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  1. #1
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    Refused to give ESTIMATED length of downtime

    Why many provider is unable (or avoiding) to answer the question of ESTIMATED DOWNTIME? If there's unexpected downtime and you ask your provider most of them will answer "we do not know how long will it take" or "we will update you as soon as possible". Honestly, these answers are canned and will only showcase your incompetency and being inexperience in the industry.

    I do not believe that you cannot answer this question straight as it is obvious...ESTIMATED DOWNTIME. If you are experienced and you are the one troubleshooting the issue then I'm pretty sure that you can answer this question.

    If you are reseller or collocating server then this still apply to your upstream.
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  2. #2
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    Sometimes it can simply be not estimated due to certain factors, Say if a core router breaks and you need to get a replacement shipped out Or you need an engineer to attend because your having power problems.

    Sometimes certain things are not in the hands of the providers but rather their providers who provide them with a service, I.E Local engineers, Power Grids, Hardware Vendors, the list is endless...
    Last edited by Server Management; 06-12-2011 at 08:30 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    Sometimes it can simply be not estimated due to certain factors, Say if a core router breaks and you need to get a replacement shipped out Or you need an engineer to attend because your having power problems.
    If hardware has to be purchase and ship out, I believe that fedex/ups can provide an ETA. Same with the engineer who needs to fix the generator.
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  4. #4
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    Sometimes they honestly are just relaying the message from the datacenter. If they do not colocate and just have a few servers from various datacenters and if a part needs to be replaced and the datacenter takes it offline, there is no telling when it'll be completed as the datacenter hasn't told them.

    Plus, they don't want to say 5 hours and it happens to take 6 and then their clients are angry with them because they told them 5 but it took 6. When it isn't even their fault that it has taken longer than expected because they are not doing the fixing!
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    If hardware has to be purchase and ship out, I believe that fedex/ups can provide an ETA. Same with the engineer who needs to fix the generator.
    Ive had engineers turn up 2 hours late because their was a car crash on the M25, Ive had delivery companys unable to bring my stuff due to snow... All these factors need to be taken into consideration...

    Afew months back when the UK had the massive snow fall, alot of UK companys and international companys was effected by it one of them being UK2...
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  6. #6
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    I THINK, the very obvious reason WHY most of these provider refused to answer this question is for them NOT to have cancellation, as THEY are aware that their client will soon find an alternative solution to immediately restore their service; especially if they need very long hours to fix the issue.
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  7. #7
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    I know one thing, clients hate when you are wrong about an ETA. If you tell them it'll be fixed in one hour, and it takes two, you'll never hear the end of it. In some cases it's better to not give an ETA unless you are 100% sure of what's wrong and how long it took you to fix it last time. Honestly, all they need to know is that the problem is actively being worked on, everyone who is capable is helping and that it'll be fixed when it's fixed.

    Edit:

    ... and if they demand an ETA, just be vague about it. "It'll be fixed within the hour" ... "It'll be fixed in two hours, maybe more?" ... it's better to do that than give an exact ETA, get everyone's hopes up, then piss them off when you're wrong.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    I THINK, the very obvious reason WHY most of these provider refused to answer this question is for them NOT to have cancellation, as THEY are aware that their client will soon find an alternative solution to immediately restore their service; especially if they need very long hours to fix the issue.
    Its not always as easy as packing your bags and moving host at the first sign of downtime because their is something called domain propagation.

    Betime your domain has propaged correctly through-out the whole internet, etc The server at your previous host would probley be back up and running.

    Then your new host will have some downtime then you move again, The cycle normally ends when you realise you dont have any decent providers left to choose from and you realise that downtime happens at every host in this industry...
    Last edited by Server Management; 06-12-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    Its not always as easy as packing your bags and moving host at the first sign of downtime because their is something called domain propagation.

    Betime your domain has propaged correct through-out the whole internet, etc The server at your previous host would probley be back up and running.

    Then your new host will have some downtime then you move again, The cycle normally ends when you realise you dont have any decent providers left to choose from and you realise that downtime happens at every host in this industry...
    Propagation is no longer an issue now my friend. The 24-48 hours is already a myth. Nobody denies the downtime BUT nobody also denies the advance hosting technology compared the past years. If mission critical server exist then why not to be somehow near on this technology.
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  10. #10
    I think the most important thing is to be honest about what is wrong. Giving an estimated time to resolve an issue is rarely a good option as things can and do come up. For example, if a host plans to upgrade ram or hd's on a server and then reboots it but it doesn't come back up. Well, everyone expected 1 hour for downtime but now you have to find an issue. Hosts should at least tell their customers what happened and what they are doing to fix it. Anyone that has a computer knows things happen, even with servers. It doesn't mean a host is incompetent. It simply means that something they have no control over failed and they will get it fixed. I do find it bad practice to not tell customers the truth or avoid them all together.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    Propagation is no longer an issue now my friend. The 24-48 hours is already a myth.
    What makes you say that?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    What makes you say that?
    The only problem now with propagation is the LOCAL ISP caching and most of the local ISP has 1 to 12 hours refresh period. Proxy site are also there to prove your client the website is already back online and up and running after the migrating. Only these people care is for them to see that their website and email is up and running. Done this a lot of times.
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  13. #13
    First, unless the service provider is 100% confident about their system they could not tell out the exact answer. Second, they would not like to tell you even they know it because they like to get more business.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by killigan View Post
    I think the most important thing is to be honest about what is wrong. Giving an estimated time to resolve an issue is rarely a good option as things can and do come up. For example, if a host plans to upgrade ram or hd's on a server and then reboots it but it doesn't come back up. Well, everyone expected 1 hour for downtime but now you have to find an issue. Hosts should at least tell their customers what happened and what they are doing to fix it. Anyone that has a computer knows things happen, even with servers. It doesn't mean a host is incompetent. It simply means that something they have no control over failed and they will get it fixed. I do find it bad practice to not tell customers the truth or avoid them all together.
    Part of being competent is assuring your client that YOU ARE INDEED working on the issue (not playing Nintendo) and giving ESTIMATED DOWNTIME is one the assurance as they know that you are trying to meet that deadline. Now, it is also true that sh*ts happen and your proper communication and detailed update will make them aware that you are fixing the issue and again committing an ESTIMATED downtime.

    It is ESTIMATED not ABSOLUTE, so I'm really wondering why this is very difficult to give. If DC has a problem then they SHOULD also give an ESTIMATED downtime.
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  15. #15
    Most issues are extremely technical and could take hours to fix. You could give an estimate but what if you don't meet that deadline? Would you still be happy with that estimate? No. Would you rather have someone hurry and do a bad job or get it done correctly?
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  16. #16
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    Hi Guys, we're performing some maintenance at present to mitigate the ddos attack that we are experiencing. The network engineers are trying to capture traffic and apply rules to minimise the issue. The senior network engineer advises that we should check back in around 30 minutes, allowing them time to do the analysis and start thinking about applying rules. I'm off to play my xbox 360 again for 30 minutes and will ask the guys for an update at that time and relay back to you.

    Is me playing xbox360 for 30 minutes a problem here?
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  17. #17
    "We expect downtime to last about 24 hours. If it goes further, we will keep you informed."

    Is that enough?
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  18. #18
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    Is this just a rant in general or do you have a specific issue/concern that you're upset with?
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  19. #19
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    Murphy's Law! when there is an update that you think it was just a restart of 5 minutes it can take hours due to this law.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Is this just a rant in general or do you have a specific issue/concern that you're upset with?
    This is a thread
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    This is a thread
    I understand but what I'm asking is whether there is a particular real-world issue you're facing that inspired you to create this thread or if you're just wanting to discuss in general.
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  22. #22
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    I'll usually "estimate" one day and then the customer gets excited when its only 5 minutes.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff View Post
    I'll usually "estimate" one day and then the customer gets excited when its only 5 minutes.
    Exactly! This is correct example. It's "estimate" not absolute.
    Hay....I don't understand why some cannot understand.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    Why many provider is unable (or avoiding) to answer the question of ESTIMATED DOWNTIME? If there's unexpected downtime and you ask your provider most of them will answer "we do not know how long will it take" or "we will update you as soon as possible". Honestly, these answers are canned and will only showcase your incompetency and being inexperience in the industry.

    I do not believe that you cannot answer this question straight as it is obvious...ESTIMATED DOWNTIME. If you are experienced and you are the one troubleshooting the issue then I'm pretty sure that you can answer this question.

    If you are reseller or collocating server then this still apply to your upstream.
    If the downtime is part of a planned maintenance, then the duration is usually pretty easy to estimate. However, if the downtime is caused by an unplanned emergency, the duration is typically not something that can be easily estimated. A host can offer you a wide range for an ETA, but it will largely be a guess since each downtime that comes up will be unique. Realistically speaking, there are plenty of times when a host cannot give you an exact ETA, and that applies to experienced and competent hosts as well.

    To get an idea what I mean by this, try estimating how long it will take to fix something that you are responsible for (write down your estimate before you start fixing it) and then time yourself with a stop watch to see how close you got to your own time estimate. It could be a problem with a computer, a car, a home appliance. Just try giving yourself an ETA and then see how close you can get to your own ETA. You will quickly see how hard it is to predict the future.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    Why many provider is unable (or avoiding) to answer the question of ESTIMATED DOWNTIME? If there's unexpected downtime and you ask your provider most of them will answer "we do not know how long will it take" or "we will update you as soon as possible". Honestly, these answers are canned and will only showcase your incompetency and being inexperience in the industry.

    I do not believe that you cannot answer this question straight as it is obvious...ESTIMATED DOWNTIME. If you are experienced and you are the one troubleshooting the issue then I'm pretty sure that you can answer this question.

    If you are reseller or collocating server then this still apply to your upstream.
    To be honest, this is really a hard question. I did meet a case that after couple minutes investigator, I receive an answer that they need 3-4 hours to restore the data from backup.... Too many uncertainty there.
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