Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : VPS Hosting : Hosting definition questions (and help for an old guy)

[nylyon]

Noob here, and while I dig in reading up on things around here I have a problem and many questions. So first, I am not a novice, BUT unfortunately my degree in Computer Science pre-dates the internet (yea I'm getting old). So here's my problem.

I made a mistake (I got suckered by those fake review sites). I hosted a 6,000 member 35GB/month 600MB MySQL 2GB other data on a shared service (iPages) and no surprise, I'm having issues, performance, support, availability.... you get the idea.

So here I am looking to not duplicate my mistake, but remember I am old so all this newfangled terminology goes past me (did I just say newfangled?). So I have questions regarding the services that are offered, but I am sure that I need a VPS as shared is NOT going to cut it.

First, there's the Managed or Unmanaged. What am I getting for Managed? I'm comfortable working my way around the shell, installing programs, setting permissions, add-on's, and can use the tools to update software, kernels etc and what I don't know I can learn easily. I'm good with the one time events. In general what does a managed host provide.

Next there's the control panel. Again, I have no issue with the one time events but I really don't want to be so hands on that I am a single point of failure if that makes sense. So what benefits of I gain from a control panel?

What I need in a host is:
1. Someone who doesn't assume I am an idiot
2. Some sort of facility for backups (I will archive once a month or so, but I would rather be protected daily automatically)
3. Some general up/down monitoring and alerting. Maybe an e-mail or text when a monitor turns red?
4. Consistant performance. Inconsistency in anything drives me nuts (including my wife), I am fine with slight performance degradation but having a screen present in .5 second one minute then 35 seconds the next is unacceptable. It's more acceptable for a consistent 4 seconds (although better performance is always good)

And of course if you're willing to recommend, I am on a budget. My forum (wheelhorseforum com) is member supported and although my friends are generous, I would like to keep my costs to a minimal. I *think* that I can go to $45 / month BUT I would like flexibility to upsize or downsize my plan as my needs reflect.

As a final requirement, I want to run more than 1 forum. I have setup a forum for my daughter, where there is about 2 users for 1 hour per day. The volume is small, and I own 2 domain names. I am certain I can point both domain names to the same IP and reach the forums separately using virtual hosts right?

So there it is can anyone help an experienced idiot?

Thanks,

Karl

[FRH Lisa]

Hi Karl! I hope we can help you!

Originally Posted by nylyon

First, there's the Managed or Unmanaged. What am I getting for Managed? I'm comfortable working my way around the shell, installing programs, setting permissions, add-on's, and can use the tools to update software, kernels etc and what I don't know I can learn easily. I'm good with the one time events. In general what does a managed host provide.

If you're comfortable navigating the shell, and feel confident in your abilities to learn / manage new applications, then you should be fine with an un-managed or semi-managed VPS. Management generally means that you'll have someone there to help you with system administration tasks.

Next there's the control panel. Again, I have no issue with the one time events but I really don't want to be so hands on that I am a single point of failure if that makes sense. So what benefits of I gain from a control panel?

A control panel simplifies and/or automates a lot of daily tasks. Things like adding an email account, setting up webmail, managing files & permissions, and more options depending on your panel. The three most popular panels at the moment are probably cPanel, DirectAdmin, and Plesk. A discussion on which is best is pointless, as people have very passionate opinions on the matter. They all accomplish the same basic task and they all work well for most people. If cost is your primary factor, I'd recommend DirectAdmin. cPanel is a little more expensive, but it's the most popular choice out there.

You don't NEED a control panel, but most people find that they're well worth the cost.

1. Someone who doesn't assume I am an idiot
2. Some sort of facility for backups (I will archive once a month or so, but I would rather be protected daily automatically)
3. Some general up/down monitoring and alerting. Maybe an e-mail or text when a monitor turns red?
4. Consistant performance. Inconsistency in anything drives me nuts (including my wife), I am fine with slight performance degradation but having a screen present in .5 second one minute then 35 seconds the next is unacceptable. It's more acceptable for a consistent 4 seconds (although better performance is always good)

1 - Your best bet here is to read through the reviews.
2 - Many hosts perform daily backups, but the catch is that almost every host's TOS disclaim liability for backups. In other words, they'll try to keep backups, but they aren't guaranteed. The bottom line is simply that you yourself will need to keep regular backups. Thread after thread here on WHT demonstrates that no matter how reputable the host, depending on the host for backups is a recipe for disaster.
3 - Most hosts have uptime monitoring, but I recommend a third-party (neutral) provider such as Pingdom. I personally use Pingdom and they will email you when your site goes down -- and you can set the interval for checks (every minute, every 5 minutes, every hour, etc).
4 - That kind of inconsistency would be unacceptable to me as well! Unfortunately, the nature of hosting means that you will experience some minor variances in loading time. This is due to network congestion (not necessarily at the host), server load, malicious users, attacks, hardware failures, etc. Consistency is a factor of host quality, so again, I'd recommend reading through the reviews.

And of course if you're willing to recommend, I am on a budget. My forum (wheelhorseforum com) is member supported and although my friends are generous, I would like to keep my costs to a minimal. I *think* that I can go to $45 / month BUT I would like flexibility to upsize or downsize my plan as my needs reflect.

$45 / month will get you a decent VPS with your bandwidth requirements, though it's impossible to say exactly how much load your forum generates.

As a final requirement, I want to run more than 1 forum. I have setup a forum for my daughter, where there is about 2 users for 1 hour per day. The volume is small, and I own 2 domain names. I am certain I can point both domain names to the same IP and reach the forums separately using virtual hosts right?

Correct!

My suggestion is to browse through the VPS offers forum and find a few hosts in your price range. Look through the reviews here for each of them, and get a good idea of what people are saying. That's going to be a lot more effective than taking recommendations from any of us.

Good luck!

[nylyon]

So digging around I am seeing that Knownhost.com is a valued VPS. One final question (and thank you for the fantastic response). Moving off of my iPage account isn't going to be terrible, I need to setup the new environment (LAMP Stack with gd image library, IONCube etc), TAR the filesystem, export the DB, untag, set UID and GUID on the files / directories, configure the settings on MySQL (the defaults are usually not the greatest) etc...

Now, let's say that I go with Knownhost and cPanel (which is the same cost as the other panels mentioned) and I am not happy and say Adios in 3 months. Does the use of cPanel simplify the move to another VPS or would I need to perform all the tasks initially performed.


Oh, thank you for the quick reply! (can't post a smilie until 5 posts but I'll send a big ole GRIN when I can)

[kpmedia]

Originally Posted by nylyon

Does the use of cPanel simplify the move to another VPS

Yes it does!

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by nylyon

Does the use of cPanel simplify the move to another VPS or would I need to perform all the tasks initially performed.

It drasticly simplify the move to another VPS with cPanel. Restoring backups from one cPanel server to another cPanel server is really easy and most hosts will do this gladly for you for free in case that you don't want to.

[nylyon]

I am learning fast, thank you (still no smilies.... )

[fshagan]

Originally Posted by nylyon

So digging around I am seeing that Knownhost.com is a valued VPS. One final question (and thank you for the fantastic response). Moving off of my iPage account isn't going to be terrible, I need to setup the new environment (LAMP Stack with gd image library, IONCube etc), TAR the filesystem, export the DB, untag, set UID and GUID on the files / directories, configure the settings on MySQL (the defaults are usually not the greatest) etc...

Now, let's say that I go with Knownhost and cPanel (which is the same cost as the other panels mentioned) and I am not happy and say Adios in 3 months. Does the use of cPanel simplify the move to another VPS or would I need to perform all the tasks initially performed.


Oh, thank you for the quick reply! (can't post a smilie until 5 posts but I'll send a big ole GRIN when I can)

Two things ... one, moving from one cPanel host to another is very easy. I'm not sure cPanel helps if you plan to move to a DirectAdmin control panel later on; I always do it manually when going from one panel to another.

And two, if you go with KnownHost with cPanel, your VPS will already have a LAMP stack with the versions of Apache, MySQL and PHP that cPanel recommends. So you wouldn't have to worry about setting up the VPS, and you can start with moving the site ... after the VPS is secure.

Your first order of business, though, should be to tell KnownHost that you want them to "harden" the VPS by moving SSH to a new port, install CSF/LFD (a software firewall that is configured from within cPanel's "Web Host Manager", or WHM, program), and disable root logins in favor of a username you pick. These three things help reduce the brute force attacks against your server ... you'll get dozens the first day it is up on SSH on port 22 using the username "root". CSF/LFD can be configured to automatically add the attacking IP addresses to the "IP Tables" blacklist, so the attackers cannot just hammer away until they guess your password.

After that is done, move your forum to the new server.

[nylyon]

Fabulous information, I thought that I would need to install all that myself. I'm sure some of the extensions that I need I will need to add (gd, IONCube etc) but I'ts good to know that LAMP will be there, although I can install I would much rather have it there to begin with. Thank you, great information and makes perfect sense.

[ControlVM Technology]

cpanel save you a lot of manual work but you need manual compilation of apache and tweaking for php setting.
Since you have experience, i don't think these are difficult for you.
Your forum looks interesting.

[FRH Lisa]

Originally Posted by nylyon

Now, let's say that I go with Knownhost and cPanel (which is the same cost as the other panels mentioned) and I am not happy and say Adios in 3 months. Does the use of cPanel simplify the move to another VPS or would I need to perform all the tasks initially performed.

Happy to help! Remember, we were all new at this once!

As others have said, yes, a cPanel-to-cPanel move makes things easier. Many VPS providers will do basic moves for no additional charge, and this is definitely something you should ask your chosen host about. There will still be some manual tweaking left to do, but based on your post above I think you'll be fine.

The server hardening suggestion put forth by another poster is an excellent one. Think of this as adding a deadbolt to your front door. It won't stop all attacks, but it will be a major improvement to your system's security.

Might I also suggest that you buy your VPS a month or so ahead of time? This will give you the opportunity to play around and "get your feet wet" before you dive in and move your site over. I suggest this because if you play around and break something, it's a very simple process to re-install the base OS on most VPSes. Seriously - most providers do this in a matter of minutes with a single (well, ok, maybe two!) click. This gives you a lot of freedom to explore and test your knowledge without the risk of breaking your site.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask! No matter which host you choose, there are a lot of experienced people here happy to share our knowledge!

[tentimes]

My 2 cents: With someone of your abilities you could probably do without a control panel. If you do get one then consider webmin. Burstnet are cheap ($4.99/month starter I use as a second development server), pretty reliable (apart from a very rare outtage yesterday) and they have webmin ready to download to your root folder - it's just a matter of installing it from the command line (just google install webmin). Webmin is a free control panel, though not the easiest to use, but ok nonetheless.

I wouldn't rule out managing it yourself not least because you learn a LOT and also it's great fun. Backups at burstnet appear to be free even on the cheapest plan, and really easy to make from the control panel. You can also just start afresh if you want by putting a new OS on it (1 minute job and, again, just click on something in their control panel). Again, that is free and you can re-install the OS any time you want. I just did about 5 times when trying to get Ruby on Rails working on Ubuntu. You might find yourself bitten by another programming bug in the process

You sound to me like you enjoy computers, and I just thought that maybe spending more than the server per month on a web panel might not be the best thing.

Just dive in! It's the best fun and learning experience I have had since doing my first degree (20 years ago) and now that I can't work it gives me hours of fun.

Oh and one other thing, don;t forget the IRC channels for help. Forums are great, but it's much faster (and friendlier) getting help on places like (for me) #rvm,#rails,#linode (for my main server).

If you are willing to spend a bit more ($19.99/month) then check out linode. They have the most amazing commmunity, help forums, how-to's (that's mostly where I learned) and IRC chatroom for live help. It costs another $5/month for backups, but as this is my main server I pay for that too. If you read their forums you will see that Linode users are extremely happy. I think they are the best in the business at what they do.

Have fun! I envy you starting out on VPS fresh - it's a great ride

P.S. All VPS have a command type control panel built in for free. This does the partitioning, OS reintalling and many other features. In Linode it also has a DNS manager, which you would need webmin for at Burstnet (well, I haven't learned it from the command line and I suppose you could do it from there, though I simply point my DNS from my naem provider to my server and it just works). There is lots of funstionality on this free interface for managing the VPS. You might find it is all you need, especially since Burstnet already setup Apache for you in the OS install.

P.P.S. I meant IRC is friendlier in the sense you are talking to people live No dig at forums.

[nylyon]

Originally Posted by fshagan

Your first order of business, though, should be to tell KnownHost that you want them to "harden" the VPS by moving SSH to a new port, install CSF/LFD (a software firewall that is configured from within cPanel's "Web Host Manager", or WHM, program), and disable root logins in favor of a username you pick. These three things help reduce the brute force attacks against your server ... you'll get dozens the first day it is up on SSH on port 22 using the username "root". CSF/LFD can be configured to automatically add the attacking IP addresses to the "IP Tables" blacklist, so the attackers cannot just hammer away until they guess your password.

After that is done, move your forum to the new server.

I bought the VPS and CSF/LFD was installed and enabled, SSH is not on port 22, and I disabled root login, adding another account with full sudo priv.

I have already moved 1 forum and another looks good.

Thank you all for your help, I have learned a TON! <-- I can do smilies now

[fshagan]

Originally Posted by nylyon

I bought the VPS and CSF/LFD was installed and enabled, SSH is not on port 22, and I disabled root login, adding another account with full sudo priv.

I have already moved 1 forum and another looks good.

Thank you all for your help, I have learned a TON! <-- I can do smilies now

Fantastic! KnownHost does a good job of responding quickly to tickets, at least in my limited experience with them (I was just helping a friend set up his system, but they impressed me in that short period).