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  1. #1
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    Core router suggestions

    I need yet another core router, this time for a smaller network.

    Budget is plenty, just suggest.

    Functions:
    Will announce one AS, a /18 and some /24 and /23 + a /32 IPv6.

    Required ports NOW:
    1x 1G Uplink (FIBER)
    5x 1G Network (COPPER)

    Future Upgrades possibly needed:
    1x 10G Uplink, 2x 1G Uplink (All FIBER)
    4x 10G Network (FIBER)

    Future Upgrades 100% needed:
    1x 10G Uplink
    4x 10G Network
    (everything Fiber)

    Other requirement:
    2 PSUs at least (better 3) (220V)
    Good cooling
    FULL IPv6 support (1 table for start, over HE.net - 1 carrier later)
    Enough ram for 3 full IPv4 routing tables.


    Normal traffic around 300Mbit outgoing, 80Mbit incoming.
    Peak 800Mbit out/in.

    OS does not matter.
    As said: budget is plenty, just suggest and i choose something that fits our budget.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Cisco 6503 chassis with a Sup720-3BXL 1gb/1gb supervisor engine,
    a 6704 4 x 10 gig port blade,
    a 6748 48 port GigE blade,
    and two 1400 watt power suppplies.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techee View Post
    Cisco 6503 chassis with a Sup720-3BXL 1gb/1gb supervisor engine,
    a 6704 4 x 10 gig port blade,
    a 6748 48 port GigE blade,
    and two 1400 watt power suppplies.

    6500 is a dead cow.

    http://www.juniper.net/us/en/product...specifications
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  4. #4
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    Check out the Juniper MX80 or MX240. The 80 comes in some smaller bundles you can start with, then software unlock as you grow.
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  5. #5
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    Another vote for the MX80/MX240. You could get the MX80-5G (or MX5 as I think they are calling it now), which has 20 SFP gig ports, then you could unlock the extra MIC slot and put in either another 20 GE, or 4 x 10GE and/or unlock the 4 onboard XFP 10GE.
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  6. #6
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    I am using Mikrotek for a few years now, solid configurations beating those established brands by a mile in terms of ROI.

  7. #7
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    I'd say either a Juniper or a Brocade, Cisco is kinda of meh.

    I'd pick up a Brocade MLX or XMR or a Juniper MX series as previously mentioned.

    We're running Brocades(some Foundry badged) and Junipers and the last outage on any of them was 2007 and that was due to a PDU failure. I've even got a couple older M-Series Junipers that have been online since 2005 (gotta love Juniper/Brocade hot upgrades).

  8. #8
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    Those requirements are minimal, a MX is overkill, IMHO. The Cisco 6500 will do everything the OP is asking and he can get everything, including the 10g ports for under $30k. I love Juniper, but the cost of adding 10g ports is still crazy, last I checked at least. Why spend a lot more on a Juniper, what real advantage does it give on this configuration?

    To note, in larger networks I agree the Ciscos are showing their age, we're only using them in the distribution layer ourselves anymore. They're still very solid boxes, and with the minimal routes, traffic, and overall complexity of this setup I don't see why you wouldn't save the money.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techee View Post
    Cisco 6503 chassis with a Sup720-3BXL 1gb/1gb supervisor engine,
    a 6704 4 x 10 gig port blade,
    a 6748 48 port GigE blade,
    and two 1400 watt power suppplies.
    For the price of all that, you could get a new MX5 from Juniper. Having to deal with JUNOS over IOS I'd take anyday!

    Plus the MX5 can be expanded to an MX80 in stages with various license upgrades.

    I think that platform meets the growth requirements of the OP to a T.

    Rather than a 48 port GigE blade, I'd offload that to an ex4200 (if they want to scale and stack in the future) or multiple ex3200's...

    And you'd probably use half the power or less...
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techee View Post
    Cisco 6503 chassis with a Sup720-3BXL 1gb/1gb supervisor engine,
    a 6704 4 x 10 gig port blade,
    a 6748 48 port GigE blade,
    and two 1400 watt power suppplies.
    Based on the needs listed the 24 port SFP card should be fine for GigE and then go with the 8 port 10 gige card, not all that much more. Yes, it is oversubscribed, but based on the throughput levels listed the 40g backplanes should be plenty.

    When we were getting quotes for redundant MX160 configs the pricing was north of $80k for about 20 gige and 8 10 gige ports. Cisco can be had for less than half that. Yes, the Juniper is better, but for this use, not twice as good, IMHO, as they'll both work.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    When we were getting quotes for redundant MX160 configs the pricing was north of $80k for about 20 gige and 8 10 gige ports. Cisco can be had for less than half that. Yes, the Juniper is better, but for this use, not twice as good, IMHO, as they'll both work.
    Dual MX160's would be overkill in this case... But you're right, the Cisco config will be slightly cheaper if the OP can get the SUP at a decent price.

    Both configs will get the job done for sure.
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  12. #12
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    I also should note that we rarely have ddos attacks (not much) - they should be either blocked or nullrouted at the core (nullrouting does not matter).

    I am also thinking about a vyatta box:
    3510 (4x1G RJ45 onboard) + 6Gb Ram upgrade (8 total) + 4 x 64Gb SSDs (RAID10) + 1x 2 port Gbit RJ45 + redundant PSUs
    Total: 6 port RJ45 Gbit
    (exact match + 1 media converter for the uplink)

    Later:
    - the expansion card
    + 1x 4 port 10G card
    + 1x 4 port 10G card
    Total:
    4x 1Gbit RJ45
    8x 10Gbit fiber
    (4 Gbit and 3 10G ports too much, but nice to have anyway)

    What do you think?
    Still waiting for Vyatta to refer me to a sales rep.

  13. #13
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    Why would anyone want 4x SSDs with RAID10 on a router? Is this a router or a database server?

  14. #14
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    You could also take a look at the Brocade XMR series, we have recently purchased 2x the XMR 4000 series, good enough for what we need it for, only they aint cheap
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rds100 View Post
    Why would anyone want 4x SSDs with RAID10 on a router? Is this a router or a database server?
    Because i have no use for them anyway, and the 3XXX comes with a 4port Hardware RAID card (but only cheap 250Gb drives).

    You could also take a look at the Brocade XMR series, we have recently purchased 2x the XMR 4000 series, good enough for what we need it for, only they aint cheap
    Brocade is... out of budget.
    Dont get me wrong, quality hardware/software is nice - but we will never cross the 10G mark so using a 100k router is total overkill.

  16. #16
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    How many upstreams are you getting?

    I noticed there's only 1 uplink mentioned in your requirements... If you only plan on using 1 or 2 transit providers you could do BGP on an ex3200 (only 16k incoming routes) but it's enough for failover and l3 routing.

    You could even do 2 of them in VRRP.

    Maybe if you give us a budget we'd be able to help out more?
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  17. #17
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    How many upstreams are you getting?
    First 1 (Full feed IPv4, Full IPv6 + HE.net IPv6 over tunnel)
    Later 2-3, but all over a single fiber (yes, this is not good - but i have no choice at this location)

    Maybe if you give us a budget we'd be able to help out more?
    ~25-30k euro for the standard config (5xGbit)

  18. #18
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    If you're dealing with that budget, there is definitely a solution out there other than Vyatta. But, you can setup Vyatta to be your Backup in-case something major happens, to get you by.

    Look into something like the foundry BigIron RX. I've never used one myself, but I've heard good things about them while on a budget...
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  19. #19
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    Whether you go for Juniper or Cisco, factor in to your budget that you'll want two of them... no point spending £xx k on a fantastic state of the art router for your entire network to be entirely reliant on a single point of failure.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhang View Post
    I am also thinking about a vyatta box:
    3510 (4x1G RJ45 onboard) + 6Gb Ram upgrade (8 total) + 4 x 64Gb SSDs (RAID10) + 1x 2 port Gbit RJ45 + redundant PSUs
    Total: 6 port RJ45 Gbit
    (exact match + 1 media converter for the uplink)
    We run a few Vyatta systems (custom built boxes), they have been rock solid workhorses. Its not for everything, everywhere -- but when it fits, the price is right.

  21. #21
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    Whether you go for Juniper or Cisco, factor in to your budget that you'll want two of them... no point spending £xx k on a fantastic state of the art router for your entire network to be entirely reliant on a single point of failure.
    It is anyway, i only have 1 Fiber to the outside.

  22. #22
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    Id say go for the 6500 ( only one as you only have one uplink.. ) but im a cisco man and ive had problems with juniper before.
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  23. #23
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    Cisco 6500 should be a good choose

  24. #24
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    +1 for the Juniper MX series.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhang View Post
    First 1 (Full feed IPv4, Full IPv6 + HE.net IPv6 over tunnel)
    Later 2-3, but all over a single fiber (yes, this is not good - but i have no choice at this location)


    ~25-30k euro for the standard config (5xGbit)
    Yeah, you should be able to find a Cisco 6500 right in/around your budget then. Won't get close with Juniper.
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  26. #26
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    Cisco 6500 have many interface you can use. And you can choose your Engine card for your network.

  27. #27
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    Just curious why is Cisco so much cheaper with the 6500 series" I thought Cisco was usually more expensive than Juniper.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunH View Post
    Just curious why is Cisco so much cheaper with the 6500 series" I thought Cisco was usually more expensive than Juniper.
    The 6500 series was launched in 1999. Despite the age, they still work really well for some people. I'm sure the OP could easily get a used setup for under $30k. We've been real happy with Network Liquidators (now Vology). They are more expensive than other resellers but they offer a lifetime warranty (as long as Cisco still sells the product). They have been really good at getting us replacements within 24 hours the couple times we had stuff fail.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooby2 View Post
    The 6500 series was launched in 1999. Despite the age, they still work really well for some people. I'm sure the OP could easily get a used setup for under $30k. We've been real happy with Network Liquidators (now Vology). They are more expensive than other resellers but they offer a lifetime warranty (as long as Cisco still sells the product). They have been really good at getting us replacements within 24 hours the couple times we had stuff fail.
    Thank for filling me in. I didn't know they had been out that long. But it dose make sense as it seems everyone uses the 6500 switches.

  30. #30
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    6500's have been used by so many people for so long that gear is all over the secondary market. Then, unlike Juniper, Cisco will gladly support and warranty any of that 2nd hand gear through their Smartnet program without recertification or anything. Makes it easy then to get cheap second hand gear while still being backed by quality support.
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  31. #31
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    Vista Computers has some insane deals on the 6500s.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  32. #32
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    The chassis itself will generally be cheap, but you'll want to get brand new power supplies and fan tray and a 720-3BXL if you want full routes.

    Personally I'd go for the 6503-E chassis.
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  33. #33
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    You don't want to waste a rack with a 6513-E? SHucks...
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    6500's have been used by so many people for so long that gear is all over the secondary market. Then, unlike Juniper, Cisco will gladly support and warranty any of that 2nd hand gear through their Smartnet program without recertification or anything. Makes it easy then to get cheap second hand gear while still being backed by quality support.
    How much does the smartnet program cost? I've considered buying used cisco gear in the past, but if I can't get updated firmware at a reasonable price it's really a deal breaker.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by boonchuan View Post
    I am using Mikrotek for a few years now, solid configurations beating those established brands by a mile in terms of ROI.
    How are you using a Mikrotek as a core router? I thought those $100 routers were either toys or used for wifi hot spots... not for core functions...BGP, etc.. does it even work?!?! I'm curious..

  36. #36
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    BGP, etc.. does it even work?!?! I'm curious..
    Yea, they do BGP (even v6).
    But this are the more expensive boards, basically PC hardware like Vyatta.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    How much does the smartnet program cost? I've considered buying used cisco gear in the past, but if I can't get updated firmware at a reasonable price it's really a deal breaker.
    Runs between $6k and $7k a year last I checked.
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  38. #38
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    I got that configurations now, while they dont exactly match they are fine for our port needs but i am unsure about cmpatibility of the parts:


    Code:
    1 	WS-C6506
    1 	WS-C6K-6SLOT-FAN2
    2 	WS-CAC-3000W
    1 	WS-SUP720-3BXL
    1	WS-SUP32-10GE-3B
    1	MEM-XCEF720-1GB
    1	MEM-MSFC3-1GB
    									    #INPUT: 2x1GF OUTPUT 2x10GF
    
    
    1 	WS-C6506
    1 	WS-C6K-6SLOT-FAN2
    2 	WS-CAC-3000W
    1	WS-X6704-10GE
    1	WS-SUP32-10GE-3B
    1	MEM-XCEF720-1GB
    1	MEM-MSFC3-1GB
    									    #INPUT:2x10G OUTPUT: 4x10G
    
    
    
    1	WS-C6504-E
    1	FAN-MOD-4HS
    2	PWR-2700-AC/4
    1	VS-S720-10G-3CXL
    1	WS-X6704-10GE
    									#INPUT: 2x10GF 1x1GE 2x1GX OUTPUT: 4x10G
    In case of 10G outputs i would just add a 2x10G -> 24x1G switche.

    I honestly have no idea about cisco, so please advise me if above configurations are good

  39. #39
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    I would highly recommend you talk to a cisco sales rep

    Taking advise on here is good and all, however if you get it wrong it could cost you a fair bit.
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  40. #40
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    Well of course i will not set it up but pay someone to do it and take care of it, this is just the first stage of finding compatible hardware

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