. And you can't control the inbound.

    Obviously, all that networking infrastructure needs to be diluted into his monthly pricing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by cresci View Post
    You have to take into consideration that having a 2h replacement guarantee means having 24x7 techs onsite (for a single 50-server rack) - ok, that is one of his initial requirements. That would be then around $15-20k per month just in salaries ($20-25/h for someone with a decent experience, that looks like to be one of his other requirements, on a 5 person rotation weekly). OK, I might be thinking in the mind of a small shop here, but it is to be taken into consideration.



    Nlayer is not Tier 1 :-) But you are thinking on the economy side, and forgot two elements:

    a) Cost of networking infrastructure: he doesn't want any kind of oversubscription, so his hardware needs to be dedicated and chassis and linecards specially chosen. Also, there is the install cost of optics and carrier setup fees (4 ports x $2.5-5k per port, that is 10-20k just in setup fees, depending on the carrier, plus the optics). Remember he wants also everything redundant.

    b) Because he doesn't want any oversubscription and full performance (otherwise there would be no requirement of 4x tier 1s), he would need 3x10Gbps uplinks to EACH tier1 so that transit could flow freely without oversubscription. Maybe his Level3 usage is 20Gbps and others 5Gbps each, you can't really predict and any kind of statistics applied would be defined as oversubscribing. That also grows to be 12 10GE ports (not many routers can handle this) and he wants this redundant. So, 24x 10GE ports.(3 ports per carrier, plus the same amount of ports for redundancy). Don't forget the cross-connect costs also.

    Your model is more of splitting the traffic equally between the 4 tier 1s, load-balancing, without caring for the routes or for the BGP best path, or any kind of FCP. And you can't control the inbound.

    Obviously, all that networking infrastructure needs to be diluted into his monthly pricing.
    The kind of service the OP is looking for would dictate doing business with a company that already has 24/7 staff. A 2 hour guarantee certainly means that the staff would have to prioritize this customer's replacements above others, and therefore that might increase costs or cause other inconveniences, but it certainly does not dictate having a dedicated 24/7 staff for this one customer.

    As to the network infrastructure, it's certainly true there are any number of things you can do to increase cost. Getting 30gbps of traffic out of 4x10gbps ports doesn't sound that ambitious to me, but there are certainly always ways to get less for your money. And of course no matter what you do, there does need to be redundancy as that was requested as a requirement, and that does cost money. Nevertheless, a "big shop", with the kind of network capable of handling all of the OP's requirements, is probably already using 100g of bandwidth between various providers. At those kinds of commits, even $80k is on the high side for 30gbps. I do agree that if someone wanted to build out what the OP is looking for from scratch, without any existing infrastructure, staff, or b/w commits to rely on, the costs will be quite a lot more than what it could cost from a provider who has all of the important pieces in place already.
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  10. #10
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    pwnlusa:
    You might want to considre having a RFP and posting it in the offers section.
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