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  1. #1
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    Question Windows 2008 on XEN HVM for $6.95 , can be legal ?

    Hi guys;
    I have found something which has puzzled my mind.
    Please look at following offers :
    https://clients.thrustvps.com/cart.php?gid=21
    they are offering windows 2008 VPS for about $7/mo on XEN HVM !
    how is it possible based on Microsoft SPLA rules ?
    the only solution is to offer such price is to create the VPS's on windows datacenter edition. but XEN works only on linux !
    are they pirating the licenses ? what do u think ?
    Regards

  2. #2
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    Sir, Xen lets you run Windows on top of Linux, so they can easily run Datacenter edition with it. This will not be illegal, they are a big company

    Hope this helps
    Cheeryo
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  3. #3
    My anti-virus caught malicious scripts from that site. Defiantly a scam.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    My anti-virus caught malicious scripts from that site. Defiantly a scam.
    Sorry I just have to lol at this comment...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscott04 View Post
    Sorry I just have to lol at this comment...
    Im lolling too

    One of the biggest VPS providers going - you might wanna look at some new antivirus
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    My anti-virus caught malicious scripts from that site. Defiantly a scam.
    LOL , i bet he's using a AntiVirus developed by Burstnet xD

  7. #7
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    If we go developing software... It's going to be anti-troll and anti-bs software.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    My anti-virus caught malicious scripts from that site. Defiantly a scam.
    You wouldn't happen to be using Avast, would you? They tend to produce false positives on well known reputable sites.
    Best Regards,
    Tim
    --
    Code monkey at EZP, see me on Stack Overflow

  9. #9
    __________

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    My anti-virus caught malicious scripts from that site. Defiantly a scam.
    What do you use AVG Free 0.5?
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  11. #11
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  12. #12
    Avira, and it's set on high sensitivity, which may cause false positives, but it also catches bad stuff other antivirus miss so it's OK. I'm happy airing on the side of caution. It was probably heuristic because they're doing something nasty.

    But really "thrust vps"?!? And their website looks it was done by a 12 year old. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurstNET_CSM View Post
    If we go developing software... It's going to be anti-troll and anti-bs software.
    Posts like this make me wish that WHT had a "like" option. I almost literally "lol"'d. Bravo.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    But really "thrust vps"?!? And their website looks it was done by a 12 year old. Not exactly confidence inspiring.
    I'm not endorsing them, but they've been around a while, their owner participates here, and I really like their site design. So many VPS companies have the same templates. I won't speak to their service, but their design stands out.

    Of course, bigbuttvps.com also stands out, but for different reasons...
    My advice and reviews of VPS providers based on my personal experience: VPSadvice.com

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDavies768 View Post
    Sir, Xen lets you run Windows on top of Linux, so they can easily run Datacenter edition with it. This will not be illegal, they are a big company

    Hope this helps
    Cheeryo
    Yes , I know that ! they can run windows datacenter edition as a guest on linux host, but how can it help regarding Microsoft licensing ?
    They are creating all windows nodes individually directly on linux , so they should pay for each license.
    please correct me if I am wrong.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    And their website looks it was done by a 12 year old.
    Show me this 12 year old that can make a site like 'thustvps.com' - I'll hire him!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    Yes , I know that ! they can run windows datacenter edition as a guest on linux host, but how can it help regarding Microsoft licensing ?
    They are creating all windows nodes individually directly on linux , so they should pay for each license.
    please correct me if I am wrong.
    Unlimited Virtualization Rights

    Windows Server 2008 R2 Datacenter licenses include unlimited virtualization rights, meaning customers have the use rights to run an unlimited number of virtualized instances of Windows Server on processors licensed with Windows Server 2008 R2 Datacenter without purchasing additional licenses. The use rights also allow the choice of running Windows Server 2008 R2 (or previous version) Standard, Enterprise, and Datacenter in the virtual instances.

    The unlimited virtualization rights significantly simplify the licensing of Windows Server for large-scale virtualization and make it more affordable for enterprises to consolidate on the Windows Server Platform.
    Ahh I love Google - XEN is a form of Virtualization....
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  18. #18
    wow, great discussion .... keep it up man..

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDavies768 View Post
    Ahh I love Google - XEN is a form of Virtualization....
    I know what XEN is , but XEN can not be installed on windows datacenter. it is a virtualization technology only for linux but supports windows guests.
    They have installed XEN on a linux server and are creating windows VPS's (guests) thats against Microsoft licensing.
    only if you create the VPS's on a windows datacenter edition then you have the unlimited virtualization right.
    not on XEN , not on Linux.
    any comments ? because I believe what they are doing is both illegal and unfair to hosting community.
    our company is paying thousands of dollars to Microsoft every month for licensing and many companies are doing so.
    I hope someone from thrustvps can clarify this issue.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    I know what XEN is , but XEN can not be installed on windows datacenter. it is a virtualization technology only for linux but supports windows guests.
    They have installed XEN on a linux server and are creating windows VPS's (guests) thats against Microsoft licensing.
    only if you create the VPS's on a windows datacenter edition then you have the unlimited virtualization right.
    not on XEN , not on Linux.
    any comments ? because I believe what they are doing is both illegal and unfair to hosting community.
    our company is paying thousands of dollars to Microsoft every month for licensing and many companies are doing so.
    I hope someone from thrustvps can clarify this issue.
    Hello dear, What is your company URL?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Question Everything View Post
    But really "thrust vps"?!? And their website looks it was done by a 12 year old. Not exactly confidence inspiring.
    Hang on, as far as designs go thats actually not bad in my opinion - precisely what is bad about it?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by cAPTAIN^k View Post
    Hang on, as far as designs go thats actually not bad in my opinion - precisely what is bad about it?
    I don't know why they are talking about all these.. i think its all thread about Advertisement stunt... nothing else..

  23. #23
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    Let me not to mention my company name and URL , I do not want visitors to think this is about advertisement although it is easy to find out if you search by yourself.
    as far as I can see , no one has any idea of what they are doing !
    there is no technical deployment which can comply with Microsoft SPLA with this scenario !
    I am sure everyone expect a fair play , at least from big players !

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    as far as I can see , no one has any idea of what they are doing !
    there is no technical deployment which can comply with Microsoft SPLA with this scenario !
    It sounds quite simple - you get a server, with datacenter edition - and sell VM's.

    After a quick search - this post addresses the licensing issues: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...0&postcount=30

  25. #25
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    As i remember this only applies to HyperV - NOT to Xen/KVM.

    Not sure though.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by EDIS View Post
    As i remember this only applies to HyperV - NOT to Xen/KVM.

    Not sure though.
    Disclaimer: Not an Expert.

    The issue was that with lessor licenses (e.g. Enterprise) one of your licenses is specifically for running the VM architecture - you lose that license. The VM licenses are unaffected.

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...3&postcount=32

  27. #27
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    Thank you NPSF3000 , in your referred link I found a very good point from turbovps :

    It took us 3 months to get it cleared with Microsoft and we dropped the idea of running XEN VM. This is the reply

    "If you are running Xen Virtualization and want to have OS on 10 VPS then you need to pay 10 windows licenses ( could be different version of windows "
    and this is what makes sense and this is our understanding from MS SPLA too. you only have the unlimited virtualization right only and only if you deploy the VPS's on a windows datacenter edition , no matter what virtualization technology you use like vmware , virtualbox , hyper-v and etc ...
    but here the problem is that the is no windows version of XEN, so they are deploying the VPS's on a linux server and NOT on a windows datacenter edition ! no MS middle-ware is involved. so it is against MS SPLA.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    ]
    and this is what makes sense and this is our understanding from MS SPLA too...
    Yep, and I understand this. But at this time I'd point to the companies actually doing it as proof that it can be done. How exactly I leave to your imaginations.

    -----

    Just to muddy the waters:

    http://www.google.com.au/search?sour...datacenter+xen

    I got:
    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...3-3de8896f2454

    Which has Microsoft staff saying yes.

  29. #29
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    I know it is possible to do it ! but it doesnt mean it is legal !

    This answer is just a misunderstanding and not answer to question.

    Q. Do the virtualization licensing rights of Windows Server 2008 apply when used with non-Microsoft software virtualization technologies?
    A. Yes. The use rights apply regardless of the virtualization product being used. However, any non-Microsoft software virtualization technologies are not supported by Microsoft.
    this QA talks about using non-Microsoft virtualization technologies. like vmware and virtualbox and others.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    I know it is possible to do it ! but it doesnt mean it is legal !

    This answer is just a misunderstanding and not answer to question.



    this QA talks about using non-Microsoft virtualization technologies. like vmware and virtualbox and others.
    How do you know? There are two interpretations, the employee may be correct.

    If it is illegal, why is Microsoft letting (apparently) large companies get away with it?

  31. #31
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    We think so because our contact with Microsoft licensing confirmed it is illegal. we wanted to do it too , but we dropped it.
    Regarding the answer of that MS employee , as you can see he has not answered directly and has copied and pasted some parts of MS FAQ. and it is clear that it is not answer to question.
    and why MS is letting large companies get away with it , we dont know ! this is our question too. may be MS lawyers are busy right now !
    who knows , may be tomorrow morning they get a law suit from MS.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    We think so because our contact with Microsoft licensing confirmed it is illegal. we wanted to do it too , but we dropped it.
    Then you where unlucky - I'd re-approach them with new evidence if I were you:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...4&postcount=14


    Insight and Microsoft came to the conclusion that those terms do encompass virtualization technologies where even the hardware node is not running Windows (XenSource/VMWare/XenServer/etc). This means that the licensing terms of 1 virtualized instance for Win Std, 4 for Win Ent, and Unlimited for Win DC do apply to Xen.

  33. #33
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    Interesting , so we can install linux and run XEN and pay a license fee to MS to get unlimited virtualization right for windows guests.

  34. #34
    Yep.

    The whole rationale that turbovps was using was that MS is pushing Hyper-V. Since it already allows other 3rd party virtualization, it seems silly to not allow XEN.

    Sounds like there has been confusion, but since your competitors seem to be allowed to do it I figure MS would be fairly silly to say no if you pushed for it.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiFtHeLeMeNt View Post
    Yes , I know that ! they can run windows datacenter edition as a guest on linux host, but how can it help regarding Microsoft licensing ?
    They are creating all windows nodes individually directly on linux , so they should pay for each license.
    please correct me if I am wrong.
    The point of Server 2008 Datacenter is that if a physical server is licensed for it, you can run as many guest OS's as you'd like that run Windows at no additional cost.
    Matthew Rosenblatt, and I do lots of things.
    Currently a Master Electrician on Broadway.
    My company, BurstAV, specializes in A/V Systems Design and integration.
    I also own ConcertCables. We build power/data cables for the entertainment industry.

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