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Thread: Guide me the WHT Gods...
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05-26-2011, 10:51 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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Guide me the WHT Gods...
Here is the specs of a server I'm looking to use for my new vps offering..
2 x Intel Xeon Quad-Core 5410 2.33GHz 12MB Cache
14 GB DDR2
2 x 1 TB SATA Drive (7200 RPM)
Raid 1 software
10tb of bandwidth
100 connection
How does that sound?? Most of my customers are asking for vps so I'm taking the leap into it..
So from my calculations I'll be offering 512 of ram, 35 diskspace, 1024 burstable, 250 GB bandwidth per node.
How does that sound to you guys and gals?? Give me some insight..Last edited by nicbillie; 05-26-2011 at 10:52 PM. Reason: misspelling
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05-27-2011, 12:33 AM #2Web Hosting Master
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Congrats! Welcome to the VPS hosting world!
The only thing that REALLY sticks out at me here is the amount of hard drives and the fact that you might be using a software RAID.
I would make one suggestion - shoot for RAID 10 This would be using at least 4 drives and use a hardware RAID card. You will certainly notice a huge performance increase over a hardware RAID card and using the 4 drives.
Which platform do you plan on supporting? OpenVZ (I assume, b/c you mentioned burstable) ? Xen? And just curious, which vendor will you be using for your virtualization support?
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05-27-2011, 03:42 AM #3Aspiring Evangelist
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Hmmm 14gb ram on a VPS?? Why not go for a dedicated server? I really doubt someone offers a 14gb ram VPS tbh.
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05-27-2011, 03:57 AM #4Web Hosting Master
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read the op again, he wants that dedi for hosting vps's.
@OP yeah raid 10 is a must imho especially if your loading about 27 people on there, and hardware raid would be best but not 100% necessary, software raid does pretty good in linux but do not use crappy o/b fake raid.█ -> INCEPTION HOSTING LIMITED Since 2010!
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05-27-2011, 03:58 AM #5Aspiring Evangelist
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05-27-2011, 06:21 AM #6Junior Guru
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Hard drives speed is going to suck, You'll want at least 4 10k drives if not 8x 2.5" SAS for a decent VPS node with 20 odd customers. Of course it depends on your price market but 2x7.2's will get totally swamped as if you're using RAID you'll be down to an effective single drive!
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05-27-2011, 08:48 AM #7Junior Guru Wannabe
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05-27-2011, 08:51 AM #8Web Hosting Master
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You are going to loose out on I/O as you are putting 30 VPS's on there. You really want RAID-10 on there if going SATA. If you go SAS you might get away with it depending how heavy your customers push the VM
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05-27-2011, 08:55 AM #9Junior Guru Wannabe
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05-27-2011, 08:57 AM #10The Linux Specialist
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I recommend Xen if you want stability and reliability.
Specially 4 U
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05-27-2011, 09:02 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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I would always recommend XEN over OpenVZ, dont get me wrong OpenVZ is a great product but XEN gives customers confidence and the way I always look at it... if you don't plan to oversell why would you use OpenVZ, there is no performance advantage.
Regarding Sata vs SAS, obviously SAS will out perform SATA however it totally depends on the customer usage you could in theory have 100 customers on your node and between them they may only eat 20% of the I/O at the same time you could have 20 customers that eat 100% of your I/O so SAS gives you the best possible chance but unless you know exactly who your customers are and what they plan on doing in advance (Obviously not possible) then its juts luck of the draw, you may get to 9 customers and have your I/O maxed out.
I would suggest you contact Soluslabs and take Gold support.█ -> INCEPTION HOSTING LIMITED Since 2010!
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05-27-2011, 11:16 AM #12Web Hosting Master
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software raid is really killing the IO performance. You need at least hardware RAID1 for VPS node, preferably hardware RAID10.
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05-27-2011, 05:37 PM #13WHT Addict
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4x1TB fast (aka modern like RE4) SATA drives in RAID 10 should work ok in most situations for 30 VPS. Won't be great disk speed but not bad.
From our experience, OpenVZ outperforms Xen pound for pound on the same hardware.
Xen adds an emulation layer (ie QEMU) which does make it slower than OpenVZ.
OpenVZ's bad reputation mostly comes from massive oversellers, if you're not going to be one of them, you'll do fine.
OpenVZ is great for hosting plans, if that is what most of your clients will be doing (website hosting), you'll be able to maximize your CPU/IO usage with OpenVZ without the extra QEMU layer required by Xen.
Xen also requires kernel RAM space reserved beforehand so this will lower your max number of possible VPS by eating into your 14GB RAM for Xen Overhead.
Also for the CPU, the 5410 may be a bit under-powered for 30 VPS, really depends on your users. If they're low usage VPS', it should be ok. 30 High usage VPS users may choke the dual 5410's.
If you are thinking about RAID 5 or 6, without a doubt you'll need a hardware RAID card to speed up parity bit calculations.Last edited by KiloServe; 05-27-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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05-28-2011, 07:50 PM #14Junior Guru Wannabe
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This seems like its gonna be a debate for years to come.. I'm going to start with xen for the first server and use openvz on the next..
From what I was told xen using solusvm has that feature.. Is that wrong??
The only negative I could find about xen..
Is has 2 x quad L5410 2.33GHz 16mb cache with 8 cores each... Shouldn't that be enough power under the hood to host 20 vps users??
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05-28-2011, 08:11 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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some great info and advice given in this thread I think.
I will refer you back to my original thoughts though....
You just have to suck it and see, as you have no way of predicting what your users are going to be doing it is impossible to say you need SAS or what CPU set will be ok.
As an example (Most people here will likely never give you numbers but hopefully this will help you make a decision) on one of our nodes out of pure chance every user/vps on there holds a low traffic website the load never ever gets above 0.56 CPU usage is almost never gets beyond 0.10% and disk I/O has NEVER been under any sort of contention.
There all XEN PV and there are currently 26 VPS's on the node, OK so its a powerhouse of a server but the reality is with the current client set they 'could' just as easy be sitting on a budget server for all the resources they consume.
I think the best advice I can give you is to just make sure your server can be upgraded if necessary and please please please have a disaster recovery plan in place if you do ultimately decide to go raid 1 and sata last thing any of us want to read is another bad VPS review
Happy to discuss more specifics via PM if you want.
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05-29-2011, 01:31 AM #16WHT Addict
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Oh, don't get me wrong, we use Xen too, it does have its benefits over VZ. Xen offers far more OS choices and custom kernels. In addition Xen has much much better resource granularity and control. There is some bleed through of CPU resources on a VZ hosting platform whereas Xen has harder CPU boundaries.
From what I was told xen using solusvm has that feature.. Is that wrong??
OpenVZ=fastest
Xen-PV=fast
Xen-HVM = ok
KVM = ok
Is has 2 x quad L5410 2.33GHz 16mb cache with 8 cores each... Shouldn't that be enough power under the hood to host 20 vps users??
We actually used the (E)5410 versions of these same chips before.
Under most cases 20 VPS nodes on a Xeon L5410 is plenty enough.█ █ █ KiloServe Hosting - 48 Core Nodes and specializing in high disk I/O VPS
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05-29-2011, 01:58 AM #17Web Hosting Guru
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You will be fine on the CPU side, the only downside is the raid, I will recommend if you want those client happy go 4 sata hard drives and raid 10 from hardware no software, with SAS you won't make any money, to expensive the ROI will be eternal and no storage space.
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05-29-2011, 02:05 AM #18WHT Addict
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05-29-2011, 02:13 AM #19Web Hosting Guru
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I think one year ago I was using that same setup that you have but I was using SolusVM + xen-hvm, the reason I pick xen-hvm is that I had clients with windows & linux. I don't know now but at that time I was unable to live migrate vps to other nodes it had to be manually moved, but with openvz you can.
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