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  1. #1
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    OpenVZ versus Xen

    What are your opinions on OpenVZ versus Xen? Are you willing to pay extra money to know that your VPS resources are not being oversold or would you prefer paying less, but you may not necessarily get all of your resources? If you do prefer OpenVZ (or even if you don't ), what do you think is a good ratio to oversell at?

  2. #2
    Another Openvz vs xen thread :p

    Anyways I always get better results with openvz. Just make sure that you are getting it from a reputable vps provider. But honestly I actually dont see any difference on the performance of my two vps using both openvz and xen. I would only get a xen vps if I really need to have more control on my vps.

  3. #3
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    From a general consumer's point of view, unless you have the need for custom kernels and/or run java, in which case Xen, shop for a quality provider rather than the virtualization method.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purely View Post
    What are your opinions on OpenVZ versus Xen? Are you willing to pay extra money to know that your VPS resources are not being oversold or would you prefer paying less, but you may not necessarily get all of your resources? If you do prefer OpenVZ (or even if you don't ), what do you think is a good ratio to oversell at?
    Xen can be oversold just like OpenVZ. Except not as horrendously. I would not pay extra just to get a VPS that's "acceptable" (assuming same provider).

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedFactor View Post
    From a general consumer's point of view, unless you have the need for custom kernels and/or run java, in which case Xen, shop for a quality provider rather than the virtualization method.
    OpenVZ can't run a lot of stuff Xen can. Try Varnish on it, results are hilarious.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by VPSForge-Ray View Post
    But honestly I actually dont see any difference on the performance of my two vps using both openvz and xen. I would only get a xen vps if I really need to have more control on my vps.
    Not yet until you use special software that is hungry in memory like Java.

    It is not just a control over VPS. There are many differences with Xen vs OpenVZ but one thing that I do not like with OpenVZ is the way it allocate memory in each software/application.

    If you have the money, go for Xen.

    If you are selling vps, you will eventually impress with Xen when it comes to stability/security.
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  6. #6
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    I'll throw VMWare into the mix....
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  7. #7
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Purely View Post
    What are your opinions on OpenVZ versus Xen? Are you willing to pay extra money to know that your VPS resources are not being oversold or would you prefer paying less, but you may not necessarily get all of your resources? If you do prefer OpenVZ (or even if you don't ), what do you think is a good ratio to oversell at?
    OpenVZ - Resources are shared so If your uses is high then your VPS will be suspended for excessive usage or other users can affect your uptime,etc...

    Xen - Resources are Dedicated so other users can't affect your VPS Speed, uptime,etc..
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DewlanceHosting View Post
    OpenVZ - Resources are shared so If your uses is high then your VPS will be suspended for excessive usage or other users can affect your uptime,etc...

    Xen - Resources are Dedicated so other users can't affect your VPS Speed, uptime,etc..
    And which resources do you think are dedicated in Xen? Is it the memory, the CPU time, or the disk IO?
    - The RAM can be oversold on Xen (although usually not as much as on OpenVZ).
    - The CPU time can also be oversold. How many CPUs do you think a Xen host node has, to be able to offer you 4-8 cores for your Xen VPS?
    - The disk IO obviously cannot be guaranteed and can be abused as much as on OpenVZ and even more.

    So a good OpenVZ can be as good as a good Xen. A bad (oversold) Xen can be as bad as a bad OpenVZ. It just depends on what the host is doing and what is their busyness model.

  9. #9
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    For me, Xen is definitely better than OpenVZ, and it's worth paying more for.

    At least with my setup, I can run much more with less "reported" memory usage with Xen than I can with OpenVZ.

    My memory usage typically hovers around 200MB used on a 512MB Xen (or VMware) VPS. That's with MySQL, Nginx, 5 PHP-FPM children, and various other processes running.

    I tried running it on a 256 guaranteed / 512 burstable OpenVZ VPS once, but I had to reduce the MySQL memory consumption and limit PHP-FPM children to 1 for it to even work. And even then, it would run out of memory occasionally.

    However, if you need a cheap VPS for non-webhosting, and non-memory-intensive purposes, OpenVZ could be ok. Like backup storage, or a DNS server.

  10. #10
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    cpanel on openvz would be wonky. what control panel is good for openvz?
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  11. #11
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    The debate between OpenVZ and Xen really should not center on overselling at all as that's dependent on user-choice. These platforms differ the most in terms of kernel flexibility and memory configuration. The memory situation becomes a lot nicer on OpenVZ soon - http://wiki.openvz.org/VSwap - though. Still not perfect - all platforms have their strengths and weaknesses.
    Last edited by Orien; 05-03-2011 at 01:56 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninkynonk View Post
    cpanel on openvz would be wonky. what control panel is good for openvz?
    Odd. We have plenty of customers using cPanel and never had any issue. Perhaps you can explain your 'wonky' a bit more in detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orien View Post
    The debate between OpenVZ and Xen really should not center on overselling at all as that's dependent on user-choice. These platforms differ the most in terms of kernel flexibility and memory configuration. The memory situation becomes a lot nicer on OpenVZ soon - http://wiki.openvz.org/VSwap - though. Still not perfect - all platforms have their strengths and weaknesses.
    Summed up perfectly. For 99% of the VPS users, it is a non-issue. Only those looking to push the limits or running resource heavy programs are those who really need to concern themselves with the different oddities.
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  13. #13
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    the person who used it told me it was wonky and slow compared to his XEN VPS (that had the same specs). might have been his setup though....

    Glad to hear yours is good.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninkynonk View Post
    the person who used it told me it was wonky and slow compared to his XEN VPS (that had the same specs). might have been his setup though....

    Glad to hear yours is good.
    OpenVZ definitely has memory complications but is not slow - it actually has less overhead than Xen. That sounds like the person was on an overloaded node instead.

  15. #15
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    I'm really entertained by the VPS voodoo that passes for "common knowledge".

    First of all, the VPS platform, by it's very design is meant to be "oversold" to some degree. The entire technology is about taking computing resources that would have been idle and utilizing them. So you put 30 clients on a server that has 8GB of RAM and give each client 1GB of VPS RAM. Technically, you're "oversold" yet the host machine still shows over 4 GB of RAM free and 0 swap being used even with every client active on the server. Are you "oversold" or not? It all depends on theoretical events.

    "If" everyone managed to use 100% of that RAM at the same time then yes, you would probably have an issue. How often does this happen? Never. Not only are you using VPS as it's meant to be used, you have plenty of overhead for the occasional movie and software enthusiast or 16 yr old who wants to run a half dozen game bots for his gold farming operation.

    Now, double the number of clients to 60 or 80 - are you oversold now? Maybe, you're definitely getting into more dangerous territory.

    There's only one way to be sure - ask. Ask the host to show you the node graphs so you can see for yourself the CPU load, RAM, Swap, Bandwidth, etc on the host node. I'll gladly show my clients mine but I'm willing to bet there's quite a few hosts who wouldn't want to.

    I see clients try all kinds of tricks and performance measurement software from INSIDE the containers to try and figure out if the node is oversold or not and it's hilarious. They can get just about every possible measurement that way except the one they're looking for.

    As for Xen vs. Openvz - it depends on your host and the client to resource ratio of the hardware, period. All that remains is budgetary - are you willing to pay more not to have to worry as much? Pay more for Xen, then. Is your host willing to show you the proof they care about client performance? Save some money and go with Openvz. (The choice of OS and the rare need to swap out iso's are conditions which require one above the other at this time, of course).

  16. #16
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    With Xen you can't oversell the RAM, but you can still rape the CPU and drives.

    Main problem with OpenVZ are hosting providers that host loads of $5 VPS on OpenVZ Node. It makes OpenVZ look bad and slow. If your hosting provider can manage OpenVZ platform nicely(good hardware, no overselling, no $1-$5 VPS etc) you will be just fine.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SceneSRV View Post
    With Xen you can't oversell the RAM, but you can still rape the CPU and drives.

    Main problem with OpenVZ are hosting providers that host loads of $5 VPS on OpenVZ Node. It makes OpenVZ look bad and slow. If your hosting provider can manage OpenVZ platform nicely(good hardware, no overselling, no $1-$5 VPS etc) you will be just fine.
    There can't be too many of those, we've signed up quite a few 5.00 VPS clients and as I posted, I'll gladly post my node resource graphs. I've used VPS for projects for years and the difference I've seen is that there are hosts who fill up nodes with as many paying clients as possible, no matter how they abuse the system and allow shared resource clients to suffer poor performance in exchange for high volume.

    I don't mind clients who want a good deal but I expect them to choose a plan that fits their needs. I've found it's usually one or two clients who abuse the platform out of every 30-50 so for me it's an easy decision to ask those one or two clients to upgrade or leave rather than deal with 28-48 unhappy clients. We've had zero performance related complaints so it's more than possible to do value hosting on openvz without stuffing the server full of clients or limiting them all to 1992 RAM and CPU limits.

    I'm sure there's a large number of clients who can work with 256mb of RAM just fine but most of the ones coming our way expect and need more. I think a lot of people's expectations and common sense about the openvz VPS platform are going to change in the months to come and hopefully result in something better for the consumer. That's the beauty of free enterprise, every now and then someone comes along and shakes things up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SceneSRV View Post
    Main problem with OpenVZ are hosting providers that host loads of $5 VPS on OpenVZ Node. It makes OpenVZ look bad and slow. If your hosting provider can manage OpenVZ platform nicely(good hardware, no overselling, no $1-$5 VPS etc) you will be just fine.
    That is a stereotype, and hardly applies to every host out there. Under your assumption, I am sure any host you can't compete with is overselling their bandwidth, or resources. It reads of a competitor who simply can't compete and says such things trying to earn business or tarnish other companies.

    Some know how to work a budget market, and others do not. Simple as that.
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