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  1. #26
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    I fail to understand why you guys are focusing on the DMCA aspect.

    Fact in the matter is, their customers are hosting pirated content. I've supplied enough evidence to support the fact that I've already tried to get their customer to take it down (before bothering Leaseweb) and to prove that I'm the content owner.

    If you have a movie/music fan site where fan creations are hosted with ZERO of original publisher's original items... you get a hoard of DMCA notices in your inbox by the awesome MAFIAA dmca bots that hits keywords like .mp3, .mov and all their titles...
    What?
    If you're getting rogue DMCA's with no factual evidence to support it's claim, then whatever - but that is not the case with me and Leaseweb's customer.

    If a US policeman goes to another country and starts trying to police people would laugh at him...same goes for this. Just cause another country/host did it, does NOT mean another company would follow your directions without the appropriate and required information.
    I fail to see your point. Who cares if it was a DMCA or something I wrote by hand?
    Again, their customer is hosting pirated content. I supplied proof it was pirated.

    If Leaseweb is not satisfied with the proof I've offered, they have yet to tell me so.

    You should of just followed Dutch Laws as they asked and sent in some Dutch Laws backing your video to get them to take it down.
    Did you even read the rest of the topic?
    Last edited by gpl24; 02-04-2012 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaseWeb View Post
    Sir,

    LeaseWeb has over 40,000 servers running as we speak, it's very difficult for us to hold each complainants hand and guide him step by step into filing a complaint according to the law.

    It would have taken you less time to just google it: http://lsw.to/ydh
    The information is clearly available online and it shouldn't be too difficult to follow it.

    We're very eager to help fight online crime but we need you to help us adhere to the law.

    Thanks for your cooperation.
    What does that have to do with the fact that you host illegal stuff and don´t comply as expected?
    if 40k is too much for you : either hire more ( competent) employees or don't sell extra servers until you can manage what you already have.

  3. #28
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    You really just like to complain, don't you? Just because you say it's pirated, doesn't mean a thing. You *must* follow Dutch regulations if you want someone to investigate your issue. Just saying it's illegal, doesn't make it illegal. You're not special, nobody is going to change the way they do things just for you.

  4. #29
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    You really just like to complain, don't you?
    Is that really necessary?

    Just because you say it's pirated, doesn't mean a thing.
    I am aware of that. Did you read the rest of this topic? I'm fairly certain I've covered this aspect already.
    You *must* follow Dutch regulations if you want someone to investigate your issue. Just saying it's illegal, doesn't make it illegal. You're not special, nobody is going to change the way they do things just for you.
    I never asked (or expected) Leaseweb to change or bend the rules for me.
    When I reply with what they asked for, and I do not hear back from them saying "Yes this will suffice" or "You did not provide enough info" - what else am I supposed to do?

    People please, read the topic before posting your two-cents, or it's not worth anything.

    For the record:
    Regarding my current and previous posts where I say I replied with what they asked for, I meant I replied to their auto-generated messages with my reply/copies of emails to their customer.

    Still, I have yet to hear back from them.
    The most action I've got from them was their post earlier in this thread and a PM asking me to change the topic title.

  5. #30
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    Hopefully when you are done, and have something acceptable to Leaseweb, you can make a template letter that others can benefit from.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvis1 View Post
    What does that have to do with the fact that you host illegal stuff and don´t comply as expected?
    if 40k is too much for you : either hire more ( competent) employees or don't sell extra servers until you can manage what you already have.
    Well said.
    A reply telling me whether or not my information is compliant to their Dutch law would be really helpful.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techno View Post
    Hopefully when you are done, and have something acceptable to Leaseweb, you can make a template letter that others can benefit from.
    I will post it, once I figure out what they're expecting.
    Hard to know without communication!


    And with that, goodnight people. I am going out for the evening. Have a nice night everybody.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpl24 View Post
    Because it's pirated content.
    Then why don't you follow the laws that govern pirated content, which in this case is the "Dutch Notice and Takedown Code of Conduct"?

    You refused the follow the relevant law and then complain about Leasweb ignoring you?

  9. #34
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    Not once in this thread have you stated or shown that you have sent an official NTD. You sit here complaining and saying you've sent them what they need, when you did not. Until you actually follow Dutch regulations, you have no reason to complain. I don't care if you're a independent programmer or a giant movie studio. Until you actually send a NTD, you will be ignored.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by subigo View Post
    Not once in this thread have you stated or shown that you have sent an official NTD. You sit here complaining and saying you've sent them what they need, when you did not. Until you actually follow Dutch regulations, you have no reason to complain. I don't care if you're a independent programmer or a giant movie studio. Until you actually send a NTD, you will be ignored.
    Exactly right, plus if LeaseWeb were to act on anything other than a properly formatted NTD they could be held liable by their client for deleting content from a server without correct legal documentation.

    I wonder how gpl24 would react if he were to come back from his night out to find that his web site had been zapped because his host received some wacky email from a Dutch guy which, whilst not exactly in the format of a DMCA, was threatening enough for them to decide it was "probably" OK and "safe" to act on?

    gpl24, have a read: http://www.samentegencybercrime.nl/U...aak_Engels.pdf

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpl24 View Post
    and a PM asking me to change the topic title.
    And so it should be. This is more about you throwing your teddy out of the pram because an overseas host won't roll over when you demand it, and wasting an hour posting here rather than doing a bit of Googling and finding out what you need to do to file your complaint in accordance with local laws. LeaseWeb are great people to deal with, and I'm sure will act promptly once you give them something legitimate to act upon, and which they can rely upon in their defence if their customer then joins in with the teddy throwing.

    I'm pretty sure you'd have got a more positive set of responses from members (and Dutch hosts) if you'd started a thread entitled "How do I handle whatever the equivalent is of a DMCA in the Netherlands", rather than the title you used which could be considered defamatory.

  12. #37
    Fighting Piracy = Good.

    Pissing off legitimate hosting providers because of inability to Google and follow the correct procedures = Douche bag.

    /thread.
    Freelance C# Programmer

    Note to all: Please remember that not all scenarios need HDD level availability.

  13. #38
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    Exactly right, plus if LeaseWeb were to act on anything other than a properly formatted NTD they could be held liable by their client for deleting content from a server without correct legal documentation.
    And I have yet to see a "properly formatted NTD" -- if such is commonplace, surely one of you smart-asses could have linked an example by now?

    /thread.

  14. #39
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    Stop crying, use Google.
    Sample: http://blog.seniorennet.be/abuse_en_copyright.php
    Sample: http://www.layar.com/legal/takedown-notice/

    I do agree that Leaseweb needs a similar detailed explanation on their site, but having a temper tantrum in the forum won't be the catalyst for making that happen.

    The biggest difference between a DMCA, and the Dutch takedown, is best found in this quote from the second site: "You are responsible for ensuring that your report is unambiguous, correct, complete and well substantiated."

    Too many USA hosts (or more often, reseller/kiddie "hosts"), knee-jerk remove/suspend sites when the DMCA file is a complete piece of garbage. I've seen complaints at WHT of hosts who take down sites based on semi-illiterate garbage scrawled in an email. If I were a host, I wouldn't even respond to such nonsense, and simply hit delete.
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  15. #40
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    Ayyye... read the thread....

    The biggest difference between a DMCA, and the Dutch takedown, is best found in this quote from the second site: "You are responsible for ensuring that your report is unambiguous, correct, complete and well substantiated."
    With that, "read the thread".
    You/I are in limbo waiting for Leaseweb to determine their findings on the 'reports' I've supplied.
    Still, I await their response regarding my follow-ups.

    Too many USA hosts (or more often, reseller/kiddie "hosts"), knee-jerk remove/suspend sites when the DMCA file is a complete piece of garbage. I've seen complaints at WHT of hosts who take down sites based on semi-illiterate garbage scrawled in an email. If I were a host, I wouldn't even respond to such nonsense, and simply hit delete.
    Who's to say the Dutch version of a DMCA can't be sprawled in garbage? What makes it any different?
    Again, we're forgetting that the main parts of this dispute involve copyrighted content. You all are focusing way too much on the "DMCA" part of it. I only used a DMCA because it seems to work in the vast majority of instances.
    Outside of my experiences; my beliefs still stand: DMCA is the way to go, irregardless of where you/the content originate from.

    For the record, I am not in the USA, nor was my content in question generated in the USA. Nothing, other than the DMCA's I've sent, are American.

  16. #41
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    So....

    Is this a thread for arguing about how lw should conduct their business or what?

    They've outlined what needs to be done, it's now upto you to figure out how to write a NTD, write one and send it to them

    //unsub

  17. #42
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    They've outlined what needs to be done
    Actually, quite the opposite. I'm still awaiting their acceptance/refusal of my materials.

    it's now upto you to figure out how to write a NTD, write one and send it to them
    Read the entire topic, then read above.

  18. #43
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    I just wanted to node that leaseweb does not even need to remove the content if he sends a NTD - If their customer tells them they go to court over it (does not matter if they really do it) they are out of liability (similar to counter dmcas) and don't need to inform you about it.
    The only way to force a provider to take down in Europe is a court order, either directly in the hosts country or from another EU country and then brought to a dutch court under a "Rechtshilfeabkommen" (German, don't know english word, sorry) which puts it into force in the Netherlands and takes neccesary steps to enforce it (local court order).

    Until then they can pretty much relax and ignore anything sent.

    It is similar to US honeypot laws - When you report a child pornography site to the ISP/FBI/Police and they are already monitoring/sniffing/intercepting it they also don't need to reply you and can ignore anything while staying inside a safe harbor and not fearing any prosecution.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpl24 View Post
    Who's to say the Dutch version of a DMCA can't be sprawled in garbage? What makes it any different?
    Again, we're forgetting that the main parts of this dispute involve copyrighted content. You all are focusing way too much on the "DMCA" part of it. I only used a DMCA because it seems to work in the vast majority of instances.
    Outside of my experiences; my beliefs still stand: DMCA is the way to go, irregardless of where you/the content originate from.

    For the record, I am not in the USA, nor was my content in question generated in the USA. Nothing, other than the DMCA's I've sent, are American.
    What makes it different is that it's the law/procedure that Leaseweb is governed by. You seem to forget that a large part of the law is due process. If you're not following due process according to the law, don't expect to get any results. That applies for the USA, Canada, Europe, and most free countries in the world. Just because a few hosts in China and Russia happened to respond to your DMCA complaints, doesn't mean that they were valid.

    Your problem is you're following what you believe rather than the law. If you don't want to listen to anyone here, ask a good lawyer if your position has any merit.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    free countries


    .....

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GCM View Post
    Same, but when you get hilarious responses like this it gets you through the day.
    Same, but when you get hilarious responses like this it gets you through the day.

    Quote:
    Dear [redacted],

    You needs to point out which ‘postings’ you feels are infringing,
    simply sending us a 'index url'"
    http://www.[redacted].org/?s=[redacted] is to broad.

    If you list the individual posts like:
    http://www.[redacted].org/[redacted].html
    we can
    take action.

    --
    Met vriendelijke groet / Kind Regards,
    I'd like to add that this isn't ridiculous when you think about it. If you don't point to specific content how can the host know that you own the copyright to the content and what content it is?
    It's common practice to always link directly to the page that contains the content, so it can't be abused.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by coax View Post
    I'd like to add that this isn't ridiculous when you think about it. If you don't point to specific content how can the host know that you own the copyright to the content and what content it is?
    It's common practice to always link directly to the page that contains the content, so it can't be abused.
    Oh? If you saw the site we referenced you'd think otherwise. All the post within that search regex are infringing.

    If you're interested PM me. It's NSFW otherwise I'd link to it

  23. #48
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    I would think that LW would want to follow DMCA because they make claim on their website to operate in more than one US location.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpl24 View Post
    Hosts from CHINA and RUSSIA have complied to my DMCA requests.
    So? We would do exactly the same as Leaseweb, basicly to tell you your DMCA does not hold any legal sway over us, and to use the correct, and legal, procedure here in the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by gpl24 View Post
    I am not from Holland, they did not supply any information regarding this, nor did they respond to any of my (many) queries regarding these files with instructions how I comply with "Dutch Takedown Code of Conduct".
    Did you even try googling? I did and the FIRST entry that comes up is a PDF detailing the procedure.
    This account is no longer active!

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentHouse Hosting View Post
    I would think that LW would want to follow DMCA because they make claim on their website to operate in more than one US location.
    They probably do, for servers that are in the US. But for servers in the EU, Dutch law trumps US law.
    This account is no longer active!

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