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  1. #1

    * CloudLinux + WP = Issues...Please Help!

    Hey Everyone,

    We are having some memory usage problems with CloudLinux as end users, and if you guys have any insight, help, or advice, we'd be hugely appreciative.

    Basically, our hosting provider is the process of upgrading their servers to CloudLinux, and in doing so they are imposing a 500MB memory (RAM) usage limit. In theory, this sounds great; no one account on a shared server will be able to hog all of the resources and slow down everyone else's sites.

    Unfortunately, many of us who are running Wordpress sites have encountered trouble, big-time. We are getting a plethora of 500 and 503 errors, many sites will not load properly, and in the Resource Usage section of our cpanels, it shows that we are pegging that 500MB limit consistently, leading to multiple memory faults per hour.

    Now, WP can be a memory hog, no doubt. So we've been working for the last week to analyze our sites for memory leaks, etc. We have removed plugins, tweaked plugins, changed themes, upgraded themes, downgraded themes, installed caching plugins...the works -- all too little avail.

    We then hired out a Wordpress expert to analyze our sites for problems. When he load-tested a batch of different yet problematic WP sites on a test server, he could not make any of them consume more than 250MB RAM, let alone 500. His ultimate analysis was that nothing was wrong with the WP installations, their configurations, plugins, themes, or anything. That something must be happening on the server.

    Additionally, there is no constant among WP sites which are having problems. Other users with issues are using completely different plugins, themes, etc. We have sites with ZERO active plugins, a well-known theme, and only 5-10 visitors per day hitting the 500MB limit.

    Now, I know that, to most of you, this issue probably still SOUNDS like a WP problem. I KNOW that this is the simplest explanation. That our sites were bursting before, and now they're unable to. Right now, I think our hosting provider still thinks it's a WP problem, and it's hard to blame them. But get this: we have been able to take a site from a CloudLinux server on which it had consumed nary a bit of RAM in the last 7 days, migrate it to another CloudLinux server (which is supposed to be configured identically), and have it pegging the 500MB limit consistently, not loading properly, throwing errors, etc...now that's hard to explain in any way except that there is a server/CL configuration issue.

    Does anyone have ideas about what this could be or how this could happen? Anything that might point us in the right direction?

    I guess we could all just transfer our sites to another host (and some of us are having to do that as we speak), but hell, I guess I'm just stubborn and want to get to the bottom of this.

    I thought I'd come here to the experts and see what y'all have to say. Thanks in advance for your input!

  2. #2
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    I can't assist you but I can say that I have 2 WP sites on HawkHost shared hosting which uses CloudLinux and LiteSpeed. I am not having memory issues. cPanel resource usage indicates HawkHost allocates a user 1GB RAM max. The graph does not show what I use, ever, but does show max at 1 GB. HawkHost allocates you one CPU (which I assume they count cores that thread additional CPU's). I have had to watch my plugin usage because of CPU. Other than that, no problems or error pages.
    Hosting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sceadugenga View Post

    Additionally, there is no constant among WP sites which are having problems. Other users with issues are using completely different plugins, themes, etc. We have sites with ZERO active plugins, a well-known theme, and only 5-10 visitors per day hitting the 500MB limit.

    Now, I know that, to most of you, this issue probably still SOUNDS like a WP problem. I KNOW that this is the simplest explanation. That our sites were bursting before, and now they're unable to. Right now, I think our hosting provider still thinks it's a WP problem, and it's hard to blame them. But get this: we have been able to take a site from a CloudLinux server on which it had consumed nary a bit of RAM in the last 7 days, migrate it to another CloudLinux server (which is supposed to be configured identically), and have it pegging the 500MB limit consistently, not loading properly, throwing errors, etc...now that's hard to explain in any way except that there is a server/CL configuration issue.
    Have you checked non wordpress sites on the host? Setting up a few simple test sites (for example a 100% static site, dynamic site with mysql usage, etc.) would help determine if the server is miscalculating memory usage (either by accident or on purpose).
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  4. #4
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    It should be noted that anybody running CloudLinux + LiteSpeed cannot actually limit your ram via CloudLinux (this is straight from the primary CloudLinux developer). If you're hitting a RAM limit regularly with your current provider (i.e. they're not meeting your needs) I'd probably just suggest switching providers.

    The point I'm trying to get across, however, isn't that you should simply avoid any and all CloudLinux powered hosts, but you should ask them what the memory limit is if they're not running LiteSpeed.
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  5. #5
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    It sounds like configuration issue/low limit. Quite often 500MB is not enough. CloudLinux limits virtual memory, not physical memory. As the result if each PHP process takes 100MB of virtual memory (even if it takes just 10MB of physical RAM) -- 6 of such processes will right away be over the limit.
    I think there is a lot of confusion on how those memory limits work among hosts, and many set it lower then needed
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  6. #6
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    Which version of CloudLinux are you on?

    How many concurrent users are you having? (the WP User Online can tell you).

    Have you access to advanced site usage stats e.g. cPanel X3? If yes, how many entry processes are you seeing? And what is the amount of entry processes limited to?

    Is the mysql server localhost? Or an external server?

    Wordpress' memory fingerprint shouldn't be 500mb+ unless you're experiencing really heavy traffic on a plugin disabled site.

    Have you experienced with caching options? E.g. Wp Super Cache or W3 Total Cache?

  7. #7

    Unhappy

    Hey Guys,

    Thanks so much for getting back to me on this. I'll tackle each of your questions one at a time:

    Have you checked non wordpress sites on the host? Setting up a few simple test sites (for example a 100% static site, dynamic site with mysql usage, etc.) would help determine if the server is miscalculating memory usage (either by accident or on purpose).
    We have not. This is a good idea though.

    The point I'm trying to get across, however, isn't that you should simply avoid any and all CloudLinux powered hosts, but you should ask them what the memory limit is if they're not running LiteSpeed.
    This is good to know. We actually moved a few problematic sites to Site5, who is now using CloudLinux (I believe), and these sites have been fine. I believe they are not using a hard limit, but average RAM usage over time. Unfortunately, I can't remember exactly what the figures were (should have saved the transcript of my chat with support).

    It sounds like configuration issue/low limit. Quite often 500MB is not enough. CloudLinux limits virtual memory, not physical memory. As the result if each PHP process takes 100MB of virtual memory (even if it takes just 10MB of physical RAM) -- 6 of such processes will right away be over the limit.
    I think there is a lot of confusion on how those memory limits work among hosts, and many set it lower then needed
    This is exactly the sort of configuration issue we were concerned about; unfortunately, we're getting next to no support from our hosting provider... So frustrating...

    Which version of CloudLinux are you on?
    Not sure. I'll try to find out.

    How many concurrent users are you having? (the WP User Online can tell you).
    We've got sites having problems with only 1 user online.


    Have you access to advanced site usage stats e.g. cPanel X3? If yes, how many entry processes are you seeing? And what is the amount of entry processes limited to?
    We do indeed have access to this. Looks like we're hitting the RAM limit with only 1-4 max entry processes. The entry processes limit (LEP) is 20.
    Is the mysql server localhost? Or an external server?
    Localhost.

    Have you experienced with caching options? E.g. Wp Super Cache or W3 Total Cache?
    We've installed WP Super Cache on all of our problematic sites, while other users are having trouble with sites that already had W3 Total Cache and other caching plugins installed. In some cases, WP Super Cache has helped slightly, but sites with that installed, as well as assorted other RAM-reducing tweaks, are still getting server errors about 50% of the time.

    If any of this info gives you guys any further ideas as to what might be going on, please let me know. Again, thank you so much for your questions and feedback.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sceadugenga View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    We are having some memory usage problems with CloudLinux as end users, and if you guys have any insight, help, or advice, we'd be hugely appreciative.

    Basically, our hosting provider is the process of upgrading their servers to CloudLinux, and in doing so they are imposing a 500MB memory (RAM) usage limit. In theory, this sounds great; no one account on a shared server will be able to hog all of the resources and slow down everyone else's sites.

    Unfortunately, many of us who are running Wordpress sites have encountered trouble, big-time. We are getting a plethora of 500 and 503 errors, many sites will not load properly, and in the Resource Usage section of our cpanels, it shows that we are pegging that 500MB limit consistently, leading to multiple memory faults per hour.

    Now, WP can be a memory hog, no doubt. So we've been working for the last week to analyze our sites for memory leaks, etc. We have removed plugins, tweaked plugins, changed themes, upgraded themes, downgraded themes, installed caching plugins...the works -- all too little avail.

    We then hired out a Wordpress expert to analyze our sites for problems. When he load-tested a batch of different yet problematic WP sites on a test server, he could not make any of them consume more than 250MB RAM, let alone 500. His ultimate analysis was that nothing was wrong with the WP installations, their configurations, plugins, themes, or anything. That something must be happening on the server.

    Additionally, there is no constant among WP sites which are having problems. Other users with issues are using completely different plugins, themes, etc. We have sites with ZERO active plugins, a well-known theme, and only 5-10 visitors per day hitting the 500MB limit.

    Now, I know that, to most of you, this issue probably still SOUNDS like a WP problem. I KNOW that this is the simplest explanation. That our sites were bursting before, and now they're unable to. Right now, I think our hosting provider still thinks it's a WP problem, and it's hard to blame them. But get this: we have been able to take a site from a CloudLinux server on which it had consumed nary a bit of RAM in the last 7 days, migrate it to another CloudLinux server (which is supposed to be configured identically), and have it pegging the 500MB limit consistently, not loading properly, throwing errors, etc...now that's hard to explain in any way except that there is a server/CL configuration issue.

    Does anyone have ideas about what this could be or how this could happen? Anything that might point us in the right direction?

    I guess we could all just transfer our sites to another host (and some of us are having to do that as we speak), but hell, I guess I'm just stubborn and want to get to the bottom of this.

    I thought I'd come here to the experts and see what y'all have to say. Thanks in advance for your input!
    this isnt a cloudlinux issue and this isnt a wordpress issue either. This is simply a resource issue. Get enough resources for your requirements is the answer. 500MB is not high enough of a limit, you will need to increase that or go with a hosting provider that offers more resources per user.

    I really LOVE what CloudLinux is doing - it is basically forcing an equalization in the hosting industry. No matter what specs people are selling in a plan, it all comes down to % CPU, RAM and IO - that is all that matters - and soon everyone will be selling shared hosting on a hard resource model..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoker View Post
    I can't assist you but I can say that I have 2 WP sites on HawkHost shared hosting which uses CloudLinux and LiteSpeed. I am not having memory issues. cPanel resource usage indicates HawkHost allocates a user 1GB RAM max. The graph does not show what I use, ever, but does show max at 1 GB. HawkHost allocates you one CPU (which I assume they count cores that thread additional CPU's). I have had to watch my plugin usage because of CPU. Other than that, no problems or error pages.

    We actually disable the memory limiting portion which is why it always reports at 0mb used out of 1gb.

    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    I really LOVE what CloudLinux is doing - it is basically forcing an equalization in the hosting industry. No matter what specs people are selling in a plan, it all comes down to % CPU, RAM and IO - that is all that matters - and soon everyone will be selling shared hosting on a hard resource model..
    Yep have been saying this for a while web hosting is not about space or bandwidth it's about % CPU, RAM and I/O. The tricky part right now is MySQL which is much more difficult to control. This is where the majority of our abuse happens now even when doing limiting on it. You can have queries with low CPU foot print but cause a lot of disk access for example.

    Regardless of some issues still not resolved it's a real reality check for a lot of web site owners. Previously they'd jump host to host until one did not come with a hammer down on their usage. Now with CloudLinux being adopted more and more they're simply going host to host and finding their site seems to always be really slow.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyB View Post
    Yep have been saying this for a while web hosting is not about space or bandwidth it's about % CPU, RAM and I/O. The tricky part right now is MySQL which is much more difficult to control. This is where the majority of our abuse happens now even when doing limiting on it. You can have queries with low CPU foot print but cause a lot of disk access for example.
    having specialized mysql servers really resolves a lot of this - but, none the less, you are absolutely correct

    Regardless of some issues still not resolved it's a real reality check for a lot of web site owners. Previously they'd jump host to host until one did not come with a hammer down on their usage. Now with CloudLinux being adopted more and more they're simply going host to host and finding their site seems to always be really slow.
    the resource model is awesome - end of the day, you are going to need to pay for what you use - its been a long time coming in this industry. As you indicated already, we are not quite there yet, but, we are on the way - cloudlinux is playing a big role in this process on the linux side anyway...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    this isnt a cloudlinux issue and this isnt a wordpress issue either. This is simply a resource issue. Get enough resources for your requirements is the answer. 500MB is not high enough of a limit, you will need to increase that or go with a hosting provider that offers more resources per user.

    I really LOVE what CloudLinux is doing - it is basically forcing an equalization in the hosting industry. No matter what specs people are selling in a plan, it all comes down to % CPU, RAM and IO - that is all that matters - and soon everyone will be selling shared hosting on a hard resource model..
    While your point is valid, it doesn't seem relative to this thread. Any way you slice it, a shared hosting user should be able to run a wordpress blog with one visitor and no plugins. If this isn't possible the account limitations in place are excessive, or the server is miscalculating usage.
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  12. #12
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    As a user, I have to agree with the statements made about CloudLinux and keeping users resource usage in check.

    I realize that while paying $5 a month for hosting, I'm not going to be able to hog the system resources.

    I like the CloudLinux proactive approach to monitoring accounts and actually prefer being limited by how my site uses allocated resources rather than having my site crippled because another account is killing the server.

    I was hitting CPU limits using WordPress plugins, deleted some of them, and haven't had the problem since.

    People just have to be realistic about getting what they pay for.
    Hosting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by FiberLightning View Post
    While your point is valid, it doesn't seem relative to this thread.
    ok

    Any way you slice it, a shared hosting user should be able to run a wordpress blog with one visitor and no plugins. If this isn't possible the account limitations in place are excessive
    I am not trying to be an @$$ here, but, you essentially said the same thing as I did - just worded it differently. I was trying to be more polite and more subtle then coming right out and saying what you just said..


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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    ok



    I am not trying to be an @$$ here, but, you essentially said the same thing as I did - just worded it differently. I was trying to be more polite and more subtle then coming right out and saying what you just said..

    Didn't intend to sound argumentative. It's just to me, the most glaring thing about the OPs statements is that the sites in question seem as if they should be able to run within the limits of their account as is. 500+MB of memory for a blog with next to no visitors doesn't sound right.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FiberLightning View Post
    Didn't intend to sound argumentative. It's just to me, the most glaring thing about the OPs statements is that the sites in question seem as if they should be able to run within the limits of their account as is. 500+MB of memory for a blog with next to no visitors doesn't sound right.
    I think this response from Igor over at cloudlinux explains this pretty well

    Quote Originally Posted by iseletsk View Post
    It sounds like configuration issue/low limit. Quite often 500MB is not enough. CloudLinux limits virtual memory, not physical memory. As the result if each PHP process takes 100MB of virtual memory (even if it takes just 10MB of physical RAM) -- 6 of such processes will right away be over the limit.
    I think there is a lot of confusion on how those memory limits work among hosts, and many set it lower then needed
    The issue is quite clearly one of resources being allocated per account. As I originally stated (which you didnt like apparently ) - Cloudlinux is forcing an equalization in the hosting industry.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    I think this response from Igor over at cloudlinux explains this pretty well



    The issue is quite clearly one of resources being allocated per account. As I originally stated (which you didnt like apparently ) - Cloudlinux is forcing an equalization in the hosting industry.
    You obviously know the ins and outs of Cloudlinux better than I , but it still seams strange that an account can be moved to another host running cloudlinux and suddenly use half as much memory with the same sites/visitors etc.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FiberLightning View Post
    You obviously know the ins and outs of Cloudlinux better than I , but it still seams strange that an account can be moved to another host running cloudlinux and suddenly use half as much memory with the same sites/visitors etc.
    sure, it is possible there is a configuration issue with the one provider. i could buy that. Having said this

    But get this: we have been able to take a site from a CloudLinux server on which it had consumed nary a bit of RAM in the last 7 days, migrate it to another CloudLinux server (which is supposed to be configured identically)
    I think the "which is supposed to be configured identically" is the key here. My guess would be one provider is giving more resources then another provider. This has been debated for a long long time, but, having one provider not being able to execute dynamic sites while others have no issue - has been a perpetual issue in this industry. CloudLinux really isnt that hard to configure - it works right out of the box. My guess is provider 1 is simply cramming more accounts onto a given server and each account gets less resources then provider 2. Provider 1 should likely only be used for hosting static html sites, whereas provider 2 is a little friendlier to dynamic sites (at least those not pushing a lot of traffic). The real test is which providers will allow dynamic sites to push the bandwidth advertised in the plans more often then not under "normal" usage of dynamic, mysql generated sites

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiberLightning View Post
    While your point is valid, it doesn't seem relative to this thread. Any way you slice it, a shared hosting user should be able to run a wordpress blog with one visitor and no plugins. If this isn't possible the account limitations in place are excessive, or the server is miscalculating usage.
    I'm unsure how many sites the OP is running on one CloudLinux account. If it's only one, yes, agree! But if it's say 20 WP blogs, there mght be an issue...

  19. #19
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    Here's my ressource usage stats for a fairly advanced Wordpress setup (Bergholts opskrifter) with an average no. of concurrent users of 30.

    bergholts-opskrifter-wordpress-cloudlinux.pdf

    The site sees roughly 1,200 unique visitors per day, and load is concentrated in a 8-12 hour time frame.

    As you can see the average memory consumption is nowhere close to 512M. It's around 2-4MB through out the day.

    Max memory usage peaks at around 300MB, which again, is very far fom 512MB.

    So either 1) your ressource allocation is too limited -- or there's a setup problem 2) somewhere in the hosting setup.

    How many WP sites are you hosting on the CloudLinux account? Is it a standard shared one? Or reseller hosting?

  20. #20
    Hey Guys,

    How many WP sites are you hosting on the CloudLinux account? Is it a standard shared one? Or reseller hosting?
    It's a reseller account. We are running only 1 WP site per cpanel account, and each cpanel account is supposed to be limited to 500MB RAM.

    Bergholt, as for the pdf you attached, wow: you're using far less memory with a lot more entry processes, concurrent users, and overall traffic.

    I've attached the Resource Usage graphs from one of our sites. It only gets 30-50 visitors per day, and uses only 3 well-known plugins (WP Super Cache, Clicky for analytics, and Subpage-View for listing child pages) - both of which we tried deactivating to no avail. When the memory usage finally drops on 5/5 is when we migrated the site to another host.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Resource-Usage-MIC.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	89.9 KB 
ID:	19083

    My guess is provider 1 is simply cramming more accounts onto a given server and each account gets less resources then provider 2. Provider 1 should likely only be used for hosting static html sites, whereas provider 2 is a little friendlier to dynamic sites
    Interestingly enough, we moved the test sites I was talking about between servers at the same hosting provider. But yeah, the theory still holds true - they may have loaded up sites on some servers more than others.

    Overall, I really like what CloudLinux is doing too. Not only does it keep one account from monopolizing a shared server's resources, it has the ancillary benefit of educating end users about what parameters really matter when it comes to hosting their sites (like it has me, ha). THAT SAID, I do think we have an issue when a WP site with no plugins and virtually no traffic uses (supposedly) too much RAM.

    Several more users have turned up on our hosting provider's forums, complaining of the same issue. Unfortunately, we are getting next to no support from our provider.

    CloudLinux probably makes our host's lives a lot easier, and we are just the collateral damage, and hell, it's hard to blame them if you look at the big picture. They were having tons of outages and such which probably motivated this upgrade. But still, we deserve better than dead silence.

    Plus I think there are a lot more WP users at our host with problems; it's just that these errors are not readily appropriate when navigating to your site. Unless you are paying close attention to certain metrics like bounce rate, revenue, number of indexed pages, or other metrics affected by memory faults and 500/503 errors, I'm afraid the issue can fly underneath the radar for awhile...
    Last edited by sceadugenga; 05-07-2011 at 10:53 AM.

  21. #21
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    CloudLinux is also limiting user MySql usage and disk I/O, along with CPU, RAM, and running processes. I suppose it's not going to be too bad as long as they have it set up correctly and within reason. But I agree with you that these hosts will lose business if an account using a CMS, blog, or forum can't run with more than a handful of users (and there are a lot of them out there). Heck, a Linode 512 is only $19.95 a month.
    Last edited by TheJoker; 05-07-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sceadugenga View Post
    Hey Guys,



    It's a reseller account. We are running only 1 WP site per cpanel account, and each cpanel account is supposed to be limited to 500MB RAM.

    Bergholt, as for the pdf you attached, wow: you're using far less memory with a lot more entry processes, concurrent users, and overall traffic.

    I've attached the Resource Usage graphs from one of our sites. It only gets 30-50 visitors per day, and uses only 3 well-known plugins (WP Super Cache, Clicky for analytics, and Subpage-View for listing child pages) - both of which we tried deactivating to no avail. When the memory usage finally drops on 5/5 is when we migrated the site to another host.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Resource-Usage-MIC.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	89.9 KB 
ID:	19083

    Interestingly enough, we moved the test sites I was talking about between servers at the same hosting provider. But yeah, the theory still holds true - they may have loaded up sites on some servers more than others.
    Did you migrate other sites on the same date? If yes, my interpretation would be that all the cPanel accounts are in the same CloudLinux container.

    How many sites / cPanel accounts in total were you running?

    Could you shed some light on the rough price range we're talking about here?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergholt View Post
    Did you migrate other sites on the same date? If yes, my interpretation would be that all the cPanel accounts are in the same CloudLinux container.
    No, each cPanel user has it's own LVE (i.e. CloudLinux container).
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  24. #24
    Could you shed some light on the rough price range we're talking about here?
    Price is roughly on par with any of the reseller accounts from providers like HostGator, Site5, Lunarpages, etc -- $25 to $100 per month, depending on disk space and bandwidth (and as I understand it, CloudLinux limits like max RAM, entry processes, etc, are the same no matter which plan you have).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    No, each cPanel user has it's own LVE (i.e. CloudLinux container).
    Ok, in that case it's no wonder hard limits are hit.

    The OP has access to 7% of total CPU capacity and 1GB per cPanel user.

    If say 10 or 25 cPanel accounts are created, that's a lot of ressources!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sceadugenga View Post
    Price is roughly on par with any of the reseller accounts from providers like HostGator, Site5, Lunarpages, etc -- $25 to $100 per month, depending on disk space and bandwidth (and as I understand it, CloudLinux limits like max RAM, entry processes, etc, are the same no matter which plan you have).
    Ok -- and how many cPanel accounts were concurrently / actively running WP sites?
    Last edited by bergholt; 05-07-2011 at 01:17 PM.

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    Each cPanel account under a reseller should have it's own set resource limits, no?
    Hosting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bergholt View Post
    Ok, in that case it's no wonder hard limits are hit.

    The OP has access to 7% of total CPU capacity and 1GB per cPanel user.

    If say 10 or 25 cPanel accounts are created, that's a lot of ressources!!!
    Wait wait...I don't think I understand. The CloudLinux RAM limits are set for each individual cpanel account, not the overall reseller account. And the cpanel accounts are not all on one server. So how many cpanel accounts we create should not matter unless we are reaching the max bandwidth or disk space for the overall reseller account, right?

    Sure, multiple cpanel accounts may amount to a lot of resources overall, but we NEVER have more than 1-3 cpanel accounts per node/server. The hosting provider has servers spread out across the US (West, Central, East), as well as the UK and Singapore.

    Also, each cpanel has access to 500MB, not 1GB, and 6% CPU, not 7% (I think).

    Each cPanel account under a reseller should have it's own set resource limits, no?
    Yes. That's the way our host has us understanding it, and I think that's how CloudLinux usually works (although I'm certainly no expert).
    Last edited by sceadugenga; 05-07-2011 at 01:29 PM.

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    252
    Quote Originally Posted by sceadugenga View Post
    Wait wait...I don't think I understand. The CloudLinux RAM limits are set for each individual cpanel account, not the overall reseller account. And the cpanel accounts are not all on one server. So how many cpanel accounts we create should not matter unless we are reaching the max bandwidth or disk space for the overall reseller account, right?

    Also, each cpanel has access to 500MB, not 1GB, and 6% CPU, not 7% (I think).
    In theory, yes. But it might imply overseeling of ressourecs. Provided the LVE environment values are per single cPanel account.

    How many cPanels accounts are included in the reseller package? Unlimited until the max bandwidth or or diskspace limits were hit?

    In my experience it's always a question of cpu, ram and i/io, not bandwidth usage.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    leicester, U.K.
    Posts
    2
    I am so pleased that I found this forum as I have exactly the same challenges as the OP.

    Here is a screen capture of my resource usage for the past 4 hours.

    I have attached a screen capture of the past 4 hours below.

    I should point out that it is now 09:00 on Sunday morning here in the U.K. (04:00 Eastern) which means that very few people have been accessing the site during the period.

    The average memory usage has been virtually zero, only boosted only by my visit to wp-admin. I would be surpeised if there was any real traffic. Yet the maximum has hit the 500 for every hour. Actually, The situation seems worse when I am actually in wp-admin. I seem to get lots of these errors when I am clicking "Posts", "Plugins etc. I can click twice and get a 500, then the third time it is OK.

    I have been checking through internetsupervision . com and the results are so erratic. Sometimes it is fine everywhere, sometimes some are clear and others give a 500. It is just variable.

    This is so frustrating and, yes, the support have been blaming wp or plugins. They now ignore half of my messages on the ticket.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails last4hours.PNG  

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorB View Post
    I am so pleased that I found this forum as I have exactly the same challenges as the OP.

    Here is a screen capture of my resource usage for the past 4 hours.

    I have attached a screen capture of the past 4 hours below.

    I should point out that it is now 09:00 on Sunday morning here in the U.K. (04:00 Eastern) which means that very few people have been accessing the site during the period.

    The average memory usage has been virtually zero, only boosted only by my visit to wp-admin. I would be surpeised if there was any real traffic. Yet the maximum has hit the 500 for every hour. Actually, The situation seems worse when I am actually in wp-admin. I seem to get lots of these errors when I am clicking "Posts", "Plugins etc. I can click twice and get a 500, then the third time it is OK.

    I have been checking through internetsupervision . com and the results are so erratic. Sometimes it is fine everywhere, sometimes some are clear and others give a 500. It is just variable.

    This is so frustrating and, yes, the support have been blaming wp or plugins. They now ignore half of my messages on the ticket.
    Which version of Wordpress do you use?

    The memory usage patterns that you and OP document in this thread strike me as very untypical, cf. my previously posted screendump of memory use for a site with app. 30-50 concurrent users and a heavy plugin (around 20 including ressource intensive rss import ones) setup.

    Does CloudLinux allow overselling of RAM?

    Do you know how many accounts your host keep per server?

  32. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    leicester, U.K.
    Posts
    2
    I am using the latest version of WP 3.1.2. One of the first things that I did was to go through and make sure that all the WP and plugins were up to date.
    I have no idea how many hosts per server but it is Hostnine if that helps.
    They have told me that it shows the problem as my username there but cannot pin it down to which site might be causing the problem. Having read this and some other forums, I believe though, that the error is not at my end but at theirs.
    I have about 15 sites on this shared hosting account. None of them get very much traffic.

  33. #33
    How much is your time worth? If facing so many problems and without definitive answer from your webhosting company, go to WHT offers, buy another account and test with another domain. If it works better, move there, and keep your current host for static websites or drop them.
    Around two decades of web marketing experience & millions of visitors.
    NunoAlex.com explains my expertise & how I can help you.
    Contact me!

  34. #34
    Have you checked non wordpress sites on the host? Setting up a few simple test sites (for example a 100% static site, dynamic site with mysql usage, etc.) would help determine if the server is miscalculating memory usage (either by accident or on purpose).

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Liberty Hill, TX
    Posts
    338
    Well, I didn't know that I knew OP in the other thread I just answered - so Hi again!

    We have just instituted CloudLinux, and we did arrive at the 500 MB Memory limit by testing out various limits and found what, for our servers, appeared to be the "sweet spot" (others mileage may vary based on their customers and population) - only 5-10 sites per server was consistently hitting the memory max, while 99% of the sites never got near those limits.

    Now, WordPress is pretty popular, and while many of the sites that have been hitting the resource limits have been WordPress sites, when looking into the situation it wasn't all WordPress sites on that particular server having the problem; that one site may be misbehaving and on the same server another 100 may run fine even with higher traffic.

    In most cases, we could track down culprits - someone regenerating the entire sitemap each time an article was posted, and having set up an autobot to post every 5 minutes. In another case, a plugin asked to grab 256 Megs of memory for 3 separate operations. Almost none were running caching. In some cases, without taking an in depth look at someone's installation, we could not readily spot the issue but we did, in all cases, confirm that other installations were not facing the same issue.

    We're not adverse to contemplating higher limits, but in many cases these have been isolated sites on a machine where plenty of other sites are running fine running the same software and similar or higher traffic work fine, and for the overwhelming (nearly all) of our customers, those limits have worked and have stabilized server performance.

    We are attempting to share the historical information that we have to assist people in troubleshooting their issue but for a few sites, we just don't know why they perform the way they do when other sites on the same machine work much better.
    Jen Lepp
    “Customer service represents the heart of a brand in the hearts of its customers.” – Kate Nasser

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,123
    Quote Originally Posted by JenLepp View Post
    We have just instituted CloudLinux, and we did arrive at the 500 MB Memory limit by testing out various limits and found what, for our servers, appeared to be the "sweet spot" (others mileage may vary based on their customers and population) - only 5-10 sites per server was consistently hitting the memory max, while 99% of the sites never got near those limits.
    Igor (from CL) replied in another thread about this and I've spoken with him about this at length; the memory limit uses privvmpages similar to: http://wiki.openvz.org/UBC_secondary_parameters

    It's not actual memory usage, but virtual memory/allocated. So saying you set it to 500MB doesn't mean much without knowing the exact php configuration and 32 vs 64 bit OS, etc.

    From my experience on fresh cPanel install, 64 bit, you need to set it higher or you will run into issues, particularly with wordpress (standard install).

    Remember, virtual != actual usage.

    Regardless, once you understand the CL parameters it's *very* useful and highly recommended.
    www.idologic.com - Reseller, VPS and dedicated hosting - Friendly Customer Service - DirectAdmin - cPanel - InterWorx

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Liberty Hill, TX
    Posts
    338
    Last night we went over some things and did raise the limit - previously, after some complaints, we had turned off the memory limitations completely (as some do) but that, unfortunately, didn't work for us.

    A few of our customers, when they want resources, they really want resources.

    We've upped it to 1 Gig as of last night across the board, and we'll see how that works. Since most (99%) don't take up that much, hopefully the doubling will help those having some issues. We'll continue to monitor it and try and find that sweet spot.

    Wish there was a module for that.
    Jen Lepp
    “Customer service represents the heart of a brand in the hearts of its customers.” – Kate Nasser

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,123
    What worked for us is to use the php memory_limit as well as the limits imposed by CL. They work on different levels as a pair they work well.
    www.idologic.com - Reseller, VPS and dedicated hosting - Friendly Customer Service - DirectAdmin - cPanel - InterWorx

  39. #39

    CloudLinux + PHP issue - sorted.

    I believe I have found the cause of all these issues!
    CloudLinux (excellent idea and product) limits my RAM to 256MB.
    My host has PHP's memory_limit set to 128MB.
    When a PHP page is first called, the memory_limit of 128MB is assigned (for ~100 milliseconds), then reduced to the actual RAM required (in my case, 524KB).
    I'm not using WordPress, but have AJAX code calling multiple PHP pages simultaneously - wham, I hit the limit.
    I have some (relatively) simple demo code, which you are free to copy and use to test with at:
    DingoSeatCovers.com.au/demo
    The PHP pages are one-liners.
    I'm trying to persuade my Website Host to reduce PHP's memory_limit from 128MB to reduce this issue.
    Anyone have contacts with Apache/PHP to see if the "assign memory_limit" could be changed?
    Contacted CloudLinux, but no success, as they do not consider it their problem - fair enough, I think.

    Most aggravating thing is, Website Hosts see this as a "we have found the heavy users, and they are the problem". No, the heavy users are more likely to see this issue, but the problem is a very high PHP memory use (very brief, but actual) and CloudLinux seeing that breaching the limit.

    My code (not fancy) did not automatically retry when finding 500 errors, so I saw the exact problem much earlier and more easily.
    Most good code (jQuery and WP) is likely to retry the 500 errors, and so mask this problem from sites with low usage.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolyon View Post

    Most aggravating thing is, Website Hosts see this as a "we have found the heavy users, and they are the problem". No, the heavy users are more likely to see this issue, but the problem is a very high PHP memory use (very brief, but actual) and CloudLinux seeing that breaching the limit.
    the problem is "heavy users" is a relative term. in your case, your particular hosting provider has determined that this is the max usage a single account can use. The fact they have set their limit to a point where your script wont execute means you need to upgrade your package with this hosting provider to whatever they offer which has adequate resources for your script to execute.

    Alternatively, look for a provider that offers more resources in their cloudlinux containers so that your script can execute. likely though, the costs will be higher for more resources.

    this isnt a problem with cloudlinux and it may or may not be a problem with your hosting provider (depends on how you look at it I guess). but, with the limits they set, they are clearly telling you what sites and scripts they deem to be appropriate for their shared environment and which ones they dont. and if you need more resources then is offered in their shared packages, then you will need to upgrade to their other solutions which accommodate the usage you need.

    this is where total cost of ownership comes in. You may consider other shared hosting too expensive, but, if your scripts require too many resources to execute on the less expensive providers - then higher end shared hosting may make more sense then upgrading to vps solutions with lower priced shared hosts...

    it really is up to you to determine how many resources you need (which it seems you have done) - and then find the solution and provider which can best accommodate those requirements for you

    hope this helps...

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