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  1. #1
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    Dedicated Question On Creating VM's.

    Hello,

    I'm looking into expanding into some more powerful virtual machines and was wondering about one thing. How many Xen virtual machines would this system below be able to handle?

    Dual 2.0GHz Intel Xeon Nehalem E5504
    24GB of RAM
    2x600GB SAS in Raid 0

    Do you think the disk I/O would be fine on the 600GB SAS 15k drives, or should I go RAID 10? If I go with Raid 10 you think a 1TB SAS 7200k RPM be fine on the I/O?

  2. #2
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    The answer is 0.

    Don't ever run VPS on RAID1 unless you don't care about the data.

    Once you fix that silly mistake, then the number is entirely arbitrary. Clearly, the more you add will lessen the performance, and you can keep adding until there is zero performance, or you can stop adding when you feel the performance got to a threshold.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    The answer is 0.

    Don't ever run VPS on RAID1 unless you don't care about the data.
    RAID1? Where do you get this? Please read the thread before responding

    Well In my performance I want all virtual machines to have good performance as these aren't going to be oversold and will be around $20 for 512MB plan.

  4. #4
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    FYI:

    SATA 7.2Krpm -> 100 IOPS

    SAS 15Krpm -> 300 IOPS

    IMO RAID 0 only for temporary files / temporary database tables
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    RAID1? Where do you get this? Please read the thread before responding

    Well In my performance I want all virtual machines to have good performance as these aren't going to be oversold and will be around $20 for 512MB plan.
    He meant RAID0, I think. Remember, if one drive fails, the entire array is dead until you can replace the drive and restore from backups. You should add more drives and choose a redundant RAID level.

  6. #6
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    for disk I/O please use RAID10 with 4 X 300 (price is allmost same but usable space is half), its more better option for DATA, if data is important for you.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    RAID1? Where do you get this? Please read the thread before responding

    Well In my performance I want all virtual machines to have good performance as these aren't going to be oversold and will be around $20 for 512MB plan.
    I meant RAID0.

    Quote Originally Posted by XenonVault View Post
    He meant RAID0, I think. Remember, if one drive fails, the entire array is dead until you can replace the drive and restore from backups. You should add more drives and choose a redundant RAID level.
    yes.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakhani View Post
    for disk I/O please use RAID10 with 4 X 300 (price is allmost same but usable space is half), its more better option for DATA, if data is important for you.
    Just with pricing I wouldn't be able to give much diskspace. Then when I compare to others I'd be giving nothing compared to others that don't oversell.

    @Dougy - I was thinking that but you never know here anymore. Lots of people post just to post . Note: Sorry if I came off a bit rude in my post.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    @Dougy - I was thinking that but you never know here anymore. Lots of people post just to post . Note: Sorry if I came off a bit rude in my post.
    Your post certainly came across as rude, but that's OK. I get it a lot because I'm a wiseass.

    Go for RAID1 or 10 and the number of VM's is dependent on the usage.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    Your post certainly came across as rude, but that's OK. I get it a lot because I'm a wiseass.

    Go for RAID1 or 10 and the number of VM's is dependent on the usage.
    Correct me if I'm wrong as lots of host market RAID0 as mirroring and RAID1 as stripping. So I was going for mirroring as it would be able to save data. I would like to do 4*300GB then upgrade to 4*600GB but that would destroy the RAID.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong as lots of host market RAID0 as mirroring and RAID1 as stripping. So I was going for mirroring as it would be able to save data. I would like to do 4*300GB then upgrade to 4*600GB but that would destroy the RAID.
    RAID10 is 2 RAID0's that are in a RAID1 more or less, or maybe I have it backwards, it's 2 RAID1's that are RAID0'd.

    But go ahead, use just RAID 0..
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  12. #12
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    Don't do it, RAID-0 is ridiculous for offering any kind of service. One disk fails / coughs and all your data is gone.

    Go for 4x 600GB SAS 15K in RAID10 with a good hardware raid card and 50 VM's depending on usage should be OK.

    Ideally for a system that size you want to be looking at 8x disks, not 4 though.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCS-Chris View Post
    Don't do it, RAID-0 is ridiculous for offering any kind of service. One disk fails / coughs and all your data is gone.

    Go for 4x 600GB SAS 15K in RAID10 with a good hardware raid card and 50 VM's depending on usage should be OK.

    Ideally for a system that size you want to be looking at 8x disks, not 4 though.
    Ideally I want to have these built for performance not for placing the most virtual servers on a machine and getting crappy performance.

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  15. #15
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    Sure go ahead and use RAID-0 if you dont give two hoots about the data of your clients, Despite everyone warning you against it, You'll see what we're all talking about when you come to a drive failure and your having to restore backups over a 24 hour period, Then you find some of the backup process has corrupted or gone wrong and you need to restart thus causing another 24 Hour delay, which in this time customers have already left you and come here kicking and screaming "MY VPS IS DOWN..."

    All this could of been resolved within minutes if you had used RAID-1

    Again I will repeat this, Never run RAID-0 on its own whiles it might give you some better performance over RAID-1 it will cause you headaches in the long run, If you want the performance of RAID-0 and the saftey net of RAID-1 then RAID-10 is the way to go sunshine.
    Last edited by Server Management; 05-22-2011 at 11:40 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    Ideally I want to have these built for performance not for placing the most virtual servers on a machine and getting crappy performance.
    Built for performance yet you only have two disks? Use 8x 15K SAS in RAID10 with an Adaptec 5405 or simular. More IOPS, throughput and redundancy.

  17. #17
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    Well thanks everybody for your suggestions and thoughts. I'm cemented on the 4*600GB in RAID10 and will develop a plan structure for these virtual servers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong as lots of host market RAID0 as mirroring and RAID1 as stripping
    Lots of people might be offering it like that, doesn't make it right though :p

    RAID-0 is Striped
    RAID-1 is Mirrored
    RAID0+1 (often referred to as 10) is Striped then Mirrored

    BAsically, always go for the highest reliability & performance you can within the number of disks you can fit in the chassis - so 2 disks, raid1, 4 disks raid 0+1, 6 disks raid 6 etc
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapidServers_ View Post
    Well thanks everybody for your suggestions and thoughts. I'm cemented on the 4*600GB in RAID10 and will develop a plan structure for these virtual servers.
    Why not get SSD. 4x 600GB SAS drives are not worth there cost. Two SSDs in raid 1 will beat them. This would be a good selling point for you VMs.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4wk View Post
    Two SSDs in raid 1 will beat them. This would be a good selling point for you VMs.
    On 24GB system? The VPSes would have very little disk space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by h4wk View Post
    Why not get SSD. 4x 600GB SAS drives are not worth there cost. Two SSDs in raid 1 will beat them. This would be a good selling point for you VMs.
    Interesting suggestion and something I've been toying with too. How reliable are (single) Solid state drives vs RAID arrays?

    My guess is that it's too early to tell as solid state drives have not really been mainstream for the 5 years it take for them to reach old age.

    Anybody want to chip in with some experience?
    EDIT: I do wonder where you can get a SSD at the size of 1.2 TB though

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry[CoffeeSprout] View Post
    Interesting suggestion and something I've been toying with too. How reliable are (single) Solid state drives vs RAID arrays?

    My guess is that it's too early to tell as solid state drives have not really been mainstream for the 5 years it take for them to reach old age.

    Anybody want to chip in with some experience?
    EDIT: I do wonder where you can get a SSD at the size of 1.2 TB though
    you most certainly can get close

    http://www.wiredzone.com/OCZ-OCZSSD2...32023739~0.htm
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  23. #23
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    Somehow I was expecting something like that.. still 4x600GB drives are probably cheaper. (Around 350 euro a piece from a local vendor, add 400 for the RAID)

    Even still, if the cost is close to the same, would one device (SSD) be close to being as reliable as a RAID containing 4 drives?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry[CoffeeSprout] View Post
    Interesting suggestion and something I've been toying with too. How reliable are (single) Solid state drives vs RAID arrays?

    My guess is that it's too early to tell as solid state drives have not really been mainstream for the 5 years it take for them to reach old age.

    Anybody want to chip in with some experience?
    EDIT: I do wonder where you can get a SSD at the size of 1.2 TB though
    Non the new Intel SSDs have failed on me. We bought some of OCZ drives 6 months ago and 25% of them died. All our new servers are running Intel SSDs in Raid 1.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4wk View Post
    Why not get SSD. 4x 600GB SAS drives are not worth there cost. Two SSDs in raid 1 will beat them. This would be a good selling point for you VMs.
    I've looked into this. The provider I would like to go with only has a 256Gb solid state. Plus pricing of each VM would be pretty high. As we don't want to oversell and SSD are pretty pricy.

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