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  1. #1
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    Angry Bad Experience with 2co

    I recently started using 2co and it was all good and dandy. But then we got a $400 order and it came back as fraud. I was like OK and suspended the service. Later when I check my 2co balace it was -$40. So I called 2co and asked what was going on. They said it was because the regular 2co charges. But here is the thing. Even if a order goes as fraud. They do not refund the fees. I have to pay for the fees. So now I am in the -$40 range and am looking for a new way to take CC online. I would stay away from 2co if you think there is a chance for a fraud order.

  2. #2
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    Well, honestly, I'd suggest doing better fraud checking on your end before allowing a customer to process a payment as well as perhaps keeping a balance in your account just in case.
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  3. #3
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    Well you can only do so much with maxmind. We have it on some super strict settings. Everybody gets a phone call with it.

  4. #4
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    This is crazy, if the order do not go through, they should refund the fee. We have a 2co rep here, you might want to give her a pm and maybe she can wave the fee?

  5. #5
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    $40 is alot to process a chargeback, back in the day when I ran my own company I think PayPal charged $20 per chargeback if you chose to fight it and lost. I don't remember 2co charging that much about 5 years ago.

  6. #6
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    Correct

    My point exactly. If the sales is reversred and what not, I should not have to pay the fee

  7. #7
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    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by THAMAN View Post
    $40 is alot to process a chargeback, back in the day when I ran my own company I think PayPal charged $20 per chargeback if you chose to fight it and lost. I don't remember 2co charging that much about 5 years ago.
    The $40 was the processing fee. I forget what percentage 2co takes out of every sale.

  8. #8
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    My thought would be same,if it was not your order, your mistake, the money was not given to you, you do not need to pay the fee. Simple. I am going to call right now and ask wats up. Will come back and share if something is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by spencerocks View Post
    My point exactly. If the sales is reversred and what not, I should not have to pay the fee

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spencerocks View Post
    The $40 was the processing fee. I forget what percentage 2co takes out of every sale.
    It's $40 - move on. It's not worth it. $40 is nothing.

    If you had a real merchant account, it would work exactly like that too. Processing credit cards isn't like taking PayPal - you don't get the fee back if the charge is refunded - for any reason.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick H View Post
    It's $40 - move on. It's not worth it. $40 is nothing.

    If you had a real merchant account, it would work exactly like that too. Processing credit cards isn't like taking PayPal - you don't get the fee back if the charge is refunded - for any reason.
    It is alot, its $40 out of his pocket, 10 fraudulent orders and its $400.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick H View Post
    It's $40 - move on. It's not worth it. $40 is nothing.

    If you had a real merchant account, it would work exactly like that too. Processing credit cards isn't like taking PayPal - you don't get the fee back if the charge is refunded - for any reason.
    It is norhing if thats happening once in a life, what if you get 100 of these fraud order the same day? Or 1000 in a month? That is what most of the young hosters hardly makes in a month.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by THAMAN View Post
    It is alot, its $40 out of his pocket, 10 fraudulent orders and its $400.
    If you're running a sustainable business, $40 or $400 should not really be a huge hit to your income. Processing fees, chargebacks, and chargeback fees are an inherent cost of doing business. Every business owner should be prepared to pay them.

    2Checkout still has to pay processing fees on that transaction - fraudulent or not. If you feel $40 is a lot of money, then why is it that you feel 2Checkout should be out that money? Or do you feel that only large established businesses should have to suffer standard operational costs?

    Not to say I like 2Checkout, because I hate them with a burning passion, but they're not in the wrong here. It's a cost of doing business that the OP should be prepared for.

    It's frightening how many people out there think you can just throw a website online, take payments, and have absolutely no risk or investment in getting your business going. Hate to break it to everyone, but that's not how business works - and not being prepared financially to run a business is digging the grave on the business before it even starts.

    Just my 2 cents. No refunds.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriesN View Post
    It is norhing if thats happening once in a life, what if you get 100 of these fraud order the same day? Or 1000 in a month?
    If you're getting that many chargebacks, then you should be reviewing your business practices and seeing what you're doing wrong that's causing you to get all the fraud, and putting better business practices in place . Transaction fees and chargebacks are a part of doing business. If you're not prepared to handle that, you shouldn't be in business. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeriesN View Post
    That is what most of the young hosters hardly makes in a month.
    Again, if you want to run a business, you need to understand it takes a lot more than putting a website online and having absolutely no financial backing behind the business other than what you hope to earn from it.

  14. #14
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    Their fees are quite heavy but their support/service is simply amazing.

    As others have suggested there shouldn't be that many orders that get passed Maxmind that turn out to be fraud. It definitely happens once in a while but the large fees are likely due to the high payment.

    It would be nice if they replied to this thread with details about their fees though as I have experienced this also.

    Again, if you want to run a business, you need to understand it takes a lot more than putting a website online and having absolutely no financial backing behind the business other than what you hope to earn from it.
    I wouldn't say you have to invest heavily in terms of capital but without any capital there must be a greater investment of time which is much more valuable in the early days.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomex View Post
    I wouldn't say you have to invest heavily in terms of capital but without any capital there must be a greater investment of time which is much more valuable in the early days.
    Agree with you 100% there. Time, time, time, MUST be invested for a successful business. Paying closer attention to your orders, getting to know your customers better, establishing a relationship with them - that's going to make you more successful. How? Your satisfaction rates will go up, word of mouth will increase (your BEST and CHEAPEST method of advertising), and you'll be reducing fraud.

  16. #16
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    but 2co payout term is good

  17. #17
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    These are not chargebacks. What op said, some one placed order, did not pass 2co fraud check so the payment didnot went through, but 2co still charged the provider with the fees and are not willing to refund. Hows that fare? Your compitator can make you bankrupt like that. Note: Op never received the payment but was charged with the fee.

  18. #18
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    we using 2co for nearly 3yrs and did not relise that 2co got such a policy. usualy this only happen when customer do a cc chargeback then 2co will deduct the amount and the chargeback fee.

    Did you ask 2co what was the charge for? 2CO transaction fee is 5.5% of the transaction total, plus $0.45 for each transaction. if being charge for processing fee only should not be $40

  19. #19
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    What? No way. That must be the charge back. 2CO doesn't charge you a processing fee if the order is refunded or is fraud. Not last time I checked.

    Also, 5.5% + 0.45 cents from 400$ would be 22.45$ not 40$.

    So no, that cannot be the processing fee, It seems its the charge back fee.

    2CO will not charge a processing fee if the order was not approved. Im 100% sure about that. You should contact them because its not right.

    Even if they did charge orders that where not approved it should be 45 cents only, the processing fee, because if they did not took any money from the customer card they cannot charge the 5.5% fee over it. Basically if they mark an order as fraud, no money is taken from the card at all.
    Last edited by nibb; 01-28-2012 at 02:29 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibb View Post
    .....2CO doesn't charge you a processing fee if the order is refunded......
    Not true:-
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...8&postcount=14

    They will not refund the transaction fee even if you refunded the payment.
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  21. #21
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    You know what, I am going to call em tonight and if that is true and 2co do not refund the fee for refunds, I will stop using it

  22. #22
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    Edit: multi post.
    Last edited by SeriesN; 01-28-2012 at 02:43 AM.

  23. #23
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    Just found this online might explain op's fee.http://desktopserver.com/2checkout-f...n-they-let-on/

  24. #24
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    As far as i know 2checkout is the best online payment gateway and they should never charge a processing fee if the order was not approved.

  25. #25
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    Something doesn't seem right here... we get the odd charge back and never once were we billed a fee in addition to the money charged back?
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  26. #26
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    Seems that there is alot of confusion on this whole 2co thing. Maybe we should know what is truly entitled.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by spencerocks View Post
    Maybe we should know what is truly entitled.
    Maybe I'm being dense, but this makes no sense.

  28. #28
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    but i don't think 2CO charge a fee to the customer for close transaction

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Something doesn't seem right here... we get the odd charge back and never once were we billed a fee in addition to the money charged back?
    AFAIK there is a $15.00 one-time fee for any chargebacks.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Something doesn't seem right here... we get the odd charge back and never once were we billed a fee in addition to the money charged back?
    Maybe you are just lucky.. they are always fees involved in charge backs.

  31. #31
    I think we're getting mixed up here talking about 3 different situations...a chargeback, a refund and a failed fraud review 'refund'.

    I've only had 4 chargebacks in my 7 years with them and was charged $11 to dispute each one. It doesn't look like I was charged anything else (looking at history now).

    When I refund an order due to duplicate transactions or anything that requires me to go in and manually refund it, I get charged the 5.5% + $.45 for that exchange of money.

    When an order is placed and fails the fraud review which results in it showing up as 'refunded', I pay no fees or anything. This happens to me maybe once or twice per month.

  32. #32
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    Don't you think that the same way how you feel you should not be paying that $40 is the same way how 2co feels that they should not be paying that $40 ? Think about. Whose fault is it really because you have to pay that money? Yours or 2co? If you do not know, I will tell you. 100 % of the blame rests on your shoulders since you are the one responsible for your business and what sort of clients you accept. You should be glad it's only $40 you have to pay and not $400+ dollars you would have had to pay when the real owner of that card did not recognize the charge and requested a chargeback! My advice, pay it and move on and thank 2co for saving you from that headache later down the road.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    AFAIK there is a $15.00 one-time fee for any chargebacks.
    Oh! That makes sense, maybe we were charged $15.00:

    https://www.2checkout.com/documentation/op_regs_a.html

    Our chargeback rate is very, very, very small so I'm assuming we fall into the first category.

  34. #34
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    You receive a $400 order without phone verification?

    7 month ago I was order a $0.01 hostgator hosting plan and I pay through PayPal and after 30 minute they call me for phone verification
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  35. #35
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    Hi Everyone! Seems to be a lot of confusion and different situations on here. I suggest for individual account questions please email/call us in order to get specific details on your personal situation.
    Open a support ticket: https://support.2co.com/deskpro/newticket.php
    Email support: 2cosupport@2co.com
    fraud@2co.com, chargeback@2co.com, refunds@2co.com

    That being said - we do have a comprehensive pricing structure. I saw someone had posted it earlier but I will provide the link again: http://www.2checkout.com/documentation/op_regs_a.html

    If you would like to email me with specific questions I would be happy to help you or connect you to the appropriate person. Just email me at aeshelman@2co.com with your Vendor ID! Thanks

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DewlanceHosting View Post
    You receive a $400 order without phone verification?

    7 month ago I was order a $0.01 hostgator hosting plan and I pay through PayPal and after 30 minute they call me for phone verification
    Nobody is forced to do a phone check. Everyone can have their own fraud methods for verification and let me tell you something. Phone check is not a guarantee either.

    I once received an order and the phone was a fake voip line, probably also purchased with the same stolen credit card. The person will do the verification and then when you try to call again, all you will get is a ring, ring for ever. They never pick up again.

    If someone used a stolen card, he can get a phone number anywhere. This is not a guarantee either, its just an extra layer of security.

    The truth is that you will be hit with fraud depending on what type of clients you attract. Is just cost of doing business in the Internet.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Checkout_2CO View Post
    Hi Everyone! Seems to be a lot of confusion and different situations on here. I suggest for individual account questions please email/call us in order to get specific details on your personal situation.
    Open a support ticket: https://support.2co.com/deskpro/newticket.php
    Email support: 2cosupport@2co.com
    fraud@2co.com, chargeback@2co.com, refunds@2co.com

    That being said - we do have a comprehensive pricing structure. I saw someone had posted it earlier but I will provide the link again: http://www.2checkout.com/documentation/op_regs_a.html

    If you would like to email me with specific questions I would be happy to help you or connect you to the appropriate person. Just email me at aeshelman@2co.com with your Vendor ID! Thanks
    The think I don´t like about 2CO is that their fee 5.5% which is very hi has never dropped, not even for heavy merchants. This is why most people move away once they hit a XX amount of processing per month.

    Allot of third party options have appeared lately offering 4% and 5% fees. 2CO is still the most expensive one, specially for small orders.

    The other big option I see with 2CO is that they don´t really have Instant notification like PayPal has.

    If you have a third party shopping with 2CO, and the customer pays, everything ok, he has to hit the finalize button in order to confirm the payment. Its not confirmed automatically and some people just close their browser.

    Their multi language page, has some misspelling, people just don´t understand it, not sure who translated it or if they used Google Translator for it.

    The biggest issue with 2CO for hosting companies is that the recurring system just sucks. Usually customers in the hosting industry modify their order with time, this means they add new products, or addons and 2CO recurring is fixed, you cannot modify it. Instead of sending the customer a notification they confirm with the new recurring prices, you have to cancel the current recurring order and setup a new one. That is just terrible.

    And their recurring emails cannot be customized either. If your billing staff has to manually apply payments from recurring orders, he has to log into 2CO and look up each order, to see the name or email from the customer, because if you happen to have several people that have the same name, like John, you don´t know which John that recurring bill belongs too, because the emails send to Vendors contain only the name and order ID. Nothing particularly that identifies that order, like something unique which would be "email"

    I send this suggestions to 2CO before but in years they did not implemented a single suggestion or fix. Which shows they really don´t care to much about quality. There are very annoying bugs and small issues they have with anyone with 2 cell brains would discover.

    I'm impressed they don´t see them.

  38. #38
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    nibb - thank you for the insights, I apologize you feel like you have not been heard. I am excited to tell you that we are implementing a new processes that are going to open up the ability for our Sellers to influence decision making and be heard.

    I assure you we care about what our Sellers think and value the input you provide so that we can make the changes we need to. Fixes/changes, etc. might take longer than we want & are not instantaneous - but we are trying to satisfy our customers however we can & as quick as we possibly can. I will document your suggestions and pass them along to the appropriate people. Thank you again for providing them!

  39. #39
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Checkout_2CO View Post
    nibb - thank you for the insights, I apologize you feel like you have not been heard. I am excited to tell you that we are implementing a new processes that are going to open up the ability for our Sellers to influence decision making and be heard.

    I assure you we care about what our Sellers think and value the input you provide so that we can make the changes we need to. Fixes/changes, etc. might take longer than we want & are not instantaneous - but we are trying to satisfy our customers however we can & as quick as we possibly can. I will document your suggestions and pass them along to the appropriate people. Thank you again for providing them!
    You have really AWFUL support,
    one guy, Tim, he was really helpful, but another person - instead of doing some real job just throws a 1 pre-defined reply a day to ged rid of me

    Now I do have a WHMCS discount on my purchase but that does not means I can wait several days for a simple answer

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Checkout_2CO View Post
    nibb - thank you for the insights, I apologize you feel like you have not been heard. I am excited to tell you that we are implementing a new processes that are going to open up the ability for our Sellers to influence decision making and be heard.

    I assure you we care about what our Sellers think and value the input you provide so that we can make the changes we need to. Fixes/changes, etc. might take longer than we want & are not instantaneous - but we are trying to satisfy our customers however we can & as quick as we possibly can. I will document your suggestions and pass them along to the appropriate people. Thank you again for providing them!
    What I mean is a serious issue. Example, in some language it says:

    Name

    Name1
    Lastname

    And Name1 is actually the last name of the CC card. So the order fails.

    So you need to explain each client how to fill in their CC payments details on the order page because 2CO was not able to fix it correctly.

    Also suggest the numbers next to the CARD expiration months which makes it easier on the visual like

    January 01
    February 02

    I don´t know if 2CO never had a credit card on their hands but it doesn't say months !!! On the expiration there are numbers, so you are confusing people when they try to make payments because believe it or not some people don't match this with months, and some others just count incorrectly if their card is 06/12 and they put May !

    They just put the month incorrect and the order fails.

    There are allot of bugs which never where fixed.

    I do agree with someone else on support. It was good some years back. Now its absolutely awful. You are lucky to get a reply in 2 days and its usually a canned reply without a helpful answer on the issue.

    If someone wants to use a payment gateway without any support at all, then they can just use Google Checkout, cheaper, easier but of course with none support.

    I even once discovered the International phone number you have listed was not working for days. Nothing. And it was clearly listed on your website. I contacted 2CO about this and 1 day later it was working again but not even a reply about that either. They just fixed it.

    I don´t waste my time reporting issues to 2CO anymore or suggesting anything because its like talking to a wall. At least I can say that the payments DO work very well, always on schedule and on time. And some things work very well, but there are allot of stuff you guys could improve. And I'm not someone that process 100$ bucks a year either. I processed via 2checkout some nice amounts already, at least thousands I was charged in fees already but lately more and more people are preferring to pay via paypal and there is a big reason for this from a hosting perspective.

    From a hosting company, it works better for recurring services as you can make agreements and the customer is charged what you have on account for them vs fixed recurring which cannot be changed. Something useless in hosting. And as a provider you also have lower fees but the biggest advantage is no chargebacks. PayPal doesn't refund anymore people for services. I know some had horror stories with PayPal but they seem to have changed this. Customers cannot dispute intangible or services. At least its more difficult.

    This is something that 2CO seriously lacks. I was scammed several times via CC chargebacks. Never ONCE I won, even providing customer documentation, agreements signed, CC faxed, etc. Nothing makes you win a chargeback via 2CO and what is worst I was scammmed thousands via American Express with a legal US signed agreement. What did 2CO told me?

    American Express doesn't allow disputes. Simple.

    But I contacted some manager in American Express and they told me its not true. I know its hard to win an AMEX dispute but it can be done, and I had just plenty of documentation to show the customers just denied the charge on purpose to do fraud.

    I contacted 2CO and with this answer and they changed their reply and said that THEY 2CO don't allow disputes with AMEX. So they lied me the first time, and now said its a policy they had.

    So I suggest people DO not accept AMEX via 2CO because you cannot dispute. I have thought myself of getting an Amex card and start ordering thousands from 2CO stores, as I know by a fact that nobody can dispute an AMEX charge with 2CO.

    Once fraudsters find this out, they will abuse 2CO customers they will start looking for people accepting 2CO for fraud orders as its safe for them. I mean not fraudster with stolen cards, but real AMEX owners that just want to get free stuff on the Internet, all they have to do is order from 2CO and then deny all charges with the bank. You can order 50,000$ from different 2CO stores, then go to the bank and say you don't recognize 2CO on your card. Since all of them are from 2CO the bank is going to dispute all of them for the total of 50,000$ of what ever amount it was.

    2CO will just not allow any of their customers to dispute it. Not even if they where 100 stores scammed, they are all going to lose the money. Nice !!!!!

    This is serious stuff.

    About Visa and MC they allow disputes, but I once asked what documentation can you request from a customer to be safe and win a dispute and they could not tell me either. I asked them if its was enough like most others do with a signed or faxed statement and copy of CC (hidding last or first numbers) plus customer identification and even payment faxed agreement. No, they said nothing would guarantee to win a dispute.

    Basically I never knew anyone that won a dispute with 2CO either. So even if the option is there for Visa and MC, (with AMEX you just cant) you will probably never win one.

    So this is why PayPal is eating their business into 2C0. The only reason why 2CO still exists is because PayPal doesn't work in some countries yet. And once it does this customers will switch over.

    I don't see 2CO being for more years in the game with how they are doing business.

    They should:
    Improve their systems NOW
    Lower their fees, at least for XX $ amount or higher merchants
    Allow disputes or be safer to protect their customers from being scammed
    Improve customer support
    Improve for Internet services, or services, hosting, software, intangible services, or anything that is service related, as there current recurring is just awful.


    This are all valid points and are what people complain the most.
    Last edited by nibb; 02-08-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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