Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Colocation and Data Centers : For those who thought of a home datacenter with FIOS

[houkouonchi]

I know a couple people have complicated doing this. I thought it might be doable if it was a backup server or running game-servers or something other that wasn't super SLA dependent but I have had great reliability with Verizon.

Anyway after 6 months of fighting with VZ (yeah that right there makes this not a good solution) I was finally able to get their 150/35 package. From other people i heard this package was actually provisioned at 150/65 (as that is what it was originally advertised as) but its actually provisioned at 150/75

I have to say I am damn impressed with the service. The latency and speeds are AWESOME.

Single threaded download:

root@dekabutsu: 01:41 PM :~# wget -O /dev/null http://208.97.140.21/5tb.bin
--13:41:44--  http://208.97.140.21/5tb.bin
           => `/dev/null'
Connecting to 208.97.140.21:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 5,497,558,138,880 (5.0T) [application/octet-stream]
  
 0% [                                                               ] 211,070,704   18.08M/s ETA 86:53:26

Single threaded upload (downloading from off-site server):

# wget -O /dev/null http://fios1.houkouonchi.jp/2gb.bin
--13:40:22--  http://fios1.houkouonchi.jp/2gb.bin
           => `/dev/null'
Resolving fios1.houkouonchi.jp... 71.110.63.2
Connecting to fios1.houkouonchi.jp|71.110.63.2|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 1,992,294,400 (1.9G) [application/octet-stream]
  
 3% [=>                                                             ] 64,518,238     8.73M/s    ETA 03:35

The thing I was most impressed with is the latency:

root@dekabutsu: 10:48 PM :~# ping 4.2.2.1
PING 4.2.2.1 (4.2.2.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=252 time=3.14 ms
64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=252 time=3.30 ms
64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=252 time=3.27 ms
64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=252 time=3.33 ms
64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=252 time=3.28 ms
^C
--- 4.2.2.1 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4006ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 3.143/3.268/3.334/0.065 ms

root@dekabutsu: 10:48 PM :~# traceroute -I 4.2.2.1
traceroute to vnsc-pri.sys.gtei.net (4.2.2.1), 30 hops max, 46 byte packets
 1  router.houkouonchi.jp (1.1.1.1)  0.159 ms  0.462 ms  0.498 ms
 2  L103.LSANCA-DSL-29.verizon-gni.net (71.110.63.1)  1.457 ms  1.777 ms  2.062 ms
 3  G0-3-1-7.LSANCA-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net (130.81.140.224)  6.018 ms  24.649 ms  20.192 ms
 4  so-4-1-0-0.LAX01-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net (130.81.151.246)  5.638 ms  5.639 ms  5.613 ms
 5  0.so-1-3-0.XL3.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.114.145)  5.987 ms  5.870 ms  5.908 ms
 6  0.xe-10-0-0.BR1.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.115.90)  2.822 ms 0.ae3.BR3.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.113.185)  61.153 ms 0.xe-10-0-0.BR1.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.115.90)  3.559 ms
 7  4.68.63.245 (4.68.63.245)  86.884 ms  131.661 ms  69.900 ms
 8  ae-11-60.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.144.3)  5.953 ms * *
 9  vnsc-pri.sys.gtei.net (4.2.2.1)  3.137 ms  3.059 ms  3.195 ms

root@dekabutsu: 10:49 PM :~# traceroute -I www.dreamhost.com
traceroute to dreamhost.com (208.97.187.204), 30 hops max, 46 byte packets
 1  router.houkouonchi.jp (1.1.1.1)  0.160 ms  0.147 ms  0.508 ms
 2  L103.LSANCA-DSL-29.verizon-gni.net (71.110.63.1)  1.265 ms  1.051 ms  0.871 ms
 3  G0-3-1-7.LSANCA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.146.60)  1.583 ms  1.434 ms  1.347 ms
 4  so-6-0-0-0.LAX01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.29.126)  2.019 ms  2.219 ms  1.986 ms
 5  0.so-1-3-0.XL4.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.114.149)  2.396 ms  2.386 ms  2.370 ms
 6  0.xe-11-0-0.BR1.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.115.94)  2.187 ms  2.280 ms  2.215 ms
 7  te7-2.ccr02.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.13.85)  3.191 ms  2.377 ms  2.387 ms
 8  te0-2-0-2.ccr21.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.30.197)  2.542 ms  2.687 ms  2.558 ms
 9  te7-1.mpd03.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.28.142)  5.510 ms  5.552 ms  5.468 ms
10  38.122.20.218 (38.122.20.218)  2.901 ms  2.961 ms  3.734 ms
11  ip-66-33-201-114.dreamhost.com (66.33.201.114)  6.840 ms  8.505 ms  5.765 ms
12  dreamhost.com (208.97.187.204)  2.557 ms  2.543 ms  2.467 ms

I have seen data center connections with worst latency than this. Very impressive for a $200/month service you can have in your home. Also in my case they installed this huge SOHO ONT which supports 8 phone lines and two data circuits. I still have another ONT as I used to have two 35/35 connections until I was able to get them to upgrade me from a BPON ONT to a GPON ONT and get me the new service installed:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/vz_150/DSC_8293.JPG

I still recommend against anyone doing serious web-hosting off this but if its for their own personal stuff and for cheap colo for friends it really is an incredible bargain for what you get.

[ZKuJoe]

It would be a lot cheaper to just get a 42U cabinet with a 100Mbps link (up and down).

[CN-Jeremy]

Very nice... I wish they would bring FIOS here..

[houkouonchi]

Originally Posted by ZKuJoe

It would be a lot cheaper to just get a 42U cabinet with a 100Mbps link (up and down).

Really? Please show me where I can get a 4U single server colo with a 50mbit+ commit for under $250/month in Los Angeles.

[CGotzmann]

Wish Verizon FIOS was in Woodland Hills, would get it immediately

[IRCCo Jeff]

My FiOS was like that, until other people in the neighborhood started buying it, then it was more like cable than anything.

[IRCCo Jeff]

Originally Posted by houkouonchi

Really? Please show me where I can get a 4U single server colo with a 50mbit+ commit for under $250/month in Los Angeles.

I'd hook that up for you if I was allowed to oversubscribe and rate limit your bandwidth (see my last post).

[houkouonchi]

Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff

My FiOS was like that, until other people in the neighborhood started buying it, then it was more like cable than anything.

Your fios was not as low latency as mine unless it was GPON. If it was GPON and you were having congestion/speed issues I can almost guarantee you whatever the issue was it wasn't congestion. Currently they split 2.4g/1.2g on gpon over a maximum of 32 users (will be 64 in the future). Almost impossible for there to be congestion.

It is possible on BPON (especially upstream) but still very unlikely as its 622 megabits down split up between 32 users (only 155 up). The thing is though; even with BPON we are talking about an over-subscription rate that is probably about 10x better than most cable systems are so congestion seems pretty unlikely.

With cable you have maybe 2-6 38 mbit channels (35mbit after overhead) and that is split between hundreds of users. Compare that to even 622/155 split between only a maximum of 32 users.\


Also I really don't know of any colo providers that don't over-subscribe. There is usually never enough capacity on the distribution switch or even the edge switch's uplink ports for all connected ports to run at 100% capacity.

I guess if you are plugging customers directly in the core and make sure you have enough bandwidth for all customers running @ 100% capacity then that could be true but considering for the amount of traffic all servers at the DC can produce and how much they actually produce is probably under 10% good luck getting that low of commits on all your transit.

[[CTI] Todd]

Originally Posted by houkouonchi

Really? Please show me where I can get a 4U single server colo with a 50mbit+ commit for under $250/month in Los Angeles.

Your FIOS speed is not a bandwidth commit, its the port speed. If you starting gobbling up inordinate amounts of bandwidth, they will notice.

[houkouonchi]

Originally Posted by [CTI] Todd

Your FIOS speed is not a bandwidth commit, its the port speed. If you starting gobbling up inordinate amounts of bandwidth, they will notice.

I used to have two 35/35 circuits and used over 10TB/month for around a year. I used up to 20TB/month at one point.

You say they notice yet I have never heard of anyone ever being contacted by VZ for usage and wouldn't expect it on their business service (which I am on) although I could maybe see it for residential (one of my connections was residential).

[Spudstr]

Originally Posted by houkouonchi

I used to have two 35/35 circuits and used over 10TB/month for around a year. I used up to 20TB/month at one point.

You say they notice yet I have never heard of anyone ever being contacted by VZ for usage and wouldn't expect it on their business service (which I am on) although I could maybe see it for residential (one of my connections was residential).

You are violating your Verizon AUP section 4.3

http://www.verizon.net/policies/vzcom/tos_popup.asp

1. Restrictions on Use. The Service is a consumer grade service and is not designed for or intended to be used for any commercial purpose. You may not resell, re-provision or rent the Service, (either for a fee or without charge) or allow third parties to use the Service via wired, wireless or other means. For example, you may not provide Internet access to third parties through a wired or wireless connection or use the Service to facilitate public Internet access (such as through a Wi-Fi hotspot), use it for high volume purposes, or engage in similar activities that constitute such use (commercial or non-commercial). If you subscribe to a Broadband Service, you may connect multiple computers/devices within a single home to your modem and/or router to access the Service, but only through a single Verizon-issued IP address. You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server. Violation of this section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your Service or suspension or termination of your Service.
   

In short I wouldn't be hosting any customers servers or anything out of your home/fios connection. You might get away with it for now but you will get cought over time and they will disconnect you.

People who do this sort of stunts give everyone in the industry a bad name.

Hell we were criticized the other week for delving a 10M fiber connection to someones office and one of the questions, "this isn't just you jacking up the rate and installing Verizon fios is it?" *sigh* because yes some competitors would pull that move.

[layer0]

With all due respect to everyone that is talking about congestion issues, Verizon noticing huge bandwidth usage, etc. I can say that as a FiOS user for a few years having pushed serious bandwidth through my line, I have not once seen an issue with reaching the provided speeds. In fact, I typically get 5-10mbps MORE than what is advertised.

Spudstr - on a business plan (which I believe the OP has) with static IPs, Verizon is perfectly fine with you hosting public web servers, etc.

FiOS is really an excellent service, it is nothing like any other competing service available to the home. My FiOS line has had better uptime than networks in many data center facilities.

Disclaimer - I am not doing any serious hosting using FiOS, I don't necessarily suggest that people do.

[nonprofit-worker]

I have a semi subterranean part of my house that is always cold. The concrete walls have dirt going up about 4 feet and still has windows. My FIOS ONT was installed inside this room and was literally placed 1 foot from my 3 phase meter and breaker box. As this room is also always cold I couldn't help but consider putting some customer inside this room. It was the perfect storm situation naturally. No load was on the 3 phase power as we only used the single phase power meter (we have 2 meters) As well as a large solar panel array on the roof. (but connected to single phase)

In either case a month after I considered using FIOS for such it went down. I called and they said "we have to come fix it around some time tomorrow" and I thought "you're not coming to fix it RIGHT NOW?" I think they were thinking they were responding fast and I was really thinking "ive never seen such slow service" so.. I was without internet for a whole day basically. That's when I realized I would be in bad shape if a client were using this.

You don't "need speed" to provide data center like service at your house. Just redundant internet and power. BGP between ISP's and a redundant POE for the communications line and that just was not possible or worth doing in a house and would be cheaper at a commercial property. I also wouldn't want clients visiting my house.

However, W2servers and FDCservers customers might actually experience increased uptime by switching to FIOS.

[KarlZimmer]

Originally Posted by nonprofit-worker

I have a semi subterranean part of my house that is always cold. The concrete walls have dirt going up about 4 feet and still has windows. My FIOS ONT was installed inside this room and was literally placed 1 foot from my 3 phase meter and breaker box. As this room is also always cold I couldn't help but consider putting some customer inside this room. It was the perfect storm situation naturally. No load was on the 3 phase power as we only used the single phase power meter (we have 2 meters) As well as a large solar panel array on the roof. (but connected to single phase)

In either case a month after I considered using FIOS for such it went down. I called and they said "we have to come fix it around some time tomorrow" and I thought "you're not coming to fix it RIGHT NOW?" I think they were thinking they were responding fast and I was really thinking "ive never seen such slow service" so.. I was without internet for a whole day basically. That's when I realized I would be in bad shape if a client were using this.

You don't "need speed" to provide data center like service at your house. Just redundant internet and power. BGP between ISP's and a redundant POE for the communications line and that just was not possible or worth doing in a house and would be cheaper at a commercial property. I also wouldn't want clients visiting my house.

However, W2servers and FDCservers customers might actually experience increased uptime by switching to FIOS.

You hit it on the head. From what I can tell, even FIOS business does not come with an SLA, at least any meaningful SLA. Yes, it may work perfectly fine for a year or two, but when you have an issue you WILL be down for a good period of time. The key to a data center is redundancy, including carrier redundancy. So yes, it will work great for personal use most of the time and I'd see no issue using it for that, or say as a non-critical backup site, but I simply could not see putting any sort of even near critical service on it.

I will note though, that I prefer the 90/90 I get from SilverIP for only $29.95/month. If you're in the Chicago area and live in an MDU, have your condo association or apartment management contact them ASAP, by far the best residential Internet I've ever had.

[layer0]

Karl, I agree. I wouldn't use my FiOS line for anything more than personal/non-critical hosting. But it is a much better service than people make it out to be. In practice, its reliability is superb in most cases, even though there isn't a formal SLA.