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  1. #1
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    Using a VPS or dedicated for shared clients?

    I'm about to be maxed out on my reseller account (no overselling allowed), is it safe to transfer to a VPS or should I go with a dedicated server (budget is not too big of a concern as long as it's under 100 a month)? I have around 40ish clients each with between 1-10 domains. They don't take up over 50gb diskspace and no more than 100gb bandwidth. Sites are run on WordPress and Joomla, all recommendations are appreciated!

  2. #2
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    For $100/mo, you can get a pretty decent Virtual Server.
    For $100/mo, you can get a low speced dedicated server.

    Which would I choose with that same situation and budget?

    The virtual server, and here is why:

    A.) For that budget, you can get a good quality VPS from a provider that uses quality hardware.

    B.) A virtual server in that price range is likely to be deployed on a node utilizing RAID10 storage, something that (I believe), is a MUST for the industry and you'll be unable to find a dedicated server with RAID10 for $100 (and if you do, I still wouldn't go with it because it sounds too cheap).

    C.) Licensing software on a VPS is usually much cheaper than the same software on a dedicated server.

    D.) Etc



    While I understand the appeal of a dedicated server, your budget isn't really high enough to obtain one that I would deem worthy as a production server for a host. With your budget, I have no doubt you'll find a quality VPS provider who can offer you a quality virtual server, with around 1GB of RAM+ and plenty of storage for your clients.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vazapi-Curtis View Post
    For $100/mo, you can get a pretty decent Virtual Server.
    For $100/mo, you can get a low speced dedicated server.

    Which would I choose with that same situation and budget?

    The virtual server, and here is why:

    A.) For that budget, you can get a good quality VPS from a provider that uses quality hardware.

    B.) A virtual server in that price range is likely to be deployed on a node utilizing RAID10 storage, something that (I believe), is a MUST for the industry and you'll be unable to find a dedicated server with RAID10 for $100 (and if you do, I still wouldn't go with it because it sounds too cheap).

    C.) Licensing software on a VPS is usually much cheaper than the same software on a dedicated server.

    D.) Etc



    While I understand the appeal of a dedicated server, your budget isn't really high enough to obtain one that I would deem worthy as a production server for a host. With your budget, I have no doubt you'll find a quality VPS provider who can offer you a quality virtual server, with around 1GB of RAM+ and plenty of storage for your clients.
    So you think a VPS is stable enough? That's my only concern to be honest. Are there any other precautions I should consider with a VPS?

    EDIT: here is one I'm looking at from Knownhost...

    Raid 10 diskspace: 60gb
    Bandwidth: 2500 gb
    Cpanel/WHM
    2 IPs
    RVsitebuilder
    RVskin
    WHMCS

    all this for $56.70, then I would add litespeed, softcalous, clam AV, Rsync backups, and a few other things... sounds alot better then my current pricing.
    Last edited by DBTV; 04-03-2011 at 05:09 PM.

  4. #4
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    I would look for a low end dedicated server. Just be sure to get something based on new/newer hardware. For example an Athlon II X2(X4) or a 6000 series Pentium Dual Core make good dedicated servers that are light-years faster than Pentium Ds or Athlon 64s.

    With the limited HDD space you're currently using, a server with a dedicated backup HDD should be sufficient to safe guard your data along with remote backups. It's important to note that RAID 10 (or any other RAID configuration) is not a cure all to data loss and can even be a negative. Especially if a provider relies on only RAID for data backup.

    You may need to boost you're budget ($120 - $130 ish maybe) to get cPanel licensing, server management (PSM is a great budget option), etc. But a dedicated will be better for you in the long run.
    Last edited by DWS2006; 04-03-2011 at 05:12 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    So you think a VPS is stable enough? That's my only concern to be honest. Are there any other precautions I should consider with a VPS?
    A VPS *can* be stable enough. With your budget, you should be able to find a host that is both stable and reliable.

    I've heard great things about ioflood.com, they have very nice looking VPS plans in my opinion, and Gabe the owner is a very nice guy and he'll answer any questions you have in detail.

    Wiredtree and Liquidweb are other companies that come to mind when thinking of high-end Virtual Servers, with no personal experience with any of these companies I am basing this purely on what I have read about them from other customers.

    Of course, you could also find a good Cloud based VPS for that price range too. This would help with the reliability issues, and I can personally recommend CloudWeb. Jason over there is a very knowledgeable guy and could help you out as well.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vazapi-Curtis View Post
    A VPS *can* be stable enough. With your budget, you should be able to find a host that is both stable and reliable.

    I've heard great things about ioflood.com, they have very nice looking VPS plans in my opinion, and Gabe the owner is a very nice guy and he'll answer any questions you have in detail.

    Wiredtree and Liquidweb are other companies that come to mind when thinking of high-end Virtual Servers, with no personal experience with any of these companies I am basing this purely on what I have read about them from other customers.

    Of course, you could also find a good Cloud based VPS for that price range too. This would help with the reliability issues, and I can personally recommend CloudWeb. Jason over there is a very knowledgeable guy and could help you out as well.
    What do you think about this plan from Knownhost:
    Raid 10 diskspace: 60gb
    Bandwidth: 2500 gb
    Cpanel/WHM
    2 IPs
    RVsitebuilder
    RVskin
    WHMCS

    all this for $56.70, then I would add litespeed, softcalous, clam AV, Rsync backups, and a few other things... sounds alot better then my current pricing.

    Also, what are the things to consider for maximizing the stability of the VPS and reduce the "can" aspect?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vazapi-Curtis View Post
    A VPS *can* be stable enough. With your budget, you should be able to find a host that is both stable and reliable.

    I've heard great things about ioflood.com, they have very nice looking VPS plans in my opinion, and Gabe the owner is a very nice guy and he'll answer any questions you have in detail.

    Wiredtree and Liquidweb are other companies that come to mind when thinking of high-end Virtual Servers, with no personal experience with any of these companies I am basing this purely on what I have read about them from other customers.

    Of course, you could also find a good Cloud based VPS for that price range too. This would help with the reliability issues, and I can personally recommend CloudWeb. Jason over there is a very knowledgeable guy and could help you out as well.
    Thanks for all the kind words, it's much appreciated.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    all this for $56.70, then I would add litespeed, softcalous, clam AV, Rsync backups, and a few other things... sounds alot better then my current pricing.
    VPS is your only option if you need all those extras as well. A dedi will exceed your budget.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    What do you think about this plan from Knownhost:
    Raid 10 diskspace: 60gb
    Bandwidth: 2500 gb
    Cpanel/WHM
    2 IPs
    RVsitebuilder
    RVskin
    WHMCS

    all this for $56.70, then I would add litespeed, softcalous, clam AV, Rsync backups, and a few other things... sounds alot better then my current pricing.

    Also, what are the things to consider for maximizing the stability of the VPS and reduce the "can" aspect?
    How much RAM? All in all, it seems like pretty good bang for the buck. You'd have to do some digging around on WHT to find some reviews for that company, as I really don't recall reading too much on them. (Brand sounds familiar, but thats about it.)

    Don't forget about WHMCS licensing, as I assume that was included with your reseller account.

    You're on the right track .
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vazapi-Curtis View Post
    How much RAM? All in all, it seems like pretty good bang for the buck. You'd have to do some digging around on WHT to find some reviews for that company, as I really don't recall reading too much on them. (Brand sounds familiar, but thats about it.)

    Don't forget about WHMCS licensing, as I assume that was included with your reseller account.

    You're on the right track .
    Yes that price includes the WHMCS license. 1024 MB ram, is that decent enough? I believe I may be able to upgrade that as well.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    Yes that price includes the WHMCS license. 1024 MB ram, is that decent enough? I believe I may be able to upgrade that as well.
    D'oh. Yeah, I must of glanced over that.

    Like I said, I can't comment on the reliability of Knownhost because I have read very little about them. But if you find that their reviews are positive, i'd say go for it. Its certainly a good price for the features included, and as far as performance goes you should be set considering you moved from a reseller plan.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    Yes that price includes the WHMCS license. 1024 MB ram, is that decent enough? I believe I may be able to upgrade that as well.
    This is a good question. Since you are moving from shared hosting to a VPS you are going to have to make a guess as to how much RAM you need. There is no way for us to tell you. Maybe you should not take the risk and go with a larger reseller plan instead?

  13. #13
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    It all depends if your clients with 1-10 websites each are using a lot of CPU - if they have sites that are always "doing stuff" then a basic VPS will struggle with them. You would probably need a better CPU on the VPS and at least 2 GB of ram if you had, say 200 websites.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSD-Dan View Post
    It all depends if your clients with 1-10 websites each are using a lot of CPU - if they have sites that are always "doing stuff" then a basic VPS will struggle with them. You would probably need a better CPU on the VPS and at least 2 GB of ram if you had, say 200 websites.
    This is what it currently looks like:
    Server load 1.27 (36 CPUs)
    Memory Used 17.90% (2210912 of 12350996)
    Swap Used 3.52% (73812 of 2096444)

    Does it look like the specs of the VPS above could support that?

  15. #15
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    If the server you are on at the moment has 36 cores, it's a pretty decent server and it will have many more sites than yours. You can't tell if the VPS will run your sites unless you can get access to Apache logs - which you can only do as a root user.

    I would suggest enquiring about the CPU level available on the VPS, and letting us know what it is. By all means go with 1GB ram as you can always upgrade that - probably instantly.
    Last edited by TH-Dan; 04-03-2011 at 06:52 PM. Reason: tired and not making sense :D
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSD-Dan View Post
    If the server you are on at the moment has 36 cores, it's a pretty decent server and it will have many more sites than yours. You can't tell if the VPS will run your sites unless you can get access to Apache logs - which you can only do as a root user.

    I would suggest enquiring about the CPU level available on the VPS, and letting us know what it is. By all means go with 1GB ram as you can always upgrade that - probably instantly.
    Ok, so from the looks of those numbers above, does it look like the Knownhost VPS I'm looking at can handle them?

  17. #17
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    It would be a close call. Like I said if you get the CPU specs you will get a better picture
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSD-Dan View Post
    It would be a close call. Like I said if you get the CPU specs you will get a better picture
    Ok, contacted knownhost... now just waiting on a reply back as far as the CPU inquiry is concerned.

  19. #19
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    You won't really know how your sites will run until they are actually being served on the VPS. A lot of users who reach the end of the upgrade path on reseller hosting find VPS systems to be too weak. VPS "can be" a step down from shared and reseller hosting services performance wise, but with greater environmental control. That's not to say that there are not good uses for VPS servers, or high quality VPS providers.

    If you can't afford a dedicated server within your budget, A hybrid VPS could be the next best option.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSD-Dan View Post
    It would be a close call. Like I said if you get the CPU specs you will get a better picture
    here is knownhosts reponse:

    With our VPS's you get Equal Share CPU of a Dual CPU Quad Core Server which means you share the CPU equally with the rest of the VPS's on the same server. The nice thing is we don't limit the CPU usage so you can burst for periods of time with no problems. The only limit we have (soft) is we monitor the CPU usage and if we notice your using over 25% of the entire servers CPU for over 90 seconds frequently we will contact you to try to resolve it. Rarely does this occur but it can time to time. So if you upgrade to a larger VPS the CPU remains the same. Hope this helps.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiberLightning View Post
    You won't really know how your sites will run until they are actually being served on the VPS. A lot of users who reach the end of the upgrade path on reseller hosting find VPS systems to be too weak. VPS "can be" a step down from shared and reseller hosting services performance wise, but with greater environmental control. That's not to say that there are not good uses for VPS servers, or high quality VPS providers.

    If you can't afford a dedicated server within your budget, A hybrid VPS could be the next best option.
    Well ours is a bit tricky because we're not at the end of it due to actual client diskspace/bandwidth usage, but at the end of it because our package size total allotment. HG doesn't allow overselling. In actuality our diskspace usage is at most 50gb, and 100gb bandwidth.

  22. #22
    A VPS can easily handle the strain from hosting as long as you just have the basic PHP/MySQL setup. I recently moved to a dedicated server because my budget allowed it and I needed a lot more space, but before that I loved the VPS.

  23. #23
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    There is always the option of using a XEN based provider who can offer dedicated CPU cores to your virtual server. One of the reasons I recommended ioflood was because of this.

    Of course, many others can too. Just contact the provider beforehand, (which is always a good thing to do anyhow before making a switch. ALWAYS test the support, test their knowledge and response times) and let them know your concerns.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monotoko View Post
    A VPS can easily handle the strain from hosting as long as you just have the basic PHP/MySQL setup. I recently moved to a dedicated server because my budget allowed it and I needed a lot more space, but before that I loved the VPS.
    What size VPS were you on? Who were you hosted with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vazapi-Curtis View Post
    There is always the option of using a XEN based provider who can offer dedicated CPU cores to your virtual server. One of the reasons I recommended ioflood was because of this.

    Of course, many others can too. Just contact the provider beforehand, (which is always a good thing to do anyhow before making a switch. ALWAYS test the support, test their knowledge and response times) and let them know your concerns.
    Yes, I looked at IOflood and am still definitely considering them. I agree on the testing support aspect as well.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    This is what it currently looks like:
    Server load 1.27 (36 CPUs)
    Memory Used 17.90% (2210912 of 12350996)
    Swap Used 3.52% (73812 of 2096444)

    Does it look like the specs of the VPS above could support that?
    If that's the information cpanel is giving you regarding your current shared host, that information is almost useless. First off, the memory usage statistics are basically worthless. I have no idea why they're so totally off, but if you had shell access and ran "free -m" (you might be able to do this from php), you'll see a totally different picture of memory use.

    Secondly, the "36 cpus" doesn't have to reflect the actual number of cores, as in cpanel they can configure it to not show cpu overload unless load goes over a particular value. In this case, they've chosen 36. By default, this value will equal the number of cores, but if you change the overload value to a higher setting, it'll erroneously report that as the number of cores in the system. If it were your own server, doing "cat /proc/cpuinfo" would give you a better idea here. Again, that command *might* be runnable from php depending on the security of the system.

    Finally, you have no idea how many other people are sharing that server. If there are 100 reseller hosting accounts on that server (probably not, but possible), all with the same usage level as you, then it's a fair bet that your account will fit easily on a small VPS. If there's only 4 reseller hosting accounts your size sharing that server, then I would think a typical VPS might be a bit of a stretch. Unfortunately, with the information available to you, it's not easy to know which is the case.
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  26. #26
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    You might want to ask the companies you are interested in and see if they will give you a test account on the server you would be on.. Some will give you a test server for a few days.. Then you will be able to test actual speed of the VPS.

  27. #27
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    Since budget is a decent concern, I will cast a vote here for a VPS + cPanel + UNIXy Varnish (lots cheaper than litespeed, just as fast or faster, and will save you TONs of RAM).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentpresley View Post
    Since budget is a decent concern, I will cast a vote here for a VPS + cPanel + UNIXy Varnish (lots cheaper than litespeed, just as fast or faster, and will save you TONs of RAM).
    I was going to do litespeed, but after looking at that I'll for sure be using Varnish on whatever I decide to go with... that looks great!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBTV View Post
    I was going to do litespeed, but after looking at that I'll for sure be using Varnish on whatever I decide to go with... that looks great!

    Also take a look at Nginx... Works very good.. I use the one over at http://nginxcp.com/

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentpresley View Post
    Since budget is a decent concern, I will cast a vote here for a VPS + cPanel + UNIXy Varnish (lots cheaper than litespeed, just as fast or faster, and will save you TONs of RAM).
    You stole my idea. Yea I'd highly suggest you use Varnish with cPanel. As for Dedicated VS VPS I'd personally go with a VPS just because it is a lot less work then a dedicated server and if you get a managed one it will be in your range.

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    +1 for Xen VPS. And cPanel is cheaper too!

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