Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Hosting : i2C - Internet Infrastructure Coalition : Help Save The Hosting Industry

[mrcjdawson]

It's time to get motivated and get involved!


This industry needs to start a discussion about public policy and its effect on the web hosting industry. I'm so thankful that the team at WHT is dedicating a subforum to Hosting Legislation and Policies so that we can do just that. The web hosting industry is under threat by a number of different forces. Congress is drafting laws that subvert due process and bring great risk to U.S. based hosts and their clients by imposing liability for customer content on them and imposing data retention obligations that will require most hosts to upgrade to equipment costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. In areas of security, privacy and intellectual property, all eyes are on our industry right now, and we have no seat at the table and no voice with which to explain both how we can help solve problems and what proposed solutions would break the back of our industry. When legislators seek to solve problems brought to them by others, it will be easiest for them to try to solve those problems by looking to the MPAA, RIAA and other organizations whose interests may be directly opposed to ours - simply because we weren't there to represent ourselves and even voice our concerns about the repercussions of them doing so.


This idea started with an event:

On Monday the 8th at HostingCon we put together an event called Save Hosting! and ended up with a packed room. We think it can be the kickoff to something important. At Save Hosting! we tried to shed light on the things we are concerned about as a group, to try to bring awareness to the industry collectively.


What we did next:

Our industry must find a way to speak with one voice. The meeting demonstrated that we have the strength to coalesce around collective ideas and 'get on the same page' about the paths the industry needs to take to grow and move forward.

Since then, energized industry professionals have come up to me and offer their time and ideas to get something kickstarted. We’ve already started, and here is what we're going to do next.


We ARE getting organized:

- We’re building a website - to spread the word about the issues at hand and why they matter. We will go into the specific problems, but also detail how these impact people directly in laymen terms. The website will be at SaveHosting.org, and when it launches it will mark the formation of the Save Hosting Coalition. We will have a lot more information about what that is, and what we will need from you then, when the site launches.

- We’re meeting again the week of September 26th at HostingTransformation. Those of us attending HTS are getting together to move this effort forward, we will include those not attending in a simultaneous conference call.

- We’re getting educated. Links to the two bills we feel most seriously threaten our industry are below. Read them.

Protect IP: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...-112s968rs.pdf

Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act of 2011: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...112s1308is.pdf


What we need from you now:

We've got an incredibly bright crowd here on WebHostingTalk. Hosting professionals of all shapes and sizes need to voice their opinion on the direction of this effort - and how individual policies are poised to affect us. Let's get engaged and start talking!

[Zhang]

I would lvoe to support you on that, but i (and for sure many others too) will hesistate to do that since what the US consider Child pornography is partly complete useless and not any reality (drawn or "styled to look under 18")

Zhang

[mrcjdawson]

Originally Posted by Zhang

I would lvoe to support you on that, but i (and for sure many others too) will hesistate to do that since what the US consider Child pornography is partly complete useless and not any reality (drawn or "styled to look under 18")

Zhang

Thanks for your comment. We are not positing anything about child pornography in this bill, or the government's position on it. The part of that particular bill (that was named specifically so that people would have a hard time being anything but for it) that specifically is of concern for hosting providers has to do with the data retention provision. As in, the requirement that hosts be able to keep and produce up to 18 months of access logs for any of the accounts on their network.

If hosts are forced to keep 18 months of records, how will it be done? At whose security liability? At whose expense? A friend of mine called it the "EMC bailout bill". If we don't start talking about things like this and get mobilized to get our voices heard about the legislation that's out there we have the potential for our industry to be significantly rocked when some of this stuff passes.

The two examples I gave are just that - examples. I have a list of well over 30 bills that affect the hosting Industry that Congress is considering. And scarier than the ones we know about are the ones we don't.

[EDIS]

If that data logging would come through here (which is currently unlikely) we have plans in place to move to another, logging free, destination.

Most of time it is sadly rather useless to fight with your own government

William

[mrcjdawson]

Originally Posted by EDIS

If that data logging would come through here (which is currently unlikely) we have plans in place to move to another, logging free, destination.

Most of time it is sadly rather useless to fight with your own government

William

Ah, see this is where I disagree!

Every place has crazy laws - some of them bad. The United States is obviously no exception.

But here's the thing - the federal government aren't talking about creating laws that are designed to hurt web hosting businesses or drive businesses to other countries. That's just a repercussion of trying to make legislation that affects an industry they aren't talking to.

The government is being brought problems - by content creators like the MPAA and RIAA, by law enforcement and by plenty of others. The problems they are being asked to solve are often serious and important and can't just be shrugged off.

So legislators set about trying to fix the problems that are brought to their attention, and they do it by drawing upon what they know and assuming the rest. A lot of times in our industry they assume wrong.

We don't need to act as though we have a big target on our backs and play the victim game -- we just need to get smart and draw together. I personally think that if this industry bands together and finds a singular voice with which to express our concerns about pending legislation we'll get legislators saying "Where have you been all these years? We've needed your perspective here!"

I honestly don't think I'm being too optimistic here. There are strength in numbers, and if we use our numbers to our advantage I think we can be welcomed to a seat at the table and we can change things for the better.

[Dave Zan]

Christian, have you or "your" group retained someone with lobby experience? Think similar to the Internet Commerce Association, just one dedicated to hosting providers.

Like anything, though, it takes money to get things going...

[andy1090]

i would support you Get A Face Book Page


From Uk

[cartika-andrew]

Hi Christian,

though I absolutely agree with what you are doing and why - specifically with the purpose and intent of having influence from BOTH sides of the coin on decisions like this. At the end of the day, most of the things being proposed here have been needed in this industry for a LONG time. Is an 18 month retention of access logs for all accounts excessive? well, maybe it is. But, is zero retention of access logs reasonable? well no, that absolutely is not and that is what the "other" side has been facing for a long time.. A happy medium needs to be found.

Unfortunately, we as an industry are going to start paying for our sins. Too long have many acted and run their business with zero consideration for the good of the industry, their customers and society on a whole. The things that have gone on in this industry are flat out scary and frankly, considering this industries importance in the future of society on the whole, it is flat out embarrassing sometimes.

as for who will foot the bill? well sadly, we all will. Governments, hosting providers, hosting customers - everyone. But, end of the day, you cannot have an industry - especially not one whose primary purpose is to manage, house and deliver data - be run on the borderline of legal for all of these years. Some of us have been screaming for years that the tactics in this industry are going to end - not a matter of when - but if.. for those companies that ran their businesses properly - these adjustments (for both the providers and their customers) are small adjustments really...

SOOOOOO

I am 100% onboard and would LOVE to participate - but, the objective needs to be to 2 fold. 1) to protect our interests as an industry and negotiate fair compromises to serious and legitimate societal concerns and 2) to negotiate and work with opposing parties with the express intent of improving our industry and protecting society on the whole. Our industry should be the beacon for the future - and it certainly is not at that point today...

I "think" based on your comments, that you would agree with my points above - if you do, count me in...

1 last thing - and this is just a recommendation.. "savehosting" might not be appropriate. The business of storing, managing and delivering data is just going to grow- this industry is not going anywhere..what we really need is a hosting industry association. I meant to start something like this quite awhile ago - have a really good domain name and everything for this. who has the time though right so, if we are all on the same page, I would happily donate the domain name as well as the hosting association name and acronym we developed awhile back for very similar purposes as what you are trying to do here

Even if we dont fundamentally agree - I absolutely appreciate what you are doing and your efforts

[AL-Benjamin]

I would very much support this however the above is mostly in reference to US law. I am reasonably well versed in US law but clearly being from the UK I am more in line with UK /Euro policy.

However(!) this is a global business, and therefore I think we need to think globally as threats can come from both sides of the atlantic to where 'responsibilty' gets pinned.

[cartika-andrew]

Originally Posted by AL-Benjamin

I would very much support this however the above is mostly in reference to US law. I am reasonably well versed in US law but clearly being from the UK I am more in line with UK /Euro policy.

However(!) this is a global business, and therefore I think we need to think globally as threats can come from both sides of the atlantic to where 'responsibilty' gets pinned.

absolutely correct and exactly how I see things. This is not a matter of "oh, this will only impact the United States" - these sorts of laws are coming everywhere eventually. We can either be a part of making and forming these laws (which frankly, many of them are needed) - or we can sit back and be at the mercy of the law makers who are likely making rash and uneducated decisions.

Frankly, a global co-operation of good providers - eager to police their own industry and work in co-operation with the various global government bodies to create policies, regulations and protocols - will have a HUGE edge over any single government body.

[AL-Benjamin]

Great - sorry if I'm missing the point here though; how are we influencing this?

[cartika-andrew]

Originally Posted by AL-Benjamin

Great - sorry if I'm missing the point here though; how are we influencing this?

right now, we arent....

[AL-Benjamin]

Originally Posted by cartika-andrew

right now, we arent....

Ok (and again I'm totally with you) so how do we start?

Do we need a trade association for example?

[cartika-andrew]

Originally Posted by AL-Benjamin

Ok (and again I'm totally with you) so how do we start?

Do we need a trade association for example?

thats what I posted previously - but, I think the name "savehosting" might not be the right one - again, just my opinion...

[AL-Benjamin]

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure thats what the OP was aiming for though.