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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    North Kansas City, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    Joe's DC?
    No.

    Why?
    Contract's up. It was started as an idea that didn't really pan out the way KCIX wanted it to and they decided to focus on thier core which is settlement free peering.
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
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    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    Our providers haven't changed

    We've never peered directly with Cogent. Always gone through KCIX's transit network which is 100% Cogent.
    Last month you were leaking WII prefixes out via KCIX AS40542 -- you're not anymore. Cogent only has paths for the majority of your prefixes through HE.net. It's disingenuous to list Cogent as one of your networks of connectivity if you've structured your route advertisements such that it could never be used without manual intervention by a network engineer.

    The only prefixes leaked out to Cogent via KCIX sourced from AS32097 are the Virpus netblocks plus a couple more.
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."

  3. #28
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    Apr 2009
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    USA / UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    Just us and one other company use the transit network which will be closed down for good early next year.
    Any hint as to who you will be replacing Cogent with once that happens?

    Quote Originally Posted by spaethco
    Last month you were leaking WII prefixes out via KCIX AS40542 -- you're not anymore. Cogent only has paths for the majority of your prefixes through HE.net. It's disingenuous to list Cogent as one of your networks of connectivity if you've structured your route advertisements such that it could never be used without manual intervention by a network engineer.

    The only prefixes leaked out to Cogent via KCIX sourced from AS32097 are the Virpus netblocks plus a couple more.
    I have to admit I haven't seen a route go in over Cogent in a long time, and tracing from Cogent goes over HE:

    Code:
    1 gi1-47.99.mpd01.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.250.81) 0.476 ms 0.331 ms
    2 te7-1.ccr02.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.7.250) 45.979 ms te8-1.ccr02.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.7.254) 160.200 ms
    3 te7-1.ccr02.dfw03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.25.6) 0.736 ms te8-1.ccr02.dfw03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.25.10) 0.471 ms
    4 globalcrossing.dfw03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.14.18) 0.675 ms 0.475 ms
    5 HURRICANE-ELECTRIC-LLC.GigabitEthernet3-23.ar2.CHI2.gblx.net (64.208.205.42) 24.102 ms 24.121 ms
    6 10gigabitethernet1-1.core1.mci1.he.net (72.52.92.2) 34.466 ms 34.547 ms
    7 10gigabitethernet1-1.core1.mci2.he.net (184.105.213.2) 34.289 ms 34.536 ms
    8 wholesale-internet-inc.10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.mci2.he.net (216.66.79.10) 34.934 ms 34.923 ms
    9 69.30.209.3 (69.30.209.3) 35.213 ms 35.679 ms
    10 * *
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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
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    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    Also on their dedicated servers page they have listed their Six Core dedicated machine as "Phenom II
    Sex Core" I don't know if that is a typo or a marketing choice but that seems unprofessional to me.
    Fill in the blank:

    Single - 1
    Double - 2
    Triple - 3
    Quadruple - 4
    Quintuple - 5
    _________ - 6
    Septuple - 7
    Octuple - 8
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,884
    Thanks for the initial review. Really glad to hear that you are very satisfied with their service.
    I hope that further follow ups will be there after a couple of months.

  6. #31
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    Apr 2002
    Location
    North Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    2,694
    Quote Originally Posted by spaethco View Post
    It's disingenuous to list Cogent as one of your networks of connectivity if you've structured your route advertisements such that it could never be used without manual intervention by a network engineer.
    I would disagree with that statement since we still use 90% of our Cogent line's capacity for outbound traffic.
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    North Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    2,694
    Quote Originally Posted by ramnet View Post
    Any hint as to who you will be replacing Cogent with once that happens?
    We may go with Cogent direct - or not. One of the issues with them is that they only have 2Gbits running into our building. One of those is dedicated to us and the other is shared between everyone else.

    We moved most of our incoming traffic off Cogent and onto Hurricane since we have a much bigger pipe with them. This helps us mitigate attacks plus it solves some latency and routing issues Cogent's been having in KC lately.

    Cogent has agreed to run us a 10Gbit circuit but they want to wait untill KCIX's contract is up.

    In addition you have the Google question. Before we sign with Cogent we'd like to see what Google's going to do in KC. If they truely decide to open up thier fiber it'll allow quite a few new bandwidth choices for us. Also, we have a customer that, while they don't sell bandwidth in the US (only in Europe) they would sell to us. That's an attractive option for us as well.

    and.... That could all change if our current negotiations with the city go well and we're able to consrtuct the new 110,000 sq ft facility we've been working on for the last year....


    to many things in flux right now to give to a good answer.
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  8. #33
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    I would disagree with that statement since we still use 90% of our Cogent line's capacity for outbound traffic.
    I don't see how, except if it is for specific customers and their associated netblocks. (Virpus would be my guess)

    Outbound routing to Cogent-sourced prefixes is taking a path of HE.net -> Telia -> Cogent.

    Code:
     2  69.30.209.124 (69.30.209.124)  0.588 ms  0.869 ms  1.105 ms
     3  10gigabitethernet1-2.core1.mci2.he.net (216.66.79.9)  1.260 ms  1.314 ms  1.393 ms
     4  10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.mci1.he.net (184.105.213.1)  1.563 ms  1.631 ms  1.701 ms
     5  10gigabitethernet6-1.core1.chi1.he.net (72.52.92.1)  15.937 ms  16.208 ms  16.286 ms
     6  chi-bb1-link.telia.net (213.248.104.213)  11.823 ms  11.451 ms  11.262 ms
     7  te0-3-0-0.ccr21.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.33)  55.902 ms  55.840 ms  55.901 ms
     8  te0-4-0-1.mpd22.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.25.69)  55.515 ms  55.442 ms  55.599 ms
     9  te0-1-0-1.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.40.237)  55.718 ms  55.828 ms  55.912 ms
    10  cogentco.com (38.100.128.10)  55.935 ms  55.474 ms  55.456 ms
    Most Cogent connected customers are going to have an AS PATH length at least one hop longer. Based on the observed behavior, I don't see how any egress paths through Cogent could ever win for standard customer routing.

    I don't want to keep harping on this, but what you're saying doesn't line up with any observable behavior or routing table data.
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."

  9. #34
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    Apr 2002
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    North Kansas City, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaethco View Post
    I don't want to keep harping on this, but what you're saying doesn't line up with any observable behavior or routing table data.
    You can't discern the way anyone pushes traffic without intimate knowledge of thier network. Here's a quick trace from my desk:

    Tracing route to cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.100
    2 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 208.110.69.177
    3 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 69.30.209.126
    4 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 206.51.7.129
    5 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms gi0-2.na01.b006290-1.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [3
    8.100.176.225]
    6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms gi1-45.3510.mpd01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [38.1
    12.32.69]
    7 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms te0-3-0-2.mpd22.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .30.165]
    8 58 ms 54 ms 53 ms te0-2-0-3.mpd22.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .6.254]
    9 58 ms 57 ms 54 ms te0-0-0-1.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .40.233]
    10 39 ms * 39 ms te4-2.mpd01.iad03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29.
    122]
    11 54 ms 54 ms 56 ms cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]

    Trace complete.

    C:\Users\Aaron>
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    California USA
    Posts
    13,681
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    You can't discern the way anyone pushes traffic without intimate knowledge of thier network. Here's a quick trace from my desk:

    Tracing route to cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.100
    2 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 208.110.69.177
    3 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 69.30.209.126
    4 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 206.51.7.129
    5 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms gi0-2.na01.b006290-1.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [3
    8.100.176.225]
    6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms gi1-45.3510.mpd01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [38.1
    12.32.69]
    7 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms te0-3-0-2.mpd22.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .30.165]
    8 58 ms 54 ms 53 ms te0-2-0-3.mpd22.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .6.254]
    9 58 ms 57 ms 54 ms te0-0-0-1.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .40.233]
    10 39 ms * 39 ms te4-2.mpd01.iad03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29.
    122]
    11 54 ms 54 ms 56 ms cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]

    Trace complete.

    C:\Users\Aaron>
    That is not a valid example since you can purposely make that occur. What would be a more valid test would be, if customers actually saw that expected behavior, which no one has seen yet. I have several customers with your datacenter, I haven't been able to reach a route that did not leave or enter your DC using HE.net.

    Either cogent was purposely cut off for most customers (probably due to a capacity issue since you only have 1gbit), or there is a misconfiguration on your network.
    Last edited by Steven; 06-10-2011 at 03:40 PM.
    Steven Ciaburri | Industry's Best Server Management - Rack911.com
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  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,172
    My server from Datashack travels from HE to Cogent as Steven mentioned.

    Tracing route to cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms ***.***.***.***
    2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ***.***.***.***
    3 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10gigabitethernet1-2.core1.mci2.he.net [216.66.79.9]
    4 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.mci1.he.net [184.105.213.1]
    5 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms 10gigabitethernet6-1.core1.chi1.he.net [72.52.92.1]
    6 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms chi-bb1-link.telia.net [213.248.104.213]
    7 37 ms 38 ms 37 ms te0-3-0-0.ccr21.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12.33]
    8 37 ms 38 ms 37 ms te0-3-0-0.mpd22.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.5.9]
    9 37 ms 37 ms 37 ms te0-0-0-1.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.40.233]
    10 37 ms * * te4-2.mpd01.iad03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29.122]
    11 37 ms 38 ms 37 ms cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]

    Trace complete.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    462
    Xenos,

    Odd, we have a system over there (one Aaron doesn't know about :-P) but our trace seems to take KCIX then Cogent as expected for tracing to "cogentco.com"

    2 69.30.209.126 (69.30.209.126) 23.973 ms 23.530 ms 23.465 ms <- Wholesale Internet IP
    3 206.51.7.129 (206.51.7.129) 23.650 ms 23.768 ms 23.432 ms <- KCIX
    4 gi0-2.na01.b006290-1.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com (38.100.176.225) 24.216 ms 27.272 ms 27.494 ms <- Cogent

    I am not sure why ping time is so high for the second hop since it should still be inside wholesale, but it still shows a trace going through KCIX and then to Cogent as expected....

    Strange.

    Adam
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  13. #38
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
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    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    You can't discern the way anyone pushes traffic without intimate knowledge of thier network.
    This is a true statement, but I still have a statistically significant number of data points both privately and through this thread to make a pretty reasonable guess as to how routing is setup for egress.

    Seeing as you're still advertising prefixes of a couple colo customers to Cogent via KCIX, I have no problem with the statement that you're using it for outbound for some netblocks as well.

    The specific charge I'm making is that it's disingenuous to present your network as multi-homed (presumably to give your customers the impression that redundancy exists) when the loss of the HE.net connection alone pretty much signals "Game Over."

    We've already charted that most hosts are not taking egress paths through Cogent, and by your own statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    we still use 90% of our Cogent line's capacity for outbound traffic.
    So if you lose the 10gig to HE that the majority of your customer's traffic is currently transversing, that Cogent path doesn't have enough capacity to be very useful.
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    629
    This thread kind of went off topic...

    I ordered an i7 from Datashack on Wednesday and received it today. I run OpenVZ nodes and this server is the first time I have *ever* received a server set up the correct way (partitions, services, etc) on the first try from any datacenter.

    With the exception of a small iptables issue, everything is perfect so far. I had to submit a few tickets after the server was provisioned and the average response was probably 10 minutes.

    So far, I'm extremely happy with Datashack. The support and price is really unbeatable at this point. I'll definitely be going to them for future servers if this first day is any glimpse of what's to come.

  15. #40
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    Mar 2003
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    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    462
    =>Admo.net Managed Hosting
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  16. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    444
    Aaron,

    traffic even to cogent really goes thru HE.net:
    traceroute to cogentco.com (38.100.128.10), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
    1 208.110.93.1 (208.110.93.1) 1.250 ms 2.163 ms 3.073 ms
    2 69.30.209.124 (69.30.209.124) 3.671 ms 3.940 ms 4.181 ms
    3 10gigabitethernet1-2.core1.mci2.he.net (216.66.79.9) 4.312 ms 4.376 ms 4.422 ms
    4 10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.mci1.he.net (184.105.213.1) 4.396 ms 4.467 ms 4.526 ms
    5 10gigabitethernet6-1.core1.chi1.he.net (72.52.92.1) 14.828 ms 14.912 ms 14.994 ms
    6 chi-bb1-link.telia.net (213.248.104.213) 14.823 ms 10.759 ms 10.772 ms
    7 te0-3-0-0.ccr21.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.33) 37.642 ms 37.505 ms 37.678 ms
    8 te0-2-0-1.mpd22.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.97) 37.728 ms 37.553 ms 37.784 ms
    9 te0-0-0-1.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.40.233) 37.529 ms 37.508 ms 37.747 ms
    10 te4-2.mpd01.iad03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.29.122) 37.900 ms 37.945 ms *
    11 cogentco.com (38.100.128.10) 37.557 ms 37.442 ms 37.426 ms
    Although this server is located in an area where according to Rebecca are servers with 100Mbps Unmetered, for other servers that are not located where the situation is similar.
    Last edited by Ilya74; 06-11-2011 at 01:20 AM.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    41

    contact Datashack

    I'm trying to contact Datashack to make a few questions but i don't see any contact email on their site . Can anyone knows how to contact theme ?

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    444
    bloodram,

    I suppose you should open ticket here - http://billing.datashack.net/submitt...tep=2&deptid=3 or send PM to Brooks (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?u=340992).

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles,CA
    Posts
    88
    I tracert Cogentco.com it cogento only no goes thru HE.net

    C:\Users\administrator>tracert cogentco.com

    Tracing route to cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
    2 22 ms 97 ms 21 ms 10.169.212.178
    3 110 ms 20 ms 31 ms 10.169.212.173
    4 * * * *
    5 * * * *
    6 * * * *
    7 * * * *
    8 * * * *
    9 * * * *
    10 * * * *
    11 * * * *
    12 227 ms 229 ms 227 ms vl203.mpd03.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [38.104.76.
    9]
    13 234 ms 228 ms 229 ms te0-0-0-6.ccr21.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .28.141]
    14 265 ms 263 ms 264 ms te0-0-0-5.ccr21.iah01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .0.222]
    15 289 ms 289 ms 290 ms te0-1-0-6.ccr21.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .29.5]
    16 290 ms 292 ms * te0-0-0-7.ccr21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .28.213]
    17 292 ms 289 ms 292 ms te0-2-0-0.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .26.37]
    18 * 302 ms 346 ms te4-2.mpd01.iad03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29.
    122]
    19 292 ms 290 ms 289 ms cogentco.com [38.100.128.10]

    Trace complete.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Good question
    Posts
    697
    Quote Originally Posted by rajapatr1 View Post
    I tracert Cogentco.com it cogento only no goes thru HE.net
    Uhm, the debate is over WII's network, not your Thai ISP's. :x

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    North Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    109
    I know Wholesale heavily prefers HE routes over Cogent. Since I'm a customer (obviously) and have stood in their network room and seen the connections for myself I can verify that Wholesale has a Cogent connection.

    In fact, Cogent is a customer of Wholesale Internet's so their equipment in in a rack right next to HE's, who is also a customer. Most of the providers servicing Oak Tower colo their equipment with Wholesale.
    Brooks Brown, NOCIX, LLC http://www.nocix.net

  22. #47
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    Mar 2008
    Posts
    52
    oops 401 error on the site.. not so reliable today

  23. #48
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    Nov 2005
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    Minneapolis, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbitch View Post
    oops 401 error on the site.. not so reliable today
    The Billing / Ticket portal is up, as is the network -- so the most important stuff is up.

    Datashack mentioned in another thread they've been working on the main website.
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    What does a 401 web site error have to do with the reliability of their dedicated service?

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DataShack View Post
    In fact, Cogent is a customer of Wholesale Internet's so their equipment in in a rack right next to HE's, who is also a customer. Most of the providers servicing Oak Tower colo their equipment with Wholesale.
    I also believe 1&1 has a rack their?

    I heard they have a handful of well respected big names using their colo...
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