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  1. #1
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    * JaguarPC Initial Review (Short term)

    I am hoping the year of 2012 is going to get better as so far this year it seems my usual happiness with WHT suppliers has vanished

    I do not claim to be a LVL 3 tech expert but I do have experience with VPS servers/dedis and solusvm etc so not a complete noob

    So with a number of VPS issues with unmanaged providers I decided it was time to grab the JaguarPC WHT VPS deal and give it a try..

    Order Process
    -------------

    I placed an order at JaguarPC for the 1gb VPS with cPanel and then find, unlike a number of previous suppliers of reseller accounts, VPS and dedicated server suppliers i have dealt with before , JaguarPC have to check you out before you can get the VPS you have paid for.
    A day of waiting around and a little poke to get things moving ..

    Initial VPS deployment
    ----------------------

    The welcome email arrives and I have the login details .. Hurrah ..
    Unfortunately all is not well .. simple initial setup tasks slide by OK. Capenl can be updated and yum updates install Ok.
    So I move on to a few of the usual security tools like rkhuntenr and chkrootkit which all goes smoothly.
    The luck ends there .. the VPS is unable to run easyapache to rebuld PHP and Apache with my normal settings. So i decide to try another config ... and another ... and another ... they all fail .. some configs where just the standard ones in easyapache such as basic with encryption. None work.

    So I decide its time to test the VPS restore panel .. a VERy bad idea .. The parallels panel allows the VPS to be "reloaded" and we leave it to do its job for an hour or so just to be safe ..
    No cpanel appears to be installed after the reload so I think itll have to be installed by SSH. Login to SSH is fine so we start with the simple task of updating ...
    Yum update ... oh dear .. no yum installed ... something VERY bad with that reload..

    So raise a ticket to support and ask them to reload the VPS ..
    aboiut half an hour later the ticket reply is "we have put the ticket to our higher level tech support"

    There is then a 2 day wait for a reload ... at this point I was going to cancel the VPS and give up but the sales people were now back from the weekend break and tried to help etc etc and explained reloads are dealt with by sales not support !

    VPS server Attempt 2
    ---------------------
    So we now have a reloaded vps .. it has been around 4 days from the initial order ..
    We start the setup proces again from scratch .. so we get to the point of configuring PHP and ... here we go again ..
    Cannot even attempt to run easyapache this time .. due to lack of memory ..
    TheVPS has been reloaded but set up without the correct ram and HD limits .. more tickets to support .. more waiting ..

    At the end of this process they have updated the specs and easyapache runs ... but then other tasks I try start to have issues...

    At this point I have reached the stage of not wishing to wait several hours forthem to try and fix things again. I have wasted several days and many hours waiting for ticket replys for a lot of basic things that IMHO should have worked as soon as the VPS was deployed!

    I have previously had managed VPS (with VPS Latch) and had no problems at all .. I have had unmanaged VPS with 6 or more providers with many less issues than what I would expect to be a superior product from a well rated supplier. I have not at present cancelled the VPS with JaguarPC .. just put it to one side and got on with other VPS on other servers!

    I had purchased a budget VPS with another large provider of unmanaged VPS while i was waiting on JaguarPC sales .. This VPS has had zero issues with the same setup tasks and was running happilly well ahead of the managed JaguarPC VPS ... which still sits broken ..

    The conclusions from my experience are:

    1) I should have kept the cheap VPS deal that I got from VPSLatch when they were bought by Hostdime
    2) from ticket replies/emails etc jaguarPC appear to have a major sales drive on but it is stretching their sales and tech staff a little too much..
    3) It is most likely better long term to have an unmanaged VPS and seperate support/management contracts..

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    You are not alone with these kind of issues, I signed up for vps with Jaguar last month for a side project I had going, but cancelled it (the vps that is), not beause I had any issues, it was simply the type of complaints you could see on their forums and the time to resolve them.

    One server was down 5 days, constant complaints about it taking days to answer tickets and so on. Not quite sure what its all about but their support is very slow to respond to any query it seems.

    They are very good at replying with "we understand your concern and are working on it as quickly as we can" type posts but not so good about actually fixing issues in a timely manner.

    In the end I decided that I was not willing to be in that position of having an issue and spending days trying to get them to fix it as seems the norm with them.

  3. #3
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    It doesn't sound like you're very familiar with VPS.

    - Yum isn't always present on a cPanel VPS build. You have to ask it be enabled/added from the node.
    - Random changes in EasyApache will crash a VPS.
    - You can run out of RAM if you try to update too much at once. This is a limit of how RAM is understood by some of the VZ types out there.

    So most of this is your fault -- not theirs.

    The only thing they can be dinged with is the 2-day waiting period for a tech to address it. It is sort of odd that sales is charged with a VPS rebuild when it's a support type of issue.
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  4. #4
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    Kpmedia, it does not sound as if your taking the time to read the post properly.

    Nothing he has posted suggest he is not familiar with VPS systems.
    Nothing suggests "Random" changes in easyapache.
    The issue with the RAM as he pointed out was due to a setup error in that Jaguar did not allocated the correct limits.

    So no, it does not appear that most is "his" fault. Spend a bit of time on their forums and you will see they are loosing long standing customers due to service issues.

  5. #5
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    Yum not installed I have never got a server with no yum installed that is ridiculous. I have to side with the customer right now unless jaguar has something to chime in on.

  6. #6
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    Yum is not necessarily a default installed utility. It's been at least a year since I last ran into this, and I always forget the exact scenario where you most often find it missing, but yum has to be added by the host. I last ran into this on a Plesk CentOS Linux VPS. I could sift through tickets with the particular host (not JaguarPC), but I honestly don't the time.

    You're also not supposed to update a cPanel server through yum. That's what EasyApache is for. And you can easily screw up a server if you don't choose the EasyApache settings carefully.

    All of this is well documented online, including at the official cPanel site.

    Not knowing this does suggest limited knowledge of using VPS.

    You really cannot blame the host for this. Again, based on what I see, they're only responsible for the slow rebuild, because they've apparently chosen to handle that particular issue through sales instead of support (M-F 9-5, not 24/7). That's unusual, so I'd be just as interested as you are in seeing the reasoning behind it.

    .
    Last edited by kpmedia; 02-19-2012 at 08:05 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezbnc View Post
    Yum not installed I have never got a server with no yum installed that is ridiculous. I have to side with the customer right now unless jaguar has something to chime in on.
    It's common in some very minimal installations.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Yum is not necessarily a default installed utility. It's been at least a year since I last ran into this, and I always forget the exact scenario where you most often find it missing, but yum has to be added by the host. I last ran into this on a Plesk CentOS Linux VPS. I could sift through tickets with the particular host (not JaguarPC), but I honestly don't the time.

    You're also not supposed to update a cPanel server through yum. That's what EasyApache is for. And you can easily screw up a server if you don't choose the EasyApache settings carefully.

    All of this is well documented online, including at the official cPanel site.

    Not knowing this does suggest limited knowledge of using VPS.

    You really cannot blame the host for this. Again, based on what I see, they're only responsible for the slow rebuild, because they've apparently chosen to handle that particular issue through sales instead of support (M-F 9-5, not 24/7). That's unusual, so I'd be just as interested as you are in seeing the reasoning behind it.

    .
    Well maybe I didnt make the situation on the second VPS reload very clear (?) but there was no cpanel inmstalled on the VPS .. no cpanel .. no yum .. so i could hardluy use easyapache to reload it

    I guess I could have tried to run the cpanel install script and see what happened but to be honest .. as it was a managed VPS I wasnt in the mood to waste even more time on it.. I would also think that if the limits were wrong when it was eventually reloaded they were pro bably wrong to start with ..

    To rub salt into the wounds - the part i forgot to mention - was after waiting for over 2 days for a reply to the reload ticket it came from the support department saying I would have to PAY for them to reload it properly...
    The fee for reloading was then waived by the sales department ..

    A little gem which makes it strange to be told sales handle reloads and then it was done by tech .. maybe it just goes through sales so they can charge you ..
    Another little gem was that r1soft backups may be included .. but they do charge to restore your data

    I did say i am no expert ... but i have had in excess of 30 vps in my stable for a while .. I have 3 dedis too .. all of them are unmanaged and have had nowhere near as many issues as the managed one with JaguarPc.. maybe I expect too much to get a correctly set up product of the spec i paid for when an order has been processed,accepted etc ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElyHost View Post
    I guess I could have tried to run the cpanel install script and see what happened but to be honest .. as it was a managed VPS I wasnt in the mood to waste even more time on it..
    Something may have been wrong with the templates being used, or somebody picked the wrong template when it was setup. Strange. Yum is an optional component, and can be missing for a variety of reasons. The node owner can generally add it back in for you when missing.

    To rub salt into the wounds - the part i forgot to mention - was after waiting for over 2 days for a reply to the reload ticket it came from the support department saying I would have to PAY for them to reload it properly...
    This goes back to it being "your fault" (which I believed initially, so I can understand their reaction as well). This may be a case of -- as you've pointed out -- maybe not explaining it very well.

    A little gem which makes it strange to be told sales handle reloads and then it was done by tech .. maybe it just goes through sales so they can charge you ..
    Either that or some sort of verification. It would be crappy if somebody could contact support and get them to wipe a VPS. I think there's a firm division between sales and support at Jag, unlike a lot of other hosts that have some overlap. That's the impression I've always gotten, at least.

    Another little gem was that r1soft backups may be included .. but they do charge to restore your data
    Most hosts consider their backups to literally be THEIR backups, for their use -- not yours. Virtually every host I use either charges for this, or simply doesn't offer to share their backups with you.

    maybe I expect too much to get a correctly set up product of the spec i paid for when an order has been processed,accepted etc ?
    Something sounds screwed up. And I do think you just made something messed-up worse, which compounded the problem and introduced a layer of confusion -- both to them, and to us here.

    I've seen a lot of strange things through the years. I try to be understanding and patience with hosts, as it's not always their fault. There are just so many variables involved with servers, and it's generally ideal to just work with them instead of complaining and running away. (Save complaints for truly horrible hosts -- like ones that don't answer support tickets for 3-4 days, have frequent downtime, speak/write gibberish in support tickets, etc.)

    I'll sub to this thread, in case Jag makes a statement.
    I do find it curious about the sales staff controlling a VPS reload.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElyHost View Post
    Well maybe I didnt make the situation on the second VPS reload very clear (?) but there was no cpanel inmstalled on the VPS .. no cpanel .. no yum .. so i could hardluy use easyapache to reload it

    I guess I could have tried to run the cpanel install script and see what happened but to be honest .. as it was a managed VPS I wasnt in the mood to waste even more time on it.. I would also think that if the limits were wrong when it was eventually reloaded they were pro bably wrong to start with ..

    To rub salt into the wounds - the part i forgot to mention - was after waiting for over 2 days for a reply to the reload ticket it came from the support department saying I would have to PAY for them to reload it properly...
    The fee for reloading was then waived by the sales department ..

    A little gem which makes it strange to be told sales handle reloads and then it was done by tech .. maybe it just goes through sales so they can charge you ..
    Another little gem was that r1soft backups may be included .. but they do charge to restore your data

    I did say i am no expert ... but i have had in excess of 30 vps in my stable for a while .. I have 3 dedis too .. all of them are unmanaged and have had nowhere near as many issues as the managed one with JaguarPc.. maybe I expect too much to get a correctly set up product of the spec i paid for when an order has been processed,accepted etc ?
    I do apologize for all of the ongoing issues you have had. We do take these issues very seriously, and we will do what we need to do, to make sure that not only are all of the issues sorted out for you, but they will not be repeated for future clients or setups.

    I am still in the process of going through your tickets, from the start of the setup, until that last ticket you had opened. If you would please contact me
    directly I would like to make sure that you end up being a satisfied client, with
    a totally stable and reliable vps setup.

    Unfortunately you are not the only client that has experienced some of these issues, over the last few weeks. Most of the causes for these issues, have been remedied.

    1. Setup issues with some of our templates - New templates have been built, and thourghly tested to make sure there are no ongoing issues, new features added to the new templates, we have synced the new templates to all of the current nodes that will be taking new cients, the rest are stiil being replaced.

    2. Delays in our ticket queue. Our customer service and sales reps do all builds, and rebuilds. There have been delays in getting to tickets in this queue. Staff has been shifted around, and new staff added to remedy this problem.

    We have had some delays in getting new hardware setup quick enough to keep up with the demand, this also has created setup delays, and more tickets to our customer service dept. This problem has been eliminated as well. We now have ample stock of new nodes, to handle a much higher demand than we have been seeing.


    I take full responsibility for the issues with the templates, and delays in answering tickets for the customer service department, the buck for this one'
    stops with me, and there will be no further issues in these areas.

    Please contact me directly so that we can work out a solution, to make sure that you are satisfied with your vps setup now, and in the future.

    jim @ jaguarpc.com
    Hosted solutions provider since 1998- Your end-to-end managed solutions provider.
    JaguarPC.com - Managed Hybrid Servers | Managed VPS Hosting | Dedicated Servers
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    This goes back to it being "your fault" (which I believed initially, so I can understand their reaction as well). This may be a case of -- as you've pointed out -- maybe not explaining it very well.
    Nope definately not me .. i am always right
    As for charging for a reload .. it seemed a matter of policy rather than having any other reason - no reason other than we charge for that was given ..

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Most hosts consider their backups to literally be THEIR backups, for their use -- not yours. Virtually every host I use either charges for this, or simply doesn't offer to share their backups with you.
    To a degree I understand the backups situation, I just find it strange to shout about "we include r1soft backups" in the package and not mention anywhere that actually getting them restored will cost you
    To me its a bit like being given a free chicken but being charged $5 when it lays an egg as the chicken is kept away from your hands and you cannot operate it directly yourself .. lol ..

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

    I've seen a lot of strange things through the years. I try to be understanding and patience with hosts, as it's not always their fault.
    I know ... I have had issues over the last couple of years with various hosts .. including ones who claimed there was nothing wrong with their work but the fault mysteriously disappeared after they had logged into the system as root (which they denied doing lol)

    To be fair , I would normally have persevered longer with the initial problems with JagPC and no doubt I will contact them direct and sort things. Its partly the fact that I ordered from them asa a managed service hoping to avoid all the cr*p i have had recently with other suppliers and initially ended up no better off..
    My idea being .. ooh a managed VPS I can sit back and relax a little and get them to do the nasty stuff that takes all my time up

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPC-Jim View Post
    I am still in the process of going through your tickets, from the start of the setup, until that last ticket you had opened. If you would please contact me
    directly I would like to make sure that you end up being a satisfied client, with
    a totally stable and reliable vps setup.

    jim @ jaguarpc.com
    As per my earlier opost .. I admit JagPC managed to be the top straw on a very big pile o straws .. I had been almost excited and relieved to think my woes would immediatelyend by having a managed VPS from such a big name

    I will have to get my head back onto where I was at with the VPS there as I had strated to work on a replacement one instead but iwill contact you tomorrow when i get it all straightened

  13. #13
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by JPC-Jim View Post

    Please contact me directly so that we can work out a solution, to make sure that you are satisfied with your vps setup now, and in the future.

    jim @ jaguarpc.com
    Well as an update to the thread .. I emailed several days ago ..

    no sign of a reply though ..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElyHost View Post
    Well as an update to the thread .. I emailed several days ago ..

    no sign of a reply though ..
    I'm sorry that you did not receive a reply. I have mentioned this to Jim and he should respond back shortly.
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