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04-20-2011, 04:58 AM #1Newbie
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Do I need a dedicated server for an auction site?
Hello All,
I'm working with some friends on an auction site and wanted to get an idea on how much resources such a site might require?
Coding in java
Moderately optimized
Targeting 50.000 to 100.000 register users
Linux backend
Should I consider: (and what particular setup?)
1. Dedicated server
2. Cloud hosting
3. VPS
4. Shared
Any details or thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
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04-20-2011, 05:00 AM #2The Linux Specialist
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One thing that is good for dedicated server is you can later grow and if you need more power, you can just add another server for database, etc... to balance the load.
Depends on how much is your budget really.
Specially 4 U
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04-20-2011, 05:00 AM #3Web Hosting Master
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My advice to you is....
#2 and #3. All up to you. Depends on how well you know how to manage a server, then #3. If you want someone else to do it for you and you just pay them then #2. Cloud is good at Load Balancing. 50k to 100k registered users is not a lot. How many do you estimate being online at the same time?Aaron Ong
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04-20-2011, 05:10 AM #4Newbie
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I estimate maybe 20.000 users online at the same time bidding on the platform.
I was looking at the dedicated Intel Xeon 3210 (Quad Core) 4GB RAM 500GB HD package for $279
or
VPS CPU 1.98GHz 1.3GB RAM 59GB HD for $70
or
Cloud hosting 1GB RAM for $43
I don't have an idea on what resources are needed for the given target load?
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04-20-2011, 05:35 AM #5Web Hosting Master
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Are you using a DB to keep track of their bids and etc? What else is used?
Aaron Ong
Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
Servers in Central, East/West Coast USA, EUROPE and ASIA
Welltodo Century - www.welltodocentury.com
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04-20-2011, 06:36 AM #6Newbie
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Yes DB (mysql) tracking for bidding, listing, history, reputation, etc.
Similar to eBay I guess but at a smaller scale. This would include virtual stores, bidding algorithm, etc.
Appreciate the comments.
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04-20-2011, 06:44 AM #7Web Hosting Guru
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I can recommend a dedicated server if you have enough budget for that one. Still, you need to find out what specs you really need.
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04-20-2011, 06:53 AM #8Newbie
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Aside from the budget question, I'm trying to understand how much resources are needed to take on the targeted load.
If I need to give some more details let me know.
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04-20-2011, 07:44 AM #9Web Hosting Master
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As everyone has to start somewhere, i'd recommend a VPS. I imagine cron jobs needed would make a typical shared host kick you off.
Maybe 1GB RAM, 50gb disk space (store images, etc.), 200-400gb transfer would be a good start.
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04-20-2011, 08:12 AM #10Divided by Zero
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Isn't Java allocating all RAM it can get and doesn't this sometimes lead to problems with VPS systems using "Burst" RAM? I thought I read something about this here on the forums once...
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04-20-2011, 08:12 AM #11Disabled
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04-20-2011, 12:18 PM #12Newbie
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As always, I don't exactly recommend VPS's for these types of applications.
I have had my fair share of VPS's, and even though they were great at what they were designed to do, sometimes I would simply just receive ridiculous amounts of lag and so forth (It's on a server with other people, remember that) and that lag wouldn't go away for a while.
I recommend Dedicated Servers for a website like this, though truly I would recommend the service MediaTemple as your front end and a back end dedicated server using tomcat.
The way it would work is you would design your front end to run via PHP on the MediaTemple grid server, that way your users wouldn't see a front end down time when one would happen. After that, find a budget dedicated server and set that up to run your daemon in the background, have your PHP front end negotiate with your Java backend via HTTPS or some similar protocol, and you're set to go.
That way, if you happen to get down time, your entire site wouldn't go down, just your frontend/backend.
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04-20-2011, 03:24 PM #13Newbie
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Actually someone also recommended that I stay with 1 coding language; either java or php for the entire setup. He mentioned that using both languages will make debugging very difficult?
Any thoughts on how the math breaks down for bandwidth usage? (Assuming I go with a 500GB bandwidth deal per month). What is a typical auction page consumers? 500K, 1MB, more?
If 1MB then 30days x 20.000 users x 1MB = 600GB usage? Assuming each user downloads 1MB for each of the 30 days.
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04-20-2011, 04:17 PM #14Newbie
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Yes, using both languages is extremely difficult.
I recommend PHP all the way. Java simply isn't set up for web services, and php is extremely secure.
You can look at using cronjobs to running your php scripts to update bid listings, etc.
I would still recommend MediaTemple for this type of application, their service has been reliable and great.
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04-20-2011, 04:21 PM #15Junior Guru Wannabe
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Depending on the load, I would start thinking about upgrading to a dedicated server.
I'd start with a VPS and then upgrade later if needed.
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04-20-2011, 04:36 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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This isn't going to be a penny auction type of site right? Just a heads up, if it is, you are going to get shut down in the US.
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04-20-2011, 05:03 PM #17Web Hosting Guru
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A VPS server sounds like the place to start for my two cents. If you pick the right host you can grow the server as your site grows. I started with a small VPS for my baseball card case break forum site and it is running very smoothly and my host is taking care of me and server nicely. As site grows I add to server. At some point it will be smart to switch to a fully dedicated machine but why waste the money up front when you just need registered users to grow.
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04-20-2011, 05:18 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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I would also recommend using PHP instead of Java for the same reasons.
Also, you might want to consider using Percona server instead of MySql. It's generally faster and more stable.
Are you sure you're thinking of MediaTemple and not MediaLayer? MediaTemple has a reputation of being slow and unreliable. MediaLayer is the exact opposite, more on the lines of what you described.My personal blog -- rubiverse.net
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04-20-2011, 05:33 PM #19Newbie
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Flam:
I'm most definitely talking about MediaTemple, though there was a slight mishap with their DNS systems yesterday morning (Only lasted maybe 2 hours)
I've never had any major problems with them and I run some pretty traffic intensive sites on their servers.
Either way, I do NOT recommend VPS's or Dedicated Servers for any websites unless you know how to load balance and have the financial funding to add the amount of servers you need.
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04-20-2011, 09:05 PM #20WHT Addict
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@UMSN
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It always makes us happy when we see passionate customers.
Feel free to let us know if either of you have any questions for us.Media Temple Customer Support
Webhosting @ http://mediatemple.net
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04-20-2011, 09:17 PM #21Newbie
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Haha no problem Matt, I appreciate the service you guys provide.
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04-21-2011, 01:11 AM #22Newbie
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Everyone, Thanks for the suggestions.
Since my team is using java, I will have to commit to java for the entire site. Any particular problems this may cause short term and down the line? (not a penny auction).
As for my target load, I'm getting very confused answers as to what might work. VPS might be a good start but what does that mean? Good for 6 months for 20.000 before booted?
Thanks.
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04-21-2011, 01:42 PM #23Web Hosting Guru
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No VPS if using the right host is just a starting point. The server will grow as you grow. I am not sure a host would just boot you if you are growing. The doesnt make sense for them or you.
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04-26-2011, 01:32 AM #24Disabled
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Hi,
VPS is enough for starting small business, but if your website grows up then you can upgrade to dedicated servers. Since it is an auction site i guess you won't get traffic spike much. So go with VPS hosting itself.
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04-26-2011, 02:11 AM #25Web Hosting Master
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Is this a startup or you have been in the business for sometime? If it is a startup and you are assuming that type of traffic, then I would suggest starting with a VPS.
Do you know how to make transfers? If you have limited idea, then you could directly go with Cloud hosting as it is the easiest to scale.More than decade with webhosting!
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