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02-15-2012, 12:41 PM #1Disabled
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Yet another fiber optic question, this time 10G Cisco Optics
We've got some C3KX-NM-10G modules coming for our 3750x stacks, one stack in each rack, and are looking to uplink them. The racks are side by side.
Each rack has 2 3750x stacked. We figure we'll do 2 uplinks, 1 from each switch in each rack to each other in an etherchannel.
The question is, I see all these different types of 10G optics to go into the module. The module itself has 2 sfp and 2 sfp+ ports.
I see:
SFP-10G-ER
SFP-10G-LR
SFP-10G-LRM
SFP-10G-SR
SFP-10G-ZR
Seeing as the cabinets are side by side the obvious choice appears to be SFP-10G-SR. But is that really the best choice?
EDIT: Also is there a reason to buy new Cisco vs. used Cisco vs. new Third party?0
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02-15-2012, 12:47 PM #2Master of the Truth
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10G-SR or 10G-LR is what you can use. you could use LRM but thats kinda the "odd one no one ever uses"
Depending on the MMF you use.. OM4 ranges 400M, OM3 is 300M OM2 is 82m om1 is 33 meters.
LR will do 10km without any problems
SR/LR are LED based optics where the ER/ZR are actual laser based iirc.
Third party optics will be generally 1/3rd the price of cisco optics. There are a slew of quality optics that come out of HK that work great with cisco. Might have to do the hidden service support-unsupported command but they should work fine as long as they are also coded for cisco in the eeproms.Yellow Fiber Networks
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02-15-2012, 01:38 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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I agree if that I were just buying an optic or two, I'd go SR just for future interop reasons. The LRM optics are great for interconnecting Cisco gear that support them, but even Cisco doesn't support LRM across all their product lines. In particular, the Nexus 5ks and 2ks have no ASIC support for the LRM SFP+.
All that said, for interconnecting our Nexus 7ks and 6500s we use LRM optics exclusively. When you're ordering a few hundred 10gig optics, the savings of LRM are completely worth it.Eric Spaeth
Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
"The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."0
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02-15-2012, 12:59 PM #4Disabled
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Cool man, thanks. Looks like SR are more plentiful and cheaper so that seems the best route. Also looks like used cisco is only $40 more than new third party.
Do these things wear out or have any other problems that make buying used not the better move?0
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02-15-2012, 01:00 PM #5Master of the Truth
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Yellow Fiber Networks
http://www.yellowfiber.net : Managed Solutions - Colocation - Network Services IPv4/IPv6
Ashburn/Denver/NYC/Dallas/Chicago Markets Served zak@yellowfiber.net0
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02-15-2012, 01:42 PM #6Web Hosting Master
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If you only have a few racks (4) and they are adjacent you can use the 3m stacking cables and connect them via the 64Gig stacking ring. (I believe the stack limit is 9 switches.)
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02-16-2012, 01:23 AM #7Disabled
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02-16-2012, 01:35 AM #8Web Hosting Master
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OK if you have to use the SFP+ why not just use 10Gig, direct attach cables?
SFP-H10GB-CU5M= (or 3m or 1m version) save a bunch of money, has lower latency and you need 1/2 as many as it includes both ends.
Also, out of interest what size stackwise cables did you find and where? I am about to do the horizontal stack thing and slightly longer cables would help.
Dave.0
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02-16-2012, 01:40 AM #9Disabled
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They have 5m, 7m and 10m. I don't have any experience with those lengths though.
http://www.connectzone.com/cab-stack-5m.html
http://www.connectzone.com/cab-stack-7m.html
http://www.connectzone.com/cab-stack-10m.html
What do you mean by direct attach cables?0
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02-16-2012, 03:05 AM #10Web Hosting Master
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Also known as twinaxial or twinax, basically they are 10Gig copper cables/SFP+ that plug into the SFP+ slots and can run over short distances. (typically 5m or less).
http://www.starcompu.com/cisco-sfp-h10gb-cu5m.html
Dave.0
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02-16-2012, 12:37 PM #11Disabled
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02-16-2012, 02:50 PM #12Aspiring Evangelist
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02-16-2012, 01:42 AM #13Web Hosting Master
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How are the cross connects delivered? Probably single mode.
If your not on 10gig now you probably will be one day?
Why hassle with OM2, OM3, etc. single mode will be here for the long haul (no pun intended) for your future expansion. If you go with LR optics for your short runs too you only have one spare part to stock, all of your cables are interchangeable and have a longer shelf life, etc. Just remember to attenuate the LR optics on such a short run.
You can buy a programmer to use the optics in various brand devices as well.0
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02-16-2012, 01:49 AM #14Disabled
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Single mode, yup. Not 10g to the carriers yet but this time next year it's likely we will be.
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02-16-2012, 01:55 AM #15Web Hosting Master
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It was a rhetorical question ;-)
Unless your in a dive joint the carriers will deliver on single mode media...
So you get the point now? Next year you don't have a spare 10gig LR for uplink and 10gig sr for internal.
Just get an attenuator for the short run...or if you use a patch panel the bulkhead will create an air gap and you will be fine.
Some people tie a knot in the cable to reduce the light... Don't do that.0
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02-16-2012, 02:05 AM #16Disabled
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What is the difference between 50MMF and 62.5MMF in the SR optics?
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02-16-2012, 03:15 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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Its the size of the core. 50 micron vs 62.5 micron. OM3 is narrower. In laymans terms the narrower the core the more direct the light path (and less paths the light can take) this means the narrower the core the more efficient the fiber. Once you get to 9 microns (the size of the core in single mode) there is only one path the light can take making it more efficient so the same amount of photons will travel further. (Its not quite like I describe but it is a very good analogy.)
Personally if the run is to big for twinax copper I use single mode. (Even for short distances) I have relegated anything multi mode to the scrap heap.
To learn all about fiber go to the following link and work your way over the table starting at Jargon:
http://www.lanshack.com/fiber-optic-tutorial.aspx
Dave.0
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02-18-2012, 12:57 PM #18Disabled
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So turns out instead of the C3KX-NM-10G's we ordered we received C3KX-NM-10GT's instead. I ran out and picked up some cat6a cables (damn they're thick!) and popped in the modules to find:
PLATFORM-4-FRULINK_UNSUPPORTED: Unsupported FRULink 10G NS module inserted
Turns out we're on ios 12.2(53r)SE2 and they weren't supported until 15.0(1)SE. Ungggghh!
Everything is bonded across each switch in each stack so in theory we can upgrade each switch in the stack with minimal downtime.
Anyone else running ios 15? What about rolling upgrades for a stack, is it possible?
Edit: The reason for asking about RSU is this thread:
https://supportforums.cisco.com/thread/2117754
Indicates that there are bugs where RSU won't work pre 15.0 and even then won't work on a layer 3 port. I find that kind of funny as when comparing these to the ex4200's one of the negatives mentioned about the ex4200's is no ISU. Yet here I am on the Cisco side and find it's a broken feature.Last edited by cheezus; 02-18-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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02-18-2012, 01:27 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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Eric Spaeth
Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
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02-18-2012, 01:31 PM #20Disabled
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02-18-2012, 01:50 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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Eric Spaeth
Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
"The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."0
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02-18-2012, 01:57 PM #22Disabled
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Ah, never noticed before although I have heard a duck quack.
That's good to know. We're actually using the base feature set so we should be ok. I'm waiting on TAC now to see about the upgrade poc and find out more about RSU. Although RSU appears to not have been supported until 12.2(58) anyway... I'm more concerned with going to 15 and the stability/bugs found in anything new...0
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02-18-2012, 02:43 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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You know you don't have to upgrade the entire ex4200 VC at the SAME TIME. You can upgrade it member by member.
If the network is properly architected you can upgrade, even an ex4200, with no downtime. I would not rely on ISSU / RSU / etc to eliminate downtime. I would rely on proper network architecture to keep a network running.█ REDUNDANT.COM • Equinix Data Centers • Performance Optimized Network
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02-18-2012, 02:48 PM #24Disabled
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I don't know, don't run them. That's just what comes out whenever the 3570x vs ex4200 comparison is discussed here.
Not sure how your comment about relying on proper network arc to keep a network running applies to my situation so I'm gonna write it off as you just being cranky.0
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02-18-2012, 02:52 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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I did not intend to come off sounding cranky, for that I am sorry.
I was simply saying that RSU/ISSU should not be a decision maker when buying switches as it has proven, from more than one vendor, to not be reliable.
Was just hoping that if someone was reading this thread would have the full picture before using this to write off both the EX4200 and the Cisco 3570x on the sole basis that it does not support RSU / ISSU.█ REDUNDANT.COM • Equinix Data Centers • Performance Optimized Network
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