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  1. #1
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    Hurricane Electric

    Is Hurricane Electric bandwidth good quality? Do they have any tier 1 peers? How is their connectivity to Europe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Nelson View Post
    Is Hurricane Electric bandwidth good quality? Do they have any tier 1 peers? How is their connectivity to Europe?
    I know that its "budget bandwidth" and you get what you pay for

    If you want good connectivity to europe I recommend the likes of Level 3

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    Do they have decent connectivity with in the US and Canada?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Nelson View Post
    Do they have decent connectivity with in the US and Canada?
    Who, H.E or Level 3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    Who, H.E or Level 3?
    H.E.

    I know level 3 is quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Nelson View Post
    H.E.

    I know level 3 is quality.

    I might not be 100% correct on this but I think Cogent has better connectivity within US than H.E

    If you want "Budget Bandwidth" with a goodish coverage I think Cogent is the way to go...
    Last edited by Server Management; 06-02-2011 at 07:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    I might not be 100% correct on this but I think Cogent has better connectivity within US than H.E

    If you want "Budget Bandwidth" with a goodish coverage I think Cogent is the way to go...
    If I was forced to choose between the two, I would take Cogent.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
    If I was forced to choose between the two, I would take Cogent.
    Care to drill abit deeper into why you select Cogent

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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    Care to drill abit deeper into why you select Cogent
    I second this.

  10. #10
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    We added HE.net to our network back in February, and have been generally quite happy with the overall network performance, especially when price is factored in. Their NOC is friendly and knowledgeable, and the odds are if you call in you will be talking directly with someone who has router access that can fix any problem you might be experiencing. The HE.net network is extremely well peered, including a number of Tier-1 peers and/or transit connections. If you care about IPv6, nobody is even close to them in terms of number of connected networks.

    We utilize Cogent as well, but only for 'customer' routes since they have a history of getting into disputes with peering partners that can negatively impact network traffic with little or no notice to customers. They do have a lot more POP's than HE.net, but they have virtually no presence in Asia which is important to us, and generally I've seen their pricing to be a bit higher than what I get from HE.net, albeit not by much. I can say we've seen no capacity or over-subscription issues, which were definitely a problem as recently as a few years ago.

    Comparing either of these networks to Level3 is pretty pointless IMO, since there is such a big difference in cost - Level3 will typically cost you 2.5 - 5 times more than either HE.net or Cogent when buying direct.
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  11. #11
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    RyanD,

    If I was forced to choose between the two, I would take Cogent.
    That's an interesting sentiment, considering that it looks like your company is using HE.net for a lot more routes than they use Cogent for -

    http://bgp.he.net/AS46562

    Thoughts?
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  12. #12
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    HE IPv4 is fine.
    HE IPv6 is the BEST you will ever get.

    I would take HE over Cogent at anytime.

    Do they have decent connectivity with in the US and Canada?
    Yes, very.
    Also good routes to Asia (JP, CN, HK and alike).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    RyanD,



    That's an interesting sentiment, considering that it looks like your company is using HE.net for a lot more routes than they use Cogent for -

    http://bgp.he.net/AS46562

    Thoughts?
    I think Ryan was referring too which would be best for the OP and if he was in the OP's shoes he would pick Cogent...

    After all spouting about worldwide connectivity is pointless when the OP is directly asking about connectivity to and from Europe...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Comparing either of these networks to Level3 is pretty pointless IMO, since there is such a big difference in cost - Level3 will typically cost you 2.5 - 5 times more than either HE.net or Cogent when buying direct.
    The OP is looking for solid connectivity to and from Europe plus good connectivity within the US based on this Level 3 would be a fantastic choice to make, If the budget isnt their for it then Cogent would be sufficient for the OP's requirements.
    Last edited by Server Management; 06-02-2011 at 08:07 PM.

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    The OP is looking for solid connectivity to and from Europe plus good connectivity within the US based on this Level 3 would be a fantastic choice to make, If the budget isnt their for it then Cogent would be sufficient for the OP's requirements.
    Agreed - Level3 runs a good network. However, given that the title of the thread is "Hurricane Electric", I made the logical leap that the OP was looking for a more budget-oriented product, hence my comments. If that's not the case, my apologies.

    As far as connectivity in Europe, I recently noticed that HE.net's network map has been updated with a number of pending European POP's that should be established soon (Dublin, Madrid, Milan, Vienna, Prague, and Warsaw), which should make their connectivity in Europe even better than it is now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Agreed - Level3 runs a good network. However, given that the title of the thread is "Hurricane Electric", I made the logical leap that the OP was looking for a more budget-oriented product, hence my comments. If that's not the case, my apologies.

    As far as connectivity in Europe, I recently noticed that HE.net's network map has been updated with a number of pending European POP's that should be established soon (Dublin, Madrid, Milan, Vienna, Prague, and Warsaw), which should make their connectivity in Europe even better than it is now.
    Actually everyones got it wrong. I'm not really looking to guy bandwidth, rather, looking to see what kind of network HE runs because I am considering a provider which uses it as their main bandwidth provider.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Nelson View Post
    Actually everyones got it wrong. I'm not really looking to guy bandwidth
    Its still based upon the same principles though

  18. #18
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    *buy

    (ten characters)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Nelson View Post
    Actually everyones got it wrong. I'm not really looking to guy bandwidth, rather, looking to see what kind of network HE runs because I am considering a provider which uses it as their main bandwidth provider.
    I was going to chime in on my opinion of HE, until I recognized your name after reading this statement.

    For everyone else reading the thread, my main opinion is that their US network is good, and that their European network could use some improvements.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    I was going to chime in on my opinion of HE, until I recognized your name after reading this statement.

    For everyone else reading the thread, my main opinion is that their US network is good, and that their European network could use some improvements.

    Your going to find most networks either have a good US footprint, EU or Asia and there is no "master provider".... hell L3 isn't even considered a real Tier1. They are only a tier1 in the US.

  21. #21
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    HE dumps most of their EU traffic off in peering exchanges. In general it works well, I don't think you have much to worry about. I'd be more concerned with your chosen provider's network management than I would be about HE's network.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by FastServ View Post
    HE dumps most of their EU traffic off in peering exchanges. In general it works well, I don't think you have much to worry about. I'd be more concerned with your chosen provider's network management than I would be about HE's network.
    I was under the impression that most European traffic is peered in general, and at that, a heck of a lot of it at the major peering exchanges. So I wouldn't expect that's the reason the performance isn't quite what I would want for EU traffic.
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  23. #23
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    +1 for HE we have used them for a very long time (I think we were customer #66). We are just in the process of adding L3 to our mix but as it is not installed yet can not comment on them.

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    We had some issues a few months ago where the HE link to Denver was over-saturated causing some issues but once they turned that link up we've not had any issues with them.
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    Not a fan of HE. We've been in their FMT2 data center for three plus years. We had two outages in the past month caused by DDoS attacks against their lone core router at FMT2. There have been at least two other outages because of other BGP issues/oversubscription in their network.

    They finally realized they need a second router at FMT2 but not in time to keep our business.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmst View Post
    They finally realized they need a second router at FMT2 but not in time to keep our business.
    HE has a single core router at most/all of their locations outside of FMT.

    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    So I wouldn't expect that's the reason the performance isn't quite what I would want for EU traffic.
    I never said it was not performing well -- just stating my observations. It actually performs quite well, and keeps the hop counts down for customers that think it really matters .

    You really have to give HE props on their looking glass. Being able to do route lookups and full BGP summaries on any router is pretty sweet; it's definitely cut down the amount of time dealing with support, at least for me.
    Last edited by FastServ; 06-03-2011 at 12:24 AM.
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  27. #27
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    Our experience with hurricane has been this: "Good when it's up" ... because when they're online, their service is fast. In Kansas City, they decided to bring one of their central points of presence in to a sub-optimal datanceter. When the facility their gear was located in lost power for announced maintenance, they went dark immediately. They did not have the redundancy you would expect from a carrier selling full gig connections to large companies. I would recommend their services since they have good peering and relatively short routes, but make sure to have a good blend of bandwidth as our experience has been less than optimal for uptime. Why they picked such a low-grade facility to enter downtown KC is beyond me.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhang View Post
    HE IPv4 is fine.
    HE IPv6 is the BEST you will ever get.

    I would take HE over Cogent at anytime.


    Yes, very.
    Also good routes to Asia (JP, CN, HK and alike).
    Well, since they own tunnelbroker.net pretty much any eyeball IPv6 traffic will need to go across HE at some point. They've set themselves up as a key asset in the IPv6 business, at least for now in the early adoption stages.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Your going to find most networks either have a good US footprint, EU or Asia and there is no "master provider".... hell L3 isn't even considered a real Tier1. They are only a tier1 in the US.

    Using this logic, there isn't such thing as a "real Tier1."

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DPG View Post
    Using this logic, there isn't such thing as a "real Tier1."
    I would agree that, if you can reach the global routing table without paying anyone, who cares if you can only do it from within one country / continent? The definition of a Tier 1 is that you can reach the entire internet routing table without paying for transit or peering, it doesn't specify that every network in the world is willing to interconnect with you at any location you desire for free.

    It's certainly worth keeping in mind that just because a network is a Tier 1, doesn't mean they have unlimited and preferential access to every network from every location in the world, but that doesn't affect their Tier 1 status or definition.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    It's certainly worth keeping in mind that just because a network is a Tier 1, doesn't mean they have unlimited and preferential access to every network from every location in the world, but that doesn't affect their Tier 1 status or definition.
    +1 Tier1 doesn't imply anything about bandwidth quality either. All it means is it's shoved down the only path it can go to maintain a Tier1 status.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdmoNet View Post
    Our experience with hurricane has been this: "Good when it's up" ... because when they're online, their service is fast. In Kansas City, they decided to bring one of their central points of presence in to a sub-optimal datanceter. When the facility their gear was located in lost power for announced maintenance, they went dark immediately. They did not have the redundancy you would expect from a carrier selling full gig connections to large companies. I would recommend their services since they have good peering and relatively short routes, but make sure to have a good blend of bandwidth as our experience has been less than optimal for uptime. Why they picked such a low-grade facility to enter downtown KC is beyond me.
    I agree it seems strange they wouldn't choose the finest facility, but chances are they moved into the first facility with >10G commitment ready for them. If there's enough demand in another facility, then they would move there as well.

    HE is a very good value when used in a BGP mix. That said, I wouldn't recommend single homing to HE, or any other carrier for that matter. Every carrier has a bad day once in a while. I have actually had more issues with L3 than HE, but I've also been with L3 much longer.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastServ View Post
    I agree it seems strange they wouldn't choose the finest facility, but chances are they moved into the first facility with >10G commitment ready for them. If there's enough demand in another facility, then they would move there as well.

    HE is a very good value when used in a BGP mix. That said, I wouldn't recommend single homing to HE, or any other carrier for that matter. Every carrier has a bad day once in a while. I have actually had more issues with L3 than HE, but I've also been with L3 much longer.
    They are a good value as long as you are aware of their overloaded peering relationships and poor routes and route around them for those destinations. We peer with HE @ AIX/TIE and ANY2LA and have direct transit in Phoenix, HE is a source of constant complaints on the west coast for Asian and AU/NZ traffic because of the congested links.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
    HE is a source of constant complaints on the west coast for Asian and AU/NZ traffic because of the congested links.
    Verified as true here as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
    They are a good value as long as you are aware of their overloaded peering relationships and poor routes and route around them for those destinations. We peer with HE @ AIX/TIE and ANY2LA and have direct transit in Phoenix, HE is a source of constant complaints on the west coast for Asian and AU/NZ traffic because of the congested links.
    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    Verified as true here as well
    This is true for many carrers. If it were as simple as dropping HE from the mix it wouldn't make any sense in maintaining a separate BGP network for Asian clients? From what I gathered it takes direct peering with the big C's if you want any level of consistency.
    Last edited by FastServ; 06-04-2011 at 09:01 AM.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastServ View Post
    This is true for many carrers. If it were as simple as dropping HE from the mix it wouldn't make any sense in maintaining a separate BGP network for Asian clients? From what I gathered it takes direct peering with the big C's if you want any level of consistency.
    Yeah, we've started adding direct peering with some Asian providers to improve those paths and avoid HE.

    <rant>

    They have their place for dirt-cheap push bits out this pipe and not care about the quality of the link to the destination. We have clients that don't care and want $1/meg transit and for the most part they don't complain as they are realistic and know they will get what they pay for. You can pay double to triple the rate of HE for much more globally reliable carriers and not deal with this issue all together.

    In all reality if $1-$2k per month in cost difference per GE circuit causes your business to lose money or not make any, your business model is bad. The BW market as a whole will be on the rise with the further consolidation of the historically low priced carriers into the larger more stable "profitable" (Yes, Level3 loses money) carriers.

    </rant>

  37. #37
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    OK so does anyone have a list of nets HE is not so hot with? Rather than the nebulus "Asia Links from West Cost". I am adding Level(3) and think some AS prepending may make sense for some of these nets if there are concrete problems with HE to the east.

    If it matters our peers are Verizon (from 11 Great Oaks), Level(3) (From SF) and HE (From Fremont 1). All at 1Gig

    Thanks,

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david_halliday View Post
    OK so does anyone have a list of nets HE is not so hot with? Rather than the nebulus "Asia Links from West Cost". I am adding Level(3) and think some AS prepending may make sense for some of these nets if there are concrete problems with HE to the east.

    If it matters our peers are Verizon (from 11 Great Oaks), Level(3) (From SF) and HE (From Fremont 1). All at 1Gig

    Thanks,

    Dave.
    everything that makes it past access-list 18 gets high pref, then everything else that gets filtered out on list 10 gets pref'd down to 105 which is one of the lowest prefs we have.

    12 IP Address: 216.218.200.65
    Routes Accepted/Installed:109498, Filtered/Kept:244062, Filtered:3910205
    Routes Selected as BEST Routes:11591

    So at best it has 11.6k prefixes we prefer to send out HE. Inbound we try not to let anything in over HE's network.

    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 10 permit _10933_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 15 permit _7784_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 20 permit _22561_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 30 permit _7922_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 35 permit _2711_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 40 permit _4771_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 50 permit _6181_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 55 permit _6407_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 60 permit _6128_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 70 permit _19108_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 75 permit _7459_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 80 permit _4788_
    ip as-path access-list 18 seq 85 permit _4134_

    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 5 deny _174$_
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    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 450 deny _23520_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 455 deny _6461_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 460 deny _38861_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 465 deny _3786_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 470 deny _2828_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 475 deny _3491_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 480 deny _31334_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 485 deny _9116_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 490 deny _12301_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 495 deny _2497_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 500 deny _5400_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 505 deny _10026_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 510 deny _8737_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 515 deny _25074_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 520 deny _13285_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 525 deny _8928_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 530 deny _2527_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 535 deny _680_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 540 deny _1103_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 545 deny _6805_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 550 deny _24724_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 555 deny _1257_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 560 deny _5089_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 565 deny _21502_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 570 deny _6774_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 575 deny _13127_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 576 deny _15557_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 577 deny _9143_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 580 deny _12709_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 581 deny _12322_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 582 deny _13184_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 583 deny _22829_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 584 deny _1267_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 585 deny _4323_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 586 deny _6799_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 587 deny _20825_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 589 deny _24940_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 590 deny _8881_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 591 deny _35228_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 592 deny _7992_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 593 deny _12874_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 594 deny _4648_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 596 deny _3243_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 597 deny _8402_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 600 permit _5068_
    ip as-path access-list 10 seq 690 permit .*

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    669
    Thanks Spudstr, good concrete information. What is you preferred way to prevent HE incoming connections? (We prepend our AS). If you are prepending your AS how many times?

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Reston, VA
    Posts
    3,132
    Quote Originally Posted by david_halliday View Post
    Thanks Spudstr, good concrete information. What is you preferred way to prevent HE incoming connections? (We prepend our AS). If you are prepending your AS how many times?

    Anything more than 3 prepends usually gets trunked and filtered off at 3 so more is piontless. We just don't announce our routes out HE, if you have two privders then prepend the snot out of it.

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