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Thread: NTL users
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02-13-2003, 03:40 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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NTL users
For all you NTL cable users in the UK , did you notice the change in their policy ?
They are putting a cap on downloads at 1 GB downstream , that means your always on , unlimited internet access is not what it seems.
See here for more information.Keeping my post count under 100 , so don't ask me anything.
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02-13-2003, 03:42 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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yup. its also not legal. they failed to inform their users by post, and they cannot change their contract without consent even if its written in the contract that they can. god coud sign the contract it wouldnt make any difference as such a term is illegal.
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Rich
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02-13-2003, 03:50 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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WTF!
OK I AM PISSED OFF. I JUST upgraded about 1 week ago to the 1MB connection and this is the crap they give? So let me see, is it capped at 1GB downstream (FTP, HTTP, P2P) per DAY or per MONTH?<?php include_once('signature'); ?>
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02-13-2003, 03:55 PM #4Junior Guru Wannabe
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A day , as far as I can tell , they sneaked the changes in on Friday afternoon while no-one was looking.
Keeping my post count under 100 , so don't ask me anything.
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02-13-2003, 03:56 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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That's quite cheap of them really, no mail sent, no e-mail sent, no nothing sent?!?
What is their f'n problem, I thought NTL was a great service with a great price, and it is self proclaimed to be 'always on' internet, well this is seriously contradicting.
Do you know of any other cable internet providers with similar prices to NTL but with no caps and good quality?<?php include_once('signature'); ?>
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02-13-2003, 03:58 PM #6Junior Guru Wannabe
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All depends where you live , Telewest is good and soon to be having a 2mbs service , I cant get it where I am ( Cardiff) , so I'm stuck with NTL.
Keeping my post count under 100 , so don't ask me anything.
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02-13-2003, 04:48 PM #7WHT Addict
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yep.. heard about that, not cool of them at all.
its not like I can get broadband in my area at the moment, but I won't be using NTL now, limits really do suck.
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02-13-2003, 04:57 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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I think it is *required*. Although I don't support it, I can see why.
1GB a day is a lot of data transfer for anyone. You must be a very heavy Kazaa user or super-node to use more than 1gb, of course I do reconize there are legitmates uses too. But why should my internet access suffer because everyone in my street is downloading MP3s, software application or whatever at full capacity 24/7.
Remember NTL never advertised "dedicated bandwidth", remember the word contention.MattF - Since the start..
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02-13-2003, 06:55 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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matt im suprised, not at your position about the cap but your explanation. contention != a cap. contention just means that your sharing the bandwidth and at peak useage there will be a degredation of service. a hard limit of 1 gb a day is not contention, neither is it the unlimited surfing they offered but as the contract holds no legal value anyway it doesnt matter.
their rule is btw if you exceed 1 gb in any three days of 14 consecutive days they will be contacting you, yet they give you no way of monitoring it. thats only 2.5 hours of a 1mbit connection. if their network wasnt a spamhouse then they could get more peering, everybody loves being able to offload traffic gratis to the end users, thats why isps pay lower rates for pipes then hosting companies.
bottom line is ntl havent just shot themselves in the foot, theyve nuked themselves out of existance and back into chap 11.--
Rich
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02-13-2003, 07:10 PM #10Web Hosting Master
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Like I said I don't like it, I'd prefer without it, not too happy with NTL myself.
Yes, I realise that contention is not equal to a cap, but it means they don't have enough bandwidth to the regional POP to support everyone maxing at their max traffic rate. So 1gb a day transfer equal 10% maxing on 1mbit and 18% maxing on a 600kb (haven't worked it out just going on what other say). The contention ratio is probably 1:10 or 1:20 so they can only support 10% or 20% of people at full rate. Hence if people are maxing a lot (i.e. more than 2.5 hours) then others will see a frequent decline in transfer rates due to contention. I've got a headache at the moment so I'll leave the conclusion there and will finish this off tomorrow. Sorry
I'm with you but I can see it as a justified decision. I want Telewest!
bottom line is ntl havent just shot themselves in the foot, theyve nuked themselves out of existance and back into chap 11MattF - Since the start..
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02-14-2003, 12:44 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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02-14-2003, 12:04 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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lol yeah i read the thread, basically what they need to do is have a simple system whereby per exchange it works out the max bandwidth available and then splits it evenly, but slack can be shared. e.g. granny looking at email has a minimum guaranteed level but others can burst using her excess while shes reading the email but the minute she needs it she has the speed.
thinking about it this ntl issue stinks of cost cutting, i dont believe its about maintaining current levels of service, i reckon theyre wanting to cut the cost of their links and decrease their capacity.
as regards nuking themselves, yes it will only kick a small percentage of people they are probably happy without, how many new signups wont occur because they advertise their service with a 1 gb cap and there are adsl providers who dont.
im totally for them penalising people who just leave it on downloading stuff off kazaa and using 1mbit all to themselves, but i dont think a 1 gb cap is the way to go, i think just letting the contention ratios average down their speed so they dont get 1mbit at peak times.
telewest 2 mbit would be nice but i if ntl cant make it pay and need caps then telewest will have similar issues, their solutions may be different but at the end of the day it will effect their users.
one massive problem is that they dont let you know how much you have used, ok so the more technically minded of us can ourselves but your average dad who bought his teenage kids it doesnt have this advantage and probably has no clue its happened until his kids get him booted for downloading too many pop vids of kazaa or whatever.
anyways nice to see you back around matt ill see ya on adsl soon if it gets worse lol.--
Rich
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02-14-2003, 03:40 PM #13WHT Addict
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well.. with the size of patches these days, and live streaming data, 1gb isn't enough imo.. hl/cs patches are like what, 100+mb ? media videos are very large too..ah well.
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02-14-2003, 03:49 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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nooo didnt you read ntl's propaganda?? all large programs are 10mb you are obviously mistaken
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Rich
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02-14-2003, 05:14 PM #15Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by richy
yup. its also not legal. they failed to inform their users by post, and they cannot change their contract without consent even if its written in the contract that they can. god coud sign the contract it wouldnt make any difference as such a term is illegal.
My ISP has had a 1gb download 'limit' for over 2 years and ive not experienced any problemsback from the dead
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02-14-2003, 05:53 PM #16WHT Addict
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Originally posted by richy
nooo didnt you read ntl's propaganda?? all large programs are 10mb you are obviously mistaken
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02-14-2003, 06:30 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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nope, they have to notify you of any change in written form and get your consent otherwise the contract is null and void, if their contract says other then its illegal. contracts cant negate the law, with the exception of things like exemptions to the eu working time directive whereby its a provision in the law that it can be overridden if a contract is formed especially to allow for it.
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Rich
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02-14-2003, 07:03 PM #18Web Hosting Evangelist
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you think you have it bad eh?
Telenet flanders (cable): 10 gigs down/ counting 30 days (so it always looks back at what you have done the last 30 days) , 15% of that 10 gig can be spend on upload (so 1.5 gig). Traffic counted between 00.00 and 10.00 hours counts for 50 %
1 gig extra (includes 15% upload) = 1 euro
maximum of 10 gigs can be bought (it used to be 5 euros a gig)
download speed: 10 mbit (depending on the area, i get around 7 mbit usually)
upload speed : 128 kbit
all ports below 1024 blocked
forced proxy use
4 years ago it was 10 mbit down and 768 kbit up and unlimited data tranfer we were at the top of the usenet abusers at that time
price: 41.95 euros a month (no setup fee)
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Our ADSL lines are cheaper , 32-37 euros (no setup fee) their speed is 3 mbit down and 128-192 kbit up , data transfer is between 10-15 gigs a month (no ratio )and can be bought too
on a second adsl network which isn't available in most parts of belgium, there you have an 8mbit adsl down and 256 kbps up with a 10 gig transfer (no ratio) for 40 euros i think.
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You guys always freak out when a host offers unlimited data transfer, it's the same with ISP's you know.....
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02-14-2003, 07:13 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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Its not as bad as you think. ntl don't bill you if you go over the limit. Their policy is basically if you repeatedly use over 1gb per day then they will "advise you on how to cut down bandwidth usage."
So you can download your ISO's etc. just don't download 3 per day etc. Anyone downloading over an average of 1gb/day shouldn't really be using a home broadband service, as they are either a pirate or use the net so much they need a higher speed business line anyway.
Sympatico Canada is much worse. 5gb per month transfer limit.Gone.