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  1. #1
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    Exclamation How do you protect against PayPal disputes?

    Hi

    It is becoming increasing popular for customers to raise disputes with PayPal saying that they have not received their service despite resources and login logs showing that they have.

    How do you guys prevent paypal from resolving the dispute in the claimants favor?

    I'm yet to experience one of this these disputes and come out on top, no matter what I say.

    Surely there is something that can be done to stop this?

    Input would be appreciated
    Andrew Storey

  2. #2
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    Investigate the new customer after sign up? Call them? Know them?
    Specially 4 You
    .
    JoneSolutions.Com ( Jones.Solutions ) is on the net 24/7 providing stable and reliable web hosting solutions and services since 2001

  3. #3
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    State in the dispute that they have signed up for intangible goods/service and you should win the dispute.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by net View Post
    Investigate the new customer after sign up? Call them? Know them?
    We use fraud protection in our billing system. There is no reason for us to do that. In addition that wouldn't protect us against a dispute being raised anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    State in the dispute that they have signed up for intangible goods/service and you should win the dispute.
    Have you done that before and won the dispute?
    Andrew Storey

  5. #5
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    If your side is genuine , you can update paypal with history of communication / tickets etc.

    We handle this for our clients and 90% of the cases, we win them. So you really dont have to be scared if you are 100 % right . Its just like someone suing you and you trying to come out of it
    Sam
    Supportlobby.com - Expertise in Windows/Linux server support, IaaS and PaaS Management
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  6. #6
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    I'm not scared at all, it comes with the territory and of course we're 100% correct in these situations. Its a common query and issue with PayPal for virtual services. Its not as black and white as people claim it to be.
    Are you saying that when someone signs up and pays via PayPal you can somehow update their transaction with records of communication?
    I've seen this requested in the actual dispute but not in the transaction itself.
    Andrew Storey

  7. #7
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    I'll typically state it's under 'intangible goods/service' in the first reply and follow that up with ticket details, email logs, etc.. Really once your not lying and are able to provide logs, etc.. It's a simple process and quite entertaining when the customer slips up or go mad in the dispute

    I'm yet to lose a case with paypal *touch wood*.
    Adam Hoban.
    ManobanWeb Group
    UK and US - Shared & Reseller Hosting Solutions

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa_face View Post
    Have you done that before and won the dispute?
    Paypal does NOT cover intangible goods, Have you even read their policys, etc?

    An intangible good is a good that is intangible, meaning that it can not be touched, as opposed to a physical good.

  9. #9
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    Yes I've read that but I assumed they protected the buyer not the seller which is part of the problem.
    Andrew Storey

  10. #10
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    * You must be doing something wrong...

    I've had a few people over the years get mad at self-hosted services, thinking that we would do something for less than a separate service contract and $85.00/hr labor.

    One guy in particular kept asking, "Where is my public_html folder?", and over and over again our techs informed him that his "Document Root" was ~/htdocs/, and if he wanted a public_html he needed to create it.

    Then he would proceed to dump a bunch of html pages into ~/

    It was sad, but funny to watch, because we actually explained it to him over the phone at least twice, showed him (This is way more than you should ever do for someone w/o charging them for your time, BTW), and he said he got it.

    He must have stroked out each night because the next day it would start all over again LOL.

    Well, it's always funny when it isn't happening to you I suppose, but we really tried with this guy and he was like, one of the last straws that broke the camel's back.

    Basically, nowadays, self-managed means just that, if it ain't broke, we charge, if you don't know what you're doing, then you should've bought a hand-held service from us instead.

    PayPal has ALWAYS found in our favor, and all we've ever done is simply say, "Services were delivered to Customer a/o blah blah blah date".


    That's it. We might have to say that twice if once is the pre-escalation, and yes, I will agree with the poster above that is is indeed enjoyable to watch the jerk squirm with almost uncontrollable rage because they realize they're not going to be able to rip us off like they prolly do everyone else!

    I hope that helps

    Kindest regards,
    Bradley D. Thornton - http://NorthTech.US - Registered Linux User #190795

    - "Ask Bill why the string in [MS-DOS] function 9 is terminated by a dollar sign. Ask him, because he can't answer. Only I know that." - Dr. Gary Kildall.

  11. #11
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    Paypal won't cover 'virtual' goods at all,
    To be honest I hate them for this,
    I've lost a lot simply because clients decided they didn't want what they'd been abusing for 29 days!

    I've lost 100% of these disputes,
    Yet paypal should realise that yes we may be able to recover disk space, but bandwidth?

    This is one reason I don't think PP is good for web-hosts, they really need to work with us at least a little!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallship View Post

    One guy in particular kept asking, "Where is my public_html folder?", and over and over again our techs informed him that his "Document Root" was ~/htdocs/, and if he wanted a public_html he needed to create it.

    Then he would proceed to dump a bunch of html pages into ~/


    Your story made me chuckle

  13. #13
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    Paypal buyer protection clearly stats that intangible goods and services are not covered. You just need to mention this in the dispute and maybe a few pieces of information about the service and you will win.

    This will not make so you will win charge backs though this is entirely different beast. Whether it's with Paypal or via your own merchant account the credit card company's will rule in the favor of the customer every time. The only time they will not is if you have a signature from the user so that means an in person transaction.

    There might be a few other fringe cases like claims of unauthorized and the user has a bunch of other transactions on their account filed the same. Then in that case probably was unauthorized.
    Tony B. - Chief Executive Officer
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NixDot View Post
    Paypal won't cover 'virtual' goods at all,
    To be honest I hate them for this,
    I've lost a lot simply because clients decided they didn't want what they'd been abusing for 29 days!

    I've lost 100% of these disputes,
    Yet paypal should realise that yes we may be able to recover disk space, but bandwidth?

    This is one reason I don't think PP is good for web-hosts, they really need to work with us at least a little!
    When they say they won't cover it, they mean for the buyer. That is to say, if you're a host and you're losing these disputes, you're doing something wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyB View Post
    This will not make so you will win charge backs though this is entirely different beast. Whether it's with Paypal or via your own merchant account the credit card company's will rule in the favor of the customer every time. The only time they will not is if you have a signature from the user so that means an in person transaction.

    There might be a few other fringe cases like claims of unauthorized and the user has a bunch of other transactions on their account filed the same. Then in that case probably was unauthorized.
    Yeah, it won't help with credit card chargebacks (though sending the information to Paypal can help, as I believe they take this information and use it to fight the credit card company to show that the charges were authorized), and it won't help with hot paypal accounts... but really there's not much you can do in those cases.
    I used to run the oldest commercial Mumble host.

  15. #15
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by NixDot View Post
    I've lost 100% of these disputes,
    Wow, that's unfortunate. Perhaps you shouldn't sell virtual goods via PayPal. We don't. We sell service. And like I said above, have won 100% of any disputes that have been levied against us.

    I hope that helps

    Kindest regards,
    Bradley D. Thornton - http://NorthTech.US - Registered Linux User #190795

    - "Ask Bill why the string in [MS-DOS] function 9 is terminated by a dollar sign. Ask him, because he can't answer. Only I know that." - Dr. Gary Kildall.

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa_face View Post
    Hi

    It is becoming increasing popular for customers to raise disputes with PayPal saying that they have not received their service despite resources and login logs showing that they have.

    How do you guys prevent paypal from resolving the dispute in the claimants favor?

    I'm yet to experience one of this these disputes and come out on top, no matter what I say.

    Surely there is something that can be done to stop this?

    Input would be appreciated
    Not too much can be done, other than submitting your evidence such as live chat logs, ticket logs or email address logs. It's best to offer multiple methods of payment


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    United Kingdom
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    Simple

    Contact paypal tell them it was a webhosting account/service they will then close the dispute. Now you have won

  18. #18
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    About CC chargebacks - how does this work? I have never been involved in one myself. If the user says this is unauthorized transaction doesn' this mean that his CC info has been stolen so the bank has to cancel his card and he has to get a new one?

    And one more question - if a user pays through paypal, then makes a CC chargeback, doesn't paypal close their paypal account?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rds100 View Post
    About CC chargebacks - how does this work? I have never been involved in one myself. If the user says this is unauthorized transaction doesn' this mean that his CC info has been stolen so the bank has to cancel his card and he has to get a new one?

    And one more question - if a user pays through paypal, then makes a CC chargeback, doesn't paypal close their paypal account?
    Never happened in my case however I would imagine you would contact there card issuer and resolve it with them. CC companies donít like fraudsters! However there is some really shady companies out there and its not always due to the client.

    At the point of failure with the CC company i would sell the debt to a collection agency to make losses minimal.

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