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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    I agree with you there about unused/wasted IP space... Look at most universities or some companies like Ford... Many of them have enough IPs to apply a /24 to each system they operate or more.
    They are not the only one's, but there was insane waste of assigning allocations in the early days. If so inclined, you can find literally THOUSANDS of companies or IPv4 space not in use in just ARIN jurisdiction that are defunct and have a /16 or /20 whatever. Some even much larger than that. You also see notes where ARIN has tried to contact the P.O.C. and not gotten a reply in years.

    In short, there is literally 5-10 years of IPv4 space EASILY in ARIN alone that could/should be reclaimed and reassigned. Who knows in regards to all of those other regional's. ARIN said they are apparently not going to do that however, as they want the web to inch towards IPv6 adoption.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barefootsies View Post
    Please re-read my remarks in post #20 of this thread.

    My replies are on topic in regards to the subject matter of SEO and misconceptions. They are not directed at any particular web hosting company (in this thread or otherwise), their policies, or beliefs in SEO voodoo.

    Thank you.
    Speaking from my own experience, having a dedicate IP [or not], doesn't affect SEO any more than whether I brush my teeth within 5, or 10 minutes of waking up.

    The only real reason I've ever seen people wanting "multiple 'class c' IPs" is to try and disassociate sites in search engines so that they're not ranked collectively. Essentially in these situations the individuals were trying to "game" the system and artificially inflate their rankings.

    I have yet to see anybody want multiple IP addresses for anything other than that, but that isn't to say there aren't other rationals out there.

    There are two distinct issues here though, that would need to be clearly separated for discussion imho.

    Simply having an IP that is all your own (i.e. dedicated) versus having IPs of a different 'c class'.

    There are 'seo providers' that will give you a lot of 'class c' IP addresses - but they aren't dedicated (i.e. you share them with others). Some swear by this, and then others say it doesn't work because they are not dedicated.

    At the end of the day 'SEO' isn't a clearly defined science and there are a LOT of variables. The only ones who really know are the ones who created/updated/and maintain the algorithms and I don't see them spelling it out anytime soon.

    Best of luck, believers and disbelivers alike. There is a lot that goes into 'seo', quite a bit more than simply whether you're on a shared/dedicated IP or you have multiple from different or the same 'c class'.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    The only real reason I've ever seen people wanting "multiple 'class c' IPs" is to try and disassociate sites in search engines so that they're not ranked collectively. Essentially in these situations the individuals were trying to "game" the system and artificially inflate their rankings.
    Correct. That is the whole point.

    The same reason some want a VPN in other cities, states, or countries. So they can also "game the system". Whether that is for Craigslist accounts, to pass a MaxMind fraud check, hide your true location, watch a TV show in a country where it is banned by the government, or whatever. There is much of this that goes on in regards to the industry on a daily basis.

    Whether you agree with the motives, or malicious intent, behind it is a completely separate issue. Additionally, not relevant to SEO discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    At the end of the day 'SEO' isn't a clearly defined science and there are a LOT of variables. The only ones who really know are the ones who created/updated/and maintain the algorithms and I don't see them spelling it out anytime soon.

    Best of luck, believers and disbelivers alike. There is a lot that goes into 'seo', quite a bit more than simply whether you're on a shared/dedicated IP or you have multiple from different or the same 'c class'.
    I have said this myself repeatedly. There is a lot more to "seo" that just getting some different Class C subnets. If you are not going to do ALL of those steps needed, then it's a fool's errand. Do it all, or do not bother. To do it correctly, you really must take the time and follow the process.
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  4. #29
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    At least we agree on some of this .
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  5. #30
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    IP addresses have nothing to do with SEO. It's a communications protocol, not a system of isolation and separation.

    If you really want good "SEO", then quit writing spammy/fake junk, organize the content better, present it well, and make yourself useful in the online community. That alone is the problem -- the "SEO hosting" users are just spammers looking for cheats. IP addresses are not magic fairy dust to sprinkle on websites to make them grow.

    An IP address is just the tool used to allow for communication, and with them being a finite resource, they should not be wasted on myths.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    That alone is the problem -- the "SEO hosting" users are just spammers looking for cheats.
    Right. The problem is not that those 'tactics' actually work. It's that some web hosting companies frown on those 'gaming of the system' tactics, and fall back on ARIN justification as the cop out simply because 'they' do not believe it works because Matt Cutts, or some trade magazine, said so.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    IP addresses are not magic fairy dust to sprinkle on websites to make them grow.
    No one has said that IP's, or different class c's were magic fairy dust. As a matter of fact, both myself and the other chappie, have repeatedly said otherwise. They are but one piece in the puzzle that can effectively be used to 'game the system' in SEO for those who do not want to do it long tail, and spend the time and effort to do all that is required.

    In summary, these "seo threads" often muddy the water with people's personal beliefs on the whole 'gaming of the system' or short cutting via IP's in conjunction with all of the other things you must do. It is not that those things work, which they obviously do and have for some time. It is that some web hosting companies have a 'moral' objection to it.

    I do not care if someone frowns upon it, and claims that it is a waste of resources. As a web hosting company, you can choose to manage your resources and IP space any way you see fit. However, the problem in these threads is you should (according to their beliefs) do traditional, long tail, seo where you make a quality website, spend the time doing keyword laden posts, to push a product and get there the same as everyone else. No do the short cut because you think it is 'spammy'.

    That is a personal opinion. Nothing more.

    As has been said many times in this, and other threads. An IP, or SEO IP's over different Class C's are not going to give you magic SEO juice. There are many other steps that you have to do if you are looking to 'game the system'. If you do not do those other steps, it is fodder. SEO is about a lot more than some IP's and I do not see anyone in this thread saying that magic IP's will give you killer SEO rankings. It is but ONE of many pieces needed if you want to go this route.

    /2cts
    Last edited by BlazingSwitch; 01-28-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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  7. #32
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    I think its not such a matter of if IP's are better for SEO or how many IP's are left out there. It's what the customer requested.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman153 View Post
    I think its not such a matter of if IP's are better for SEO or how many IP's are left out there. It's what the customer requested.
    Well, that is where the conflict comes in.

    1. There are a number of ISP's who believe this use of IP's is wasteful.
    2. They have a moral objection in regards to 'gaming the system'.
    3. Many will refer to ARIN/RIPE/etc. citing the use of IP's for SEO is not one of the 'justification' allowances.
    4. Some do not believe it works.

    As you can see from the above, many (not all) are opinions and personal belief more than actual facts. Typically what you find is those web hosting companies who do NOT have a lot of IP space for this sort of usage from the get go will try and 'educate' clients against what they want just because they do not want to do it.

    It would be refreshing to see that same sort of push back when a client wants a Quad Core with a 100MBit pipe. You review their actual usage, and they could probably get by on an Atom with 5000GB of bandwidth in the month. Yet I would bet 9 of 10 hosting companies would sell them the Quad if the client insisted they want/need it. Despite they would barely use 1% of the resources.

    But I digress....

    This discussion will go round and round as many hosting companies just believe this is pure waste, and nothing will change their mind. As I said, if 'gaming the system' did not work, you would not have people coming to hosting companies asking for it. Hosting companies do not have to persuade people to ask for these IP's, convince them, nor upsell them. They come through the door ASKING for them. You can choose to fill the demand and sell to them, or not.

    Regardless of your opinion on the matter, IP's are a resource. You can turn them into a profit center, or you can just sit on them and be a dandy.

    Sit on your /20 and be happy that you have a /20 or rent it out and make a few thousand dollars off it, monthly recurring, for a few months. When you are looking at making $50-100.00 per server monthly recurring, or looking at leasing out some IP space you are not using and make $3000-4000.00 for the same month. It's easy to see why some see IP's as a profit center to help grow their business. As I said, this is a simple illustration of IP's usage.

    Ultimately, a business (web hosting or otherwise) is about making money. When there is demand for something, fill the demand.

    /2cts
    Last edited by BlazingSwitch; 01-28-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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  9. #34
    Thanks all, I was finally able to convince the client not to go for multiple IPs after all.. ! :-)

    The client too did some of his own reasearch and found out that some of the "SEO hosts" have IPs that are blacklisted, so decided not to go with them and host all domains on a single reseller package.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by vkapadia View Post

    The client too did some of his own reasearch and found out that some of the "SEO hosts" have IPs that are blacklisted, so decided not to go with them and host all domains on a single reseller package.
    That can happen. Although, it does not need to be an 'seo host' in regards to the BL'd IP's. It can happen anywhere.

    Often times, in regards to SEO, it is that host actually allows those link blasting programs. I think the name of them is blocked or banned on WHT, so I am not going to bother typing it out. But essentially, we are talking about those programs that just spam links all over the place. All the same, it sounds like you took care of your client and all is well.

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  11. #36
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    That is a personal opinion. Nothing more.
    The problem is that many of these "opinions" (stating IP is NOT helpful for SEO) come from the organizations that determine how ranking works in search engines. You have to be massively head-up-butt to think the information released by Matt Cutts (as one example) is to be doubted and dismissed. You really only do so at your own peril.

    And I guess that's par for the course -- the kiddies (mostly young 20s/teens males) who want to spam are generally stubborn anyway, filled with the idea that they know more than adults and everybody else. Dumb kids eventually learn. If we had enough IPv4 space, we'd surely let them foolishly piss away their money on IP addresses. After all, it's an easy way to collect money from suckers, which is why "SEO hosting" exists at all. You found a way to collect a premium bounty on what's basically just cheap shared hosting. But we don't have unlimited IPv4 space, so we can't keep at this.

    When you are looking at making $50-100.00 per server monthly recurring, or looking at leasing out some IP space you are not using and make $3000-4000.00 for the same month. It's easy to see why some see IP's as a profit center to help grow their business.
    This really says everything anybody needs to know.

    IP has nothing to do with SEO. But the silly idea of IP=SEO brings in profits to hosts willing to (ab)use IPv4. That's all this is. This is basically an admission that IP doesn't help SEO, but is simply a way to pocket a few extra bucks due to somebody else's lack of knowledge -- either due to ignorance (don't know any better) or stupidity (willingly choose to be ignorant).

    .
    Last edited by kpmedia; 01-28-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    You have to be massively head-up-butt to think the information released by Matt Cutts (as one example) is to be doubted and dismissed. You really only do so at your own peril.
    I have been a webmaster longer than I have been in hosting, and I can tell you that Matt Cutts (or anyone in a position like that) is not going to give you a road map. Believing him blindly is pure naive, as proven time and again by SEO companies out there. I am not saying hosting, I am talking about consultants.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    I guess that's par for the course -- the kiddies who want to spam are generally stubborn anyway, filled with the idea that they know more than adults and everybody else.
    Your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    If we had enough IPv4 space, we'd surely let them foolishly piss away their money on IP addresses. After all, it's an easy way to collect money from suckers
    You manage to do it in other ways. Selling people who only need a Dual Core Atom, with 3000GB of bandwidth a Quad Core with 100MBit because they ask/demand for it. Even though their actual usage and traffic would say they need a lower end machine, you sell them a higher end one because that is what they want.

    We can play these silly reindeer games all day long. But in the end it really comes down to your opinion on the matter. You call some of the various IP usage a scam, I call selling people a Quad with a huge pipe when they really only NEED an Atom a scam.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    This really says everything anybody needs to know. IP has nothing to do with SEO. But the silly idea of IP=SEO brings in profits to hosts willing to (ab)use IPv4. That's all this is. This is basically an admission that IP doesn't help SEO, but is simply a way to turn a few extra bucks.
    Incorrect. That is nothing more than you trying to twist the words of myself, and others, to try and prove your point. That quote above you are taking completely out of context because it was not in reference to SEO/link building as it related to this discussion at all, but the usage of IP's as a profit center, or resource. You having to stoop to new lows to try and prove your point of view by twisting words, and taking things our of context, just reinforces how narrow minded you are on the subject. No offense.

    As I stated earlier, hosts who do not have the resources to do SEO hosting will always claim it doesn't work. You have admitted you do not have the resources, hence proving my point. Additionally, I said those who are naive and just believe what Matt Cutts, or some trade mag said at some point would simply parrot the same thing because they can't compete. Again, you've admitted that as well, further proving my point.

    In conclusion, based on your history I can see that you like to argue on this topic every time the subject comes up, so it is crystal clear that you believe everyone else is wrong and you're right. Nothing is going to change your mind regardless of what SEO consultants and experts on the subject say. Those who make their living DOING seo for others.

    That's fine. It's a free country, believe what you like. However, just because you want to scream the loudest to make your point, will not make your point of view any more correct. When the next thread comes up on this subject, you'll be right back there rehashing the same talking points. I guess you are just that determined to be 'right'.
    Last edited by BlazingSwitch; 01-28-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barefootsies View Post
    so it is crystal clear that you believe everyone else is wrong and you're right.
    Yessir.

    And the reasoning is this:
    - I have science, facts, and authoritative sources to back up my statements.
    - And you (and others like you) have ... nothing*.

    * Aside from IP space or spammy/scammy "SEO services" to sell, that is.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Yessir.

    And the reasoning is this:
    - I have science, facts, and authoritative sources to back up my statements.
    - And you (and others like you) have ... nothing*.

    * Aside from IP space or spammy/scammy "SEO services" to sell, that is.
    Actually, you have not backed up anything with any 'science' and your opinion is far from it.

    That being said, it's pointless for others on WHT to attempt to have an engaging, intelligent discussion on the matter with you. Your mind is made up on this subject (as well as many others). You are just going to keep trying to screaming the loudest, and start the name calling as you have repeatedly shown over and again in these threads.

    I guess when you can't actually prove a point, resort to name calling. Sadly, the cliche seems to hold true... Ignorance is bliss.

    /2cts
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  15. #40

    Thumbs up

    Wow! who would have guessed that there are different opinions to the subject of using multiple IP's. Interesting topic guys. Thanks for sharing your views. Made me think of my own game plan as well.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by webdesignms View Post
    Wow! who would have guessed that there are different opinions to the subject of using multiple IP's. Interesting topic guys. Thanks for sharing your views. Made me think of my own game plan as well.
    I am all for an intelligence discussion on the topic with those who can keep a civil tone and demeanor. As I stated, I have been a webmaster for 13+ years, and long before getting into the web hosting industry. That means my 'opinion' is actually based on real world experience. Not just repeating web lore.

    Additionally, I do not have a problem with Matt Cutts or alike. However, these guys have also provide DIS-information in the past. It is well known their position in regards to 'gaming the system', buying links, and so forth. Common sense tells you that they are not going to admit that gaming this or that will work. If they catch you, they will penalize you.

    Lastly, if I were truly interested in learning how to properly do SEO and all of the steps that go into it, I would go and register at SEO forum(s). Read, read, and read some more as it will take time to learn. These people make their living on SEO and would be in the best position, again from actual EXPERIENCE, to tell you what does and does not work.

    They would be in the position to best answer your questions.
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  17. #42

    Well Said

    Quote Originally Posted by Barefootsies View Post
    I am all for an intelligence discussion on the topic with those who can keep a civil tone and demeanor. As I stated, I have been a webmaster for 13+ years, and long before getting into the web hosting industry. That means my 'opinion' is actually based on real world experience. Not just repeating web lore.

    Additionally, I do not have a problem with Matt Cutts or alike. However, these guys have also provide DIS-information in the past. It is well known their position in regards to 'gaming the system', buying links, and so forth. Common sense tells you that they are not going to admit that gaming this or that will work. If they catch you, they will penalize you.

    Lastly, if I were truly interested in learning how to properly do SEO and all of the steps that go into it, I would go and register at SEO forum(s). Read, read, and read some more as it will take time to learn. These people make their living on SEO and would be in the best position, again from actual EXPERIENCE, to tell you what does and does not work.

    They would be in the position to best answer your questions.
    Well said and I agree.

  18. #43
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    Have you ever noticed many of the people starting these threads are always "newbies" (user title). Why not just use your main handle?

    I find it hard to believe (although possible) these people are all "new" and coming looking for these hosting solutions.


  19. #44
    What exactly are c-class IPs? (as far as SEO hosting goes)

    I hear 2 different terms.

    1) Where the first octet is 192 and above
    2) What the third octet is the same/different (depending on who you listen to regarding linking to either same or different c-class IP)

    All I know is I have a wordpress blog that has "I can delete a post" as the only entry and I have many spam post telling me that they can give me better SEO or knows someone who has SEO hosting with C-class IPs and here is the special link...yada yada yada. I think my own SEO is pretty damn good if I am getting links for my blog with only 5 words

    what, if anything, does an IP address have to do with SEO? (for those who believe it has some weight in SE algorithms)

  20. #45
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    You would simply get a reseller account and order 12 dedicated ips. Generally its not an issue.
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