Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Domain Names : ResellerClub - Who owns registered domains?

[slava739]

I just read RESELLER MASTER AGREEMENT and asked myself a question: who owns registered domains? I cannot find a word about this in this 25 pages document.

http://manage.directi.com/servlet/Vi...asteragreement

As I understand, domain = Order. Than it says only that if the order is expired, rights go to Parent.
1) Should renewal fees go unpaid for an Order, the Order will expire. (4) Reseller acknowledges that after expiration of the term of an Order, Reseller has no rights on such Order, or any information associated with such Order, and that ownership of such Order now passes on to Parent.

[SiberForum]

Once you have paid for the domain name you will become the owner of it.
The ownership can be for 1, 2 .... 10 years. If you forget to renew your domain name you will lose that.

[slava739]

In general this is also my understanding In particular:

1) Where is it written in the legal documents?
2) In case of Reseller cheme there is no single "YOU". Customer pays Reseller, Reseller pays ResellerClub. So who owns the domain?

[Website themes]

Well I think the real owners are verisign or affilias or whatever company runs the registry. We domain registrants simply rent names and like all tenants we can be kicked out at any time for the flimsiest of reasons.

[HundredProof]

When you buy a domain, you are simply renting it out for a period of max 10 years. During this period, whatever information is mentioned in the domain's registrant details is the one that owns the domain.

[slava739]

Thanks, this is now more specific! So:

1) Does that mean I can rent a domain for longer than 10 years in case I keep renewing the rent?
2) Do I have a priority right for renew as a current renter before a domain expired? This is not stated in ResellerClub's RESELLER MASTER AGREEMENT and I believe this is very important point.

[NotanAngel]

Originally Posted by slava739

Thanks, this is now more specific! So:

1) Does that mean I can rent a domain for longer than 10 years in case I keep renewing the rent?
2) Do I have a priority right for renew as a current renter before a domain expired? This is not stated in ResellerClub's RESELLER MASTER AGREEMENT and I believe this is very important point.

1) you can rent for longer, but maximum number of years a domain can be registered for is 10. you can renew it every year to keep it 10
2) yes, you have a priority.

[ninak]

Maybe this will help.


Scene 1:
John smith buys his domain xyz.com through registrar (enom, godaddy, netearth, resellerclub, namecheap, or any that are out there). Pays for this domain for 1 or up to 10 years. This domain is his no matter what for the amount of time that he paid for it. He should receive access information for this account at the registrar level.

Scene 2:
John Smith buys his domain through a company that is a reseller for the registrar.
The same applies as above, he owns it for the period of time that he payed for.
Should also receive access to account at registrar.

Scene 3:
John Smith buys a hosting package that has a free domain attached to it.
This is usually done on an annual base so the domain name is his for the year that he paid and he should be given access to both the registrar and his hosting panel. Now in case he decides to cancel his account before the year is up then the hosting company can either charge him a prorated amount for the balance on the year for registration and leave the domain registered to him or if he does not want to do that the hosting company can transfer the registration to their name and they would be the owner.

Scene 4:
John Smith purchases hosting on a monthly, quarterly, semi-annual, or annual base but also pays for separate domain registration. Again he should receive access to the domain account at the registrar. The domain is his even if he cancels his hosting.

[Website themes]

Originally Posted by slava739

Thanks, this is now more specific! So:

1) Does that mean I can rent a domain for longer than 10 years in case I keep renewing the rent?
2) Do I have a priority right for renew as a current renter before a domain expired? This is not stated in ResellerClub's RESELLER MASTER AGREEMENT and I believe this is very important point.

1) Yep you can rent it as long as you comply with the registration agreement. Some of the things that you can't do with your domain name are:

Send spam

Support violence or "terrorism". No provision for free speech.

Rub the US govt. the wrong way. A guy lost his domain name because he was promoting tourism in Cuba.


2) I haven't read that agreement and I doubt I ever will. But practically you do get first right to renew. In fact you get first and second right to renew. If you fail to renew it before it expires you can renew at a higher price during the "redemption period". That's something like 90 days after expiry. Mind you, its not unheard of for domain registrars to not offer this redemption period to customers with extremely valuable domain names. So always renew before the expiry date. And never rely on your registrar to remind you off expiring names. Always keep records yourself.

[slava739]

ninak, thanks a lot of explanation! Because of the described possible complications I never ordered domains and hosting from the same company So let's talk only about domains.

Website themes,

1) Nice example about Cuba! Any other non-obvious cases when people lost domains?

All,

So I now totally understand how it works in practice, thanks!

My only question is now only in legal dimension: where it's written in ResellerClub's RESELLER MASTER AGREEMENT or any other that I have a priority right for renew as a current renter before a domain expired? If that is not written then they can legally steal a valuable domain from me after expiration.

[netearth]

Originally Posted by slava739

My only question is now only in legal dimension: where it's written in ResellerClub's RESELLER MASTER AGREEMENT or any other that I have a priority right for renew as a current renter before a domain expired? If that is not written then they can legally steal a valuable domain from me after expiration.

On the basis you are asking a specific question (a few times) - regarding the DI/RC contract, I suggest you ask them directly.

The word "Steal" is a little OTT.

Essentially once a domain expires it is up to the "REGISTRANT not the reseller to request renewal of the domain" / "Reseller if SPECIFICALLY requested by the" registrant to renew the domain.

Otherwise the same "OTT" comment could be used if the reseller waited say until the 44th day of expiry and renewed the domain, changed ownership to your own name and thus gaining the renewed domain name.

You must also remember DI/RC operate drop catching services, thus it is in their interest if a domain falls into redemption and then deletion.

Just remember, if your customer wants the domain, they should renew it, it is really as simple as that.

[slava739]

Thank for your comment!

Originally Posted by netearth

On the basis you are asking a specific question (a few times) - regarding the DI/RC contract, I suggest you ask them directly.

Did that already. They are still silent, and I understand why: only lawers can asnwer it. That's why trying to ask it here - may be somebody already researched it.

Originally Posted by netearth

The word "Steal" is a little OTT.

When the question is about big money, anything happens in our world.

Originally Posted by netearth

Essentially once a domain expires it is up to the "REGISTRANT not the reseller to request renewal of the domain" / "Reseller if SPECIFICALLY requested by the" registrant to renew the domain.

Where does this quote come from? I cannot find it in RC T&C.

Originally Posted by netearth

Just remember, if your customer wants the domain, they should renew it, it is really as simple as that.

Again, see my comment about big money. In such situations words like should don't work.

[netearth]

Originally Posted by slava739

Thank for your comment!

Did that already. They are still silent, and I understand why: only lawers can asnwer it. That's why trying to ask it here - may be somebody already researched it.

When the question is about big money, anything happens in our world.

That has no relevance to your comment regarding stealing / theft.

Where does this quote come from? I cannot find it in RC T&C.

It doesn't have to be in the RC / DI terms and conditions, as they also include within the whole legal agreement between the registrant and the registrar also includes ICANNs RAA : http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/r...21may09-en.htm

Again, see my comment about big money. In such situations words like should don't work.

If a domain is worth "big money" and the registrant has decided to not take any notice of the 3 or 4 different renewal emails sent out to them, then surely that is their own silly fault.

I remember halfords in the UK, forgetting to renew their domain, trust me - you only do it once...

[Team ResellerClub]

The registrant is the owner of the domain name.
The Reseller Master Agreement focuses on the do's and don'ts for resellers and obligations of the registrar.
Pls. go through the agreements listed below for specifics. (These are accessible from your control panel also )

Domain Registrant Agreement -
http://manage.directi.com/servlet/Vi...straragreement

Reseller Agreement for Domain Names -
http://manage.directi.com/servlet/Vi...omainagreement

[slava739]

Originally Posted by netearth

It doesn't have to be in the RC / DI terms and conditions, as they also include within the whole legal agreement between the registrant and the registrar also includes ICANNs RAA : http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/r...21may09-en.htm

You may be right and the answer to my question is in the other agreements.

Originally Posted by Team ResellerClub

The registrant is the owner of the domain name.

Based on the discussion above the conclusion is that this is not correct from legal point of view. Registrant only rents the domain.

Originally Posted by Team ResellerClub

The Reseller Master Agreement focuses on the do's and don'ts for resellers and obligations of the registrar.
Pls. go through the agreements listed below for specifics. (These are accessible from your control panel also )

Domain Registrant Agreement -
http://manage.directi.com/servlet/Vi...straragreement

Reseller Agreement for Domain Names -
http://manage.directi.com/servlet/Vi...omainagreement

Thanks for the links! I read them all several days before and they didn't answer my question. That is why I posted it here.