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  1. #1

    Question Move to cloud vs dedicated server

    I have been using dedicated and VPS for over a period of time. I am a n00b when it comes to system admin and get help from professionals as and when required.

    Now, I have an upcoming website, and I plan to do a lot of marketing. The immediate being, doing a email blast to about 4 million email ids in 10 days from some providers.

    How do I prepare for the traffic? Considering, I do not know what kind of response I would get. Also, I do not want to lose on any conversions, due to server unavailability.

    I am currently hosted on a VPS, from which I am moving out either way.

    So should I go to cloud server? I would need a managed service, where I do not have to bother about the scaling, transfer and stuff. Also, I would need SSL certificate, and failover at the minimum.

    What do you suggest?

  2. #2
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    It sounds like Cloud is going to be the perfect fit for your needs. Cloud was built with scalability in mind, both horizontal and vertical so you can increase your level of up-time as well as ease of scalability. If you choose a proper true Cloud host you'll be able to add more resources simply with a reboot of your environment. There's no need for intrusive migration periods or anything excessive.

  3. #3
    I was also of the same opinion. Do you have any suggestions for a managed cloud services?

  4. #4
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    rashmiranjan, I think you'll find CloudWeb's recommended provider in the link in his signature ;-)

    I'm also looking for a managed cloud provider and have found Cloud Web to be one of the few recommended genuine cloud hosts with good feedback and reviews on WHT. My only hesitation is location as personally I was looking for a West Coast data center (due to my location) but otherwise I would have no hesitation and will probably end up going with them myself.

  5. #5
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    Rashmiranjan,

    I believe if you are just developing your application now would be a great time to use cloud. You'll be able to integrate the features of any cloud you use into the development of the site itself and this will benefit you greatly in the future.
    Old School Web Hoster
    138Media LTD (Media and Consulting)

  6. #6
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    You can also get a cloud service and engaging a server management company.
    Jweeb Solutions
    Singapore Web Consulting & Solutions
    Web Consulting - Web Hosting - Web Design & Development and more...
    http://www.jweeb.com.sg - Making the Web Simple!

  7. #7
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    Cloud is the way to go now, saves electricity, scalability, redundancy and maximum efficiency of resources. I think you will love it, don't worry to much about the traffic you can always upgrade on the go, start low and then upgrade when you need to, good luck in your project.
    Offshore Hosting & High Privacy in Panama
    Cloud Servers & Shared Web Hosting | Daily Backups | 99.9% Uptime
    www.OffshoreRacks.com

  8. #8
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    Dunno about the 'saves electricity' bit as my cloud providers have to keep extra nodes on standby just because of provisioning requests. Cloud is the least green of the bunch.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    Dunno about the 'saves electricity' bit as my cloud providers have to keep extra nodes on standby just because of provisioning requests. Cloud is the least green of the bunch.
    I think what people refer to is that you actually use the resources in a Cloud, even with N+1 (or N+2 or whatever they use). So collectively hosting X clients that used to take Y servers now is Z.. Z being less than Y in total. That is pretty normal.

  10. #10
    Interesting but Will cloud hosting give equal response like vps ?

  11. #11
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    Better! Cloud presents an opportunity to a host to be able to move around Cloud Servers between physical servers without migrating. There is no fighting for resources or coping with server failures like VPS. Many times a VPS physical server is oversubscribed resulting in variable performance. This does not happen with a true Cloud host.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shikar View Post
    Interesting but Will cloud hosting give equal response like vps ?
    Depends on which "cloud" you choose - a lot of them are significantly worse than the the equivalent spec'd VPS due to the disk i/o and even more prevalent oversellign.
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  13. #13
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    As said previously... a True Cloud Host does not oversell their stuff and even if they wanted to, their resources would have been allocated elsewhere and they could not reallocate it.

    Till this day, I have yet to hear of any True Cloud Host having problems like what is seen in the VPS industry. Those are totally different concepts and totally different things that we're talking about. Othellotech, have you actually used any True Cloud Hosts out before? Something like for example CloudWeb, Voxel or etc? You should try it before making your statement that a lot of cloud hosts are having worse stuff than the VPS equivalent.
    Aaron Ong
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  14. #14
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    Dare I ask what a True Cloud Host (tm) is?

    Seriously though, cloud tech uses the same virtualization layer as VPS. The only distinguishing feature is that for the most part, the majority of serious cloud providers will have N+K servers and any overflow must hit the extra servers first. But there's no ingrained technical reason why a cloud node couldn't be over-provisioned, especially if we're not tracking individual usage stats, but rather number of sized instances per host. Overflow is really just an arbitrary number - just like VPS providers that close offers because of capacity limitations.

    Frankly, your neighbors count just as much as when you're on the cloud as on a VPS. If someone decides to hit the IO insanely hard, you will get variable performance out of it in either case.

    There's a reason why Netflix when working on AWS actually keeps their own internal performance stats for each instance they start. They then use that data to shutdown/restart the underperforming instances.

    To the OP, unless you're willing to spend more upfront dev costs, go with one of the OnApp or AppLogic based cloud providers. At minimum, they'll give some HA and scalability - enough for you to sleep at night.

    P.S. Another thing to note specifically about your usage case... you're going to have a really tough time getting emails out from a cloud considering IP reputation problems - if you were considering doing the blast from there too.

  15. #15
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    Wow so many cloud hosting 'promoters' in here now.

    Quote Originally Posted by OffshoreRacks View Post
    Cloud is the way to go now, saves electricity, scalability, redundancy and maximum efficiency of resources. I think you will love it, don't worry to much about the traffic you can always upgrade on the go, start low and then upgrade when you need to, good luck in your project.
    I'm not going to comment on your overblown claims.

    His whole point is that he needs to worry about traffic before the campaign goes out; after is simply too late.

    To me this is way more involved then a simple 'oh will it work if we move from x to y' as there are too many variables.

    Is your code optimized? Is your database optimized? Are you using caching? Is your server optimized? Did you run any stress tests?

    Not to mention that your performance will jump up and down from one cloud host to another; this is a game of testing and research.

    Anybody who tells you different is nothing but a sales man.

    Quote Originally Posted by othellotech View Post
    Depends on which "cloud" you choose - a lot of them are significantly worse than the the equivalent spec'd VPS due to the disk i/o and even more prevalent oversellign.
    All My Data » From small shared web hosting accounts to powerful dedicated servers.
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  16. #16
    You must give preference to cloud only for having security, efficiency and for reasonable cost.

  17. #17
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    Cool I have invested about 6 months of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shikar View Post
    Interesting but Will cloud hosting give equal response like vps ?
    I have spent about 6 months of time developing a modest plan to implement Web Hosting in this very crowded field. I figure whatever money I may have spent on buying into web hosing plans is never really the true cost so much as the amount of time one spends, making things work properly.

    I generally am skeptical about things that claim to have turn-key system etc. So here is my question:

    If you really believe that you will be needing about 50-100 GB of storage usage etc, and somewhere in the 600-1,200 GB of usable bandwidth (although this factor alone is so hard to anticipate) and will most like need the Master Reseller plans and at least 5-10 dedicated IP's, what sort of monthly budget number should you plan on?

    When you buy "unlimited" thats just crazy (because the TOS) will no doubt, cover that. Also are there hidden problems with over-seas or out of your county providers? For example if you have many .us domains then there might be a problem if the Web Host provider is based out of the country?

    The Cloud seems ideal and yes the dedicated Hosting Solutions seem very costly. Other than the dedicated IP's (at between $1-$2/mo) whats a reasonable monthly expense for such features:

    Two prices wanted:

    1) With Live Chat (usually higher costs)
    2) No Live Chat (but typical 1/2 hr to 1 to 2 hr turn around on tickets)


    VPS cheapest Cost:

    Average Monthly Cloud or Non Cloud Master Reseller Cost:

    Thanks,


    Experienced but not yet fully proficient!

  18. #18
    What is the question?

    A cloud machine with live chat support?
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  19. #19
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    I really wonder if this forum will ever be useful...

    The question is what a reasonable cost for a low priced economical Master Reseller?

    With 60-100 GB storage
    And 500-1000 GB Bandwidth

    Cloud Price?

    Non Cloud Price?

    VPS Price?

    Not a bargain basement price, whats a reasonable price by the month assuming long term (longer than 6 months staying with company)

  20. #20
    I think the challenge is that 'master reseller' is typically a shared hosting term and open to definition.

    Do you want to sell shared hosting / cpanel type services or VPS / cloud server type services?

    In simple terms, you can buy a good cloud server, running CloudLinux, cpanel/WHM for around $50 a month...
    ____________________________________________
    European and USA IAAS Cloud Hosting
    http://www.dediserve.com Dublin, London, Dallas
    Ranked by Cloudharmony.com as the fastest cloud in the world.

  21. #21
    If you have constant needs for server, without bursts that you need to scale quickly, and you want to run for a longer time, then usually dedicated server is cheaper compared to cloud server with similar resources. And this is quite intuitive - cloud providers needs to have their servers under allocated to be able to handle sudden picks in cloud servers deployed. Someone needs to pay for this underallocation ...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    Dare I ask what a True Cloud Host (tm) is?
    I daresay that a True Cloud Host would have nothing to do with VPS "cloud": Google app engine is a True Cloud Host, where you don't even have the concept of a server, physical or virtual. It all happens in the cloud, and if you need more resources you don't even have to commit them. But I don't know if there are alternatives similar to google's (I didn't search at all, though).

    The problem is that if you want to use the True Cloud you need to create applications specifically for that technology, and this doesn't fit most cases. But if you really want to be able to scale automagically, and to be able to scale to a HUGE size, that would be my prime choice.

  23. #23
    how bout just keep use your server and rent cdn? cloudflare? or instantccda.asia is quite cheap. But I don't know is it better just buy cloud hosting from good company

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmaz74 View Post
    I daresay that a True Cloud Host would have nothing to do with VPS "cloud": Google app engine is a True Cloud Host, where you don't even have the concept of a server, physical or virtual. It all happens in the cloud, and if you need more resources you don't even have to commit them. But I don't know if there are alternatives similar to google's (I didn't search at all, though).

    The problem is that if you want to use the True Cloud you need to create applications specifically for that technology, and this doesn't fit most cases. But if you really want to be able to scale automagically, and to be able to scale to a HUGE size, that would be my prime choice.
    I like where you're going. I think some people have called those App clouds or SaaS clouds. Salesforce, Heroku, Rackspace Cloudsites (not Cloudservers) are other examples. It works well enough if you have a well defined space or are willful enough to limit your customers to certain APIs.

    I know aodat2 wasn't talking about that though.

  25. We are going crazy!!!

    One day we are going to meter the energy that the brain of an administrator has used to solve a ticket...

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