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  1. #1
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    Why is it so hard?

    Heya,

    Why is it so hard to find a PHP programmer? I'm serious I need work done, and all these programming sites are horrible. Why is it so flipping hard? I need to learn PHP on my own, and I have tried but I just don't understand it, and all these programming books it seems have copied each others examples.

  2. #2
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    What kind of work do you need done?

    I may be able to contact a few people that have paid for programmers in the past and find out how it worked out for them.

    Generally though, there are tons of open source scripts online that can do just about anything you can think of that you can use and or borrow code from.

  3. #3
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    I can do wonders with PHP, have experience for over 10 years and got scammed by people worldwide.

    Sorry for the rant <<snipped>>.
    Last edited by bear; 04-02-2011 at 06:59 AM.
    Member Since 2003.

  4. #4
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    It's easy. Just search in the right places (Hint: WHT employment forums) and you're sure to find one.

    Just have a realistic budget in mind and be sure and contact former clients before engaging anyone.

    And a contract never hurts either.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bluemer View Post
    Heya,
    ..and I have tried but I just don't understand it..
    PHP Code:
    <?php

    if($early_attempts == "No Success") {
    echo 
    "Persist until you make real progress";
    }

    echo 
    "You are now on the path to success!";

    ?>
    ^^^
    Which line of "code" is hard to understand?

    • Start with simple examples and soon you will be surprised at what you can do.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemer View Post
    Heya,

    Why is it so hard to find a PHP programmer? I'm serious I need work done, and all these programming sites are horrible. Why is it so flipping hard? I need to learn PHP on my own, and I have tried but I just don't understand it, and all these programming books it seems have copied each others examples.
    Your right php is not a pick up and run language and it can be very indepth if you step into OOP. Simple php can be picked up pretty easily without much knowledge of server-side programming, but php is a very deep and powerful language that can in my experience do almost anything you want it to, if you have the know-how. Going to your original question, I think its probably because programming in general is a time consuming process, with creating, securing, testing and debugging all part of a programmers regime and obviously time=money and people just can't afford or don't want to pay the prices that good programmers charge. dependant on the requirements you have and the budget you have to spend on it will factor in how easily you will find a good programmer.
    Good Luck!
    I H4t3 l33T, l33T i5 4 l053r5!
    ██
    ███
    ████ Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver01 View Post
    Your right php is not a pick up and run language and it can be very indepth if you step into OOP. Simple php can be picked up pretty easily without much knowledge of server-side programming, but php is a very deep and powerful language that can in my experience do almost anything you want it to, if you have the know-how. Going to your original question, I think its probably because programming in general is a time consuming process, with creating, securing, testing and debugging all part of a programmers regime and obviously time=money and people just can't afford or don't want to pay the prices that good programmers charge. dependant on the requirements you have and the budget you have to spend on it will factor in how easily you will find a good programmer.
    Good Luck!
    I agreed and you have basically spot on on all considerable factor. Based on OP, its not the problem of not finding a good programmer, its just that his budget basically is wanting the whole world for a dollar.
    Member Since 2003.

  8. #8
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    PHP is great to learn in conjunction with SQL, Javascript (Ajax), HTML and CSS.
    W3schools has awesome tutorials to get you started with all these languages : http://www.w3schools.com/

    Though, if you're new to programming, there's nothing like taking classes at your local college/university.

  9. #9
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    Have you tried Elance or Guru ?

  10. #10
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    Possible reasons are:
    1. You have not been very lucky with programmers
    2. You are paying really little money and attract the wrong guys

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by anlene View Post
    I agreed and you have basically spot on on all considerable factor. Based on OP, its not the problem of not finding a good programmer, its just that his budget basically is wanting the whole world for a dollar.
    How do you know? Do you know his budget? Maybe he hasn't looked in the right places.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Bacon View Post
    How do you know? Do you know his budget? Maybe he hasn't looked in the right places.
    I'm not the person you quoted, but I know, and he was right. The budget for the project is completely unrealistic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by anlene View Post
    I agreed and you have basically spot on on all considerable factor. Based on OP, its not the problem of not finding a good programmer, its just that his budget basically is wanting the whole world for a dollar.

    I was going to just not reply to your PM about wanting $600.00 to do the job I wanted. However, now that your taking it as that I will explain what I want/needed and see what price others would think aswell. Since the concept of the code, and basically what needs to happen is there I wouldn't think it would take very long to rewrite the code, but simple/more effective/optimized/seo.. I advised I was wanting to pay $100.00-$300.00 to have this done. The script has no backend, or anything extra, just what you see. I have plans to add more, but once the code is simple first.


    http://www.uploadallowed.com - Is basically a free image hosting script called Chevereto. The guy who created it, or had it coded gives it away for free(http://www.chevereto.com) I don't know him, or anything, but he has some weird license on it that he retains copyright of the original code, and regardless of whether you modify the code, or not he retains copyright owner due to the license he has put on it. Also, the code is in some foreign language, and is all mixed up, and it looks like a real mess in the code with CSS, HTML, and PHP all mixed up. I created the graphics for the logo, and tabs and have the PSD's for both. I simply wanted the script recoded with optimized code in a simple, but concise quick way with good comments. The ultimate goal is to recode the script so I then own the copyright, aswell as have the ability to understand what exactly is happening from top to bottom and not have the code strung between 3-4 files in a foreign language. I still need this done.

  14. #14
    Ah Ok. You guys are talking about a different thread or a private message. I see now.

  15. #15
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    Try freelancer.com you will find many guys to do it under $100.

  16. #16
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    A realistic budget is very important. A good PHP programmer can easily be $50+/hour. Some guys I know charge upwards of $180/hour.
    Scott Burns, President
    BQ Internet Corporation
    Remote Rsync and FTP backup solutions
    *** http://www.bqbackup.com/ ***

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemer View Post
    I was going to just not reply to your PM about wanting $600.00 to do the job I wanted. However, now that your taking it as that I will explain what I want/needed and see what price others would think aswell. Since the concept of the code, and basically what needs to happen is there I wouldn't think it would take very long to rewrite the code, but simple/more effective/optimized/seo.. I advised I was wanting to pay $100.00-$300.00 to have this done. The script has no backend, or anything extra, just what you see. I have plans to add more, but once the code is simple first.

    Well that's your problem. Like someone else mentioned, programmers, like myself, charge upwards of $30/hour. So unless this little script you want written is going to take me 3 or 4 hours to do, I wouldn't even waste my breath contacting you about it.

    I typically don't touch anything under a $2,000 budget.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encrypted View Post
    Well that's your problem. Like someone else mentioned, programmers, like myself, charge upwards of $30/hour. So unless this little script you want written is going to take me 3 or 4 hours to do, I wouldn't even waste my breath contacting you about it.

    I typically don't touch anything under a $2,000 budget.

    The script NOW is 2,188 code lines long(using Notepad++). 9 different pages, with everything being replicated in 6 different languages.

    The code is basically mixed up, and probably could fit within 1-4 code files(including 2 for jquery) . It could actually probably be written in 1,000 lines of code with only english being in place, and no error checking like(ex. *** file has wrong permissions etc..).

  19. #19
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    You may want to post up the files so we may have a better idea of the job that has to be done.
    $100 to $300 sounds fairly realistic, to me (where $100 would be to simplify/re-comment/validate/etc the existing code and $300 to rewrite it from scratch).

    Edit : is 2.188 lines including sliding effect's framework file(s) (e.g. MooTools, script.aculo.us (Prototype) frameworks)?
    Last edited by WootWoot; 04-03-2011 at 07:21 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemer View Post
    http://www.uploadallowed.com - Is basically a free image hosting script called Chevereto. The guy who created it, or had it coded gives it away for free(http://www.chevereto.com) I don't know him, or anything, but he has some weird license on it that he retains copyright of the original code, and regardless of whether you modify the code, or not he retains copyright owner due to the license he has put on it. Also, the code is in some foreign language, and is all mixed up, and it looks like a real mess in the code with CSS, HTML, and PHP all mixed up. I created the graphics for the logo, and tabs and have the PSD's for both. I simply wanted the script recoded with optimized code in a simple, but concise quick way with good comments. The ultimate goal is to recode the script so I then own the copyright, aswell as have the ability to understand what exactly is happening from top to bottom and not have the code strung between 3-4 files in a foreign language. I still need this done.
    I haven't looked at the script or its license terms but from your description I'd suggest that:
    1. Many / most decent PHP programmers would charge a lot more than what you're offering for this. Having some kind of rats-nest PHP script as a starting point is not necessarily an advantage...
    2. Re-coding in the way you suggest would not generally mean you own the copyright to the new version. To achieve this you'd really need to rewrite it from scratch, based only on the functional specification of the existing program. See, for example, this article on clean-room programming.
    Chris

    "Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them." - Laurence J. Peter

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobic View Post
    I haven't looked at the script or its license terms but from your description I'd suggest that:
    1. Many / most decent PHP programmers would charge a lot more than what you're offering for this. Having some kind of rats-nest PHP script as a starting point is not necessarily an advantage...
    2. Re-coding in the way you suggest would not generally mean you own the copyright to the new version. To achieve this you'd really need to rewrite it from scratch, based only on the functional specification of the existing program. See, for example, this article on clean-room programming.
    Very interesting link! Thanks for posting it!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by foobic View Post
    ...Having some kind of rats-nest PHP script as a starting point is not necessarily an advantage...
    I have to totally agree with this. It's nice to see the script someone is using to get a better idea of what you want, but often times its much easier to start from scratch than trying to go from someone else's code. I've been in nightmare projects that after about a third of the way through you just scrap it and start from scratch.

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