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  1. #1
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    BurstNET Ignores DMCA's?

    I've seen numerous threads in the past, and it seems to be true.

    We sent over a DMCA Sunday and yet to hear back aside from a generic reply early Monday Morning. Is there some sort of escalation path for BurstNET?

    Sent to abuse@burst.net and abuse@hostnoc.net with no avail.

  2. #2
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    Ignore or slower then what you hoped?
    cPanel, CloudLinux, Softaculous ℵ Off Site Backups, Redundant DNS

  3. #3
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    I wish more providers would ignore DMCA's. (I'm sure BurstNET are not -actually- ignoring them...)

  4. #4
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    It is burst after all give them a week or two and you might get a response back

  5. #5
    I assure you that BurstNET does _not_ ignore DMCAs. I'm certain that you can find threads in which we are accused of being far too strict when it comes to abuse and, in particular, infringement.

    Please keep in mind that there are some issues we cannot discuss in detail with complainants, beyond acknowledgements of receipt. The "generic" reply may be all that we are able to provide.

    Note: When sending a complaint to us, if you do not receive an initial acknowledgement and ticket number, it is likely we do not have your complaint and you should try sending it again.
    Last edited by BurstNET CS; 02-02-2012 at 01:35 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I wish more providers would ignore DMCA's. (I'm sure BurstNET are not -actually- ignoring them...)
    I disagree. Personally written DMCA notices should be respected at all hosts as is only polite to the copyright holder.

    Mass-mailed automated DMCA notices, however, are an annoyance everyone could do without. They however, still need respected unfortunately.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flapadar View Post
    I disagree. Personally written DMCA notices should be respected at all hosts as is only polite to the copyright holder.

    Mass-mailed automated DMCA notices, however, are an annoyance everyone could do without. They however, still need respected unfortunately.
    Agreed, Automated Notifications from BayTSP/Irdeto are annoying, but in this case it was a more or less formal notice of Trademark Infringement.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurstAbuseDept View Post
    I assure you that BurstNET does _not_ ignore DMCAs. I'm certain that you can find threads in which we are accused of being far too strict when it comes to abuse and, in particular, infringement.

    Please keep in mind that there are some issues we cannot discuss in detail with complainants, beyond acknowledgements of receipt. The "generic" reply may be all that we are able to provide.

    Note: When sending a complaint to us, if you do not receive an initial acknowledgement and ticket number, it is likely we do not have your complaint and you should try sending it again.
    Someone closed the ticket without resolving the issue. I've PMed you the tickets, they are sequential of each other.

    Hello,

    We hope that we have addressed this matter, to your satisfaction. At this time, this ticket is being closed.

    If you have any related questions, please feel free to re-open this ticket.

    Requests pertaining to unrelated issues should be addressed in new tickets.

    Thank you for contacting BurstNET.

    --
    Anees Thottikkulayan.
    Support Technician
    BurstNET - A Worldwide Leader in Web Hosting and Internet Solutions
    Scranton, Pennsylvania (USA) - http://www.burst.net
    Manchester (UK) - http://www.burstnet.eu

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezbnc View Post
    It is burst after all give them a week or two and you might get a response back
    Even Oron and Leaseweb are faster..

  9. #9
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    "Trademark infringements" aren't covered under the DMCA.
    Your faithful student,
    Twilight Sparkle

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flapadar View Post
    I disagree. Personally written DMCA notices should be respected at all hosts as is only polite to the copyright holder.

    Mass-mailed automated DMCA notices, however, are an annoyance everyone could do without. They however, still need respected unfortunately.
    I wish the mass automailer was made illegal in DMCA... That'd be awesome.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeris View Post
    "Trademark infringements" aren't covered under the DMCA.
    Thanks for your input. Keep in mind I'm generalizing what was sent to BurstNET and has yet to be acted upon.

  12. #12
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    First of all the company doesn't have to really reply on your DMCA, its the customer that has.

    This means its quite polite for them to reply but they pass this DMCA to the client. Sending a DMCA doesn't mean you are right by default. A customer can reply back to the DMCA if he considers your claim is false for example.

    In this case, they usually send the DMCA to the client, if he doesn't respond they proceed with a take down if their TOS says so. But like I said a client can respond to the DMCA because sometime the DMCA is not valid. It would not be the first time someone abusing the DMCA to take down a competitor. I don't say this is your case, but it happens.

    I know for a fact that some companies will ignore a DMCA if its not legally written, this means its written properly and complies with a correct DMCA request. Usually when your personal data is missing, the claimer or some other data is incorrect they can discard the DMCA completely. But usually they will instruct you to send it again, they would not tell you what is indeed wrong, but they will tell you to send the DMCA again in a proper format and correctly. This is my experience at least.

    Mass emailing DMCA is truly abusive and I could consider them completely false and illegal. A DMCA has to be written personally as you are stating the information is accurate and true. Now if you mass email a DMCA, and it contains fake details, you can be sued for this. Because you are using a legal tool to make false statements.

    Im not sure if trademarks are covered under DMCA, this could be a reason why they don't reply.

    You need to allow some days for a reply. First the company receives it, then they pass this to the customer. Usually you would first contact the abuser or client, if he doesn't reply, then you contact the hosting compnay, which will try to contact the client as well with your request. If he still doesn't reply then they can actually shut them down for not responding, but if he does, they need to pass their claim back to you. Or the customer will reply that he took the content off.

    Google for example claimed that %, I think it was 30% of DMCA´s received where false targeting competing business.
    Last edited by nibb; 02-02-2012 at 05:30 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    First of all the company doesn't have to really reply on your DMCA, its the customer that has.
    True, however failing to take action relinquishes them of their safe harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    This means its quite polite for them to reply but they pass this DMCA to the client. Sending a DMCA doesn't mean you are right by default. A customer can reply back to the DMCA if he considers your claim is false for example.
    Well aware of how DMCA works..

    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    In this case, they usually send the DMCA to the client, if he doesn't respond they proceed with a take down if their TOS says so. But like I said a client can respond to the DMCA because sometime the DMCA is not valid. It would not be the first time someone abusing the DMCA to take down a competitor. I don't say this is your case, but it happens.
    Considering we've done this for over 10 Years under numerous other brands there is nothing wrong with how our DMCA's and UDRP Notices are formatted.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    Mass emailing DMCA is truly abusive and I could consider them completely false and illegal. A DMCA has to be written personally as you are stating the information is accurate and true. Now if you mass email a DMCA, and it contains fake details, you can be sued for this. Because you are using a legal tool to make false statements.
    To be frank, there isn't really an effective way of sending DMCA's without any form of automation. Automation is key in the fight against piracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    Google for example claimed that %, I think it was 30% of DMCA´s received where false targeting competing business.
    Well aware. I love how you're portraying us as this shady organization who doesn't know squat about the internet by essentially dumbing down the DMCA Process
    Last edited by GCM; 02-02-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  14. #14
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    No I didn't. I never said this and I did not said you DMCA is not valid. I just said give them sometime to reply. You cannot expect them to act in 1 hour, you opened this thread today and they already replied. My comments where for general readers. Not for anyone in particular.

    I'm sure if your claim is valid they will act. But everyone want everyone else dancing around their heads and Im sure they have other requests to research first. Maybe they are understaffed, I don't know. It would not be the first time you read here in WHT that burst is slow or not replying, so I don´t see why they would take a hi priority on non customers issues first.

    Unless you send them the claims weeks ago.

    Can we know when you send them the DMCA?

    If you never received a Ticket like they said, then they never received it. And since you confirm you use automation for this it probably landed on the Spam folder.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    No I didn't. I never said this and I did not said you DMCA is not valid. I just said give them sometime to reply. You cannot expect them to act in 1 hour, you opened this thread today and they already replied.
    If you look in my first post, we essentially have waited for 4 Days without action (Opened Sunday). Average takedowns occur within 24 hours or less from companies far larger than BurstNET.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    Unless you send them the claims weeks ago.

    Can we know when you send them the DMCA?

    If you never received a Ticket like they said, then they never received it. And since you confirm you use automation for this it probably landed on the Spam folder.
    See above. While we do use automation, the emails aren't spammy and personalized to a degree. I can confirm they did receive the tickets.

    {100-3090448}
    {100-3090449}

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCM View Post
    If you look in my first post, we essentially have waited for 4 Days without action (Opened Sunday). Average takedowns occur within 24 hours or less from companies far larger than BurstNET.



    See above. While we do use automation, the emails aren't spammy and personalized to a degree. I can confirm they did receive the tickets.

    {100-3090448}
    {100-3090449}
    Ok, I apologize, then I retract what I said.

    But in general Burst is just plain slow. Search WHT and you will see. Lets hope they take action on your issue. Good luck.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flapadar View Post
    I disagree. Personally written DMCA notices should be respected at all hosts as is only polite to the copyright holder.

    Mass-mailed automated DMCA notices, however, are an annoyance everyone could do without. They however, still need respected unfortunately.
    We would ignore both!
    Simon Green - Business Development Manager - RaveX Data
    All opinions expressed by me are my own and do not represent RaveX or any company I represent.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCM View Post
    If you look in my first post, we essentially have waited for 4 Days without action (Opened Sunday). Average takedowns occur within 24 hours or less from companies far larger than BurstNET.



    See above. While we do use automation, the emails aren't spammy and personalized to a degree. I can confirm they did receive the tickets.

    {100-3090448}
    {100-3090449}
    Just my 2 cents:

    I don't think 24 hours is reasonable for most hosting companies. They should be giving their client enough time to receive and respond to a request. While some may do it that quickly I think a more reasonable timeframe is 2-3 days to allow for proper communication, action and response.

    In your first post you said that there was no response but subsequently it looked like you said they reviewed it and closed it, perhaps in error.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolraul View Post
    Just my 2 cents:

    I don't think 24 hours is reasonable for most hosting companies. They should be giving their client enough time to receive and respond to a request. While some may do it that quickly I think a more reasonable timeframe is 2-3 days to allow for proper communication, action and response.

    In your first post you said that there was no response but subsequently it looked like you said they reviewed it and closed it, perhaps in error.
    While I would normally agree in any other circumstance, this case specifically is blatant copyright infringement and domain squatting. It's some guy in China.

    As to your other statement, it looks like the cases were closed 30 minutes before Burst replied here. Still waiting on him now..

  20. #20
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    Ah I see the thread must have prompted some action but not enough.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon-Orqoo View Post
    We would ignore both!
    Thats because your company is not US based and DMCA is only for the US. So sure, you can ignore them. But im sure there are other legal mechanism in Europe.

    Sure you can ignore it, like some Canadian hosters posted here, that the US laws doesn't apply there but you can always still be held liable for ignoring them. This may interest you:
    http://www.potato-people.com/blog/20...ces-in-the-uk/

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    Thats because your company is not US based and DMCA is only for the US. So sure, you can ignore them. But im sure there are other legal mechanism in Europe.

    Sure you can ignore it, like some Canadian hosters posted here, that the US laws doesn't apply there but you can always still be held liable for ignoring them. This may interest you:
    http://www.potato-people.com/blog/20...ces-in-the-uk/
    Actually, we can not be held liable under the DMCA. We can however be held liable under the laws and acts are are in force here in the UK.
    Simon Green - Business Development Manager - RaveX Data
    All opinions expressed by me are my own and do not represent RaveX or any company I represent.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon-Orqoo View Post
    Actually, we can not be held liable under the DMCA. We can however be held liable under the laws and acts are are in force here in the UK.
    Of course, but ignoring the request completely can be used as proof of not being willing to cooperate. Its called bad faith and implies malice or ill will to cooperate when you know something is wrong. You don´t need to wait until they go via the UK law because you know that is costly and requires more work and money to do so. Just like US companies also comply with foreign companies and try to help them out with complaints instead of just ignoring them completely and telling them "Come to a US court".

    You can always help if you know something is wrong or not.

    I don't agree with attitudes like the above, because its exactly for this reasons they try to impose SOPA and other laws where the rest of the world will copy, and there everyone is liable and can be prosecuted. Hosting companies are on the good side, they should always try to resolve issues, otherwise they would be taken as SOPA says as intermediaries or facilitators of illegal content. Unless you want laws that make hosting, ISP and network providers liable, and guess what. The UK is the first one that will implement a similar law after the US does. As far as I remember its the UK that tried to impose censorship laws and filtering on their networks. So you can be sure they will be the first to follow if something like SOPA and PIPA eventually pass. They are not death, they are just postponed for modification. And ACTA already passed in Europe.
    Last edited by nibb; 02-02-2012 at 08:14 PM.

  24. #24
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    Looks like BurstNET took down the VPS finally.

    Thanks..

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCM View Post
    Looks like BurstNET took down the VPS finally.

    Thanks..
    I take that back, different site.

    {100-3097801} (No reply for 7 Days)

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