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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Steadfast Remote Hands Services - Tell me what you think...

    I am a colocation client at Steadfast Networks (www.steadfast.net) and I will be canceling my colocation services and have my 9 servers packed and shipped out. All my servers with the exception of 2 are 1U servers. They are telling me it will cost me $40 for half an hour of remote hands to de-rack one server. For 9 servers, that is 9 * $40 = $360 and 4 hours and 30 minutes of labor. They made it clear that this is not negotiable. On top of this, they say it will cost me $35 per server for shipping. That's another 9 * $35 = $315 in shipping costs. That's $675 so far, and it doesn't stop there. Two of the servers are 4U units, and they are telling me I will need to supply the packaging for them, which would cost me another $50, totaling $725.

    What do you think about this? Does $725 sound outrageous to simply de-rack, package, and ship out 9 servers?
    Last edited by Acozilla; 04-01-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    47
    That doesn't sound right. I recently moved much of my business to the cloud and had to remove my three servers. They didn't charge me anything to derack them. I live in the area so I just picked them up.

    I was with them for years and those guys there are awesome. Have you tried calling them?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Oh it's right, and I will be posting the screenshots of the ticket updates as it progresses.

    I do not live in the area so I am forced to deal with their remote hands.

    I too was a customer with a 1-2gbps commitment for almost 2 years.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2006
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    Chicago
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    I can understand the shipping costs and the additional packaging costs for the 4U boxes, but the remote hands to derack doesn't seem fair.

  5. #5
    I have to disagree. They are basically charging you $80 per hour for remote hands support, which is an extremely fair price. Their time estimates may be a little high as I would think 9 servers could be deracked in around 3 hours. But since the hourly charge is low compared to $125 or higher of most reputable facilities, the net cost comes out around the same.

    The shipping costs are also extremely reasonable. I don't know how far the shipment is traveling, but $35 may not even cover their actual costs if the package is going to sat CA/AZ, etc. If it is shipping to a residential address in one of those locations, the $35 per server price is almost surely not going to cover their actual expense. It will admittedly be within a few $, but the point is that the charge is fair.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2011
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    Correction, it would cost me 2x $50 (+shipping) to order the supplies they have specified to package the 4U units. This makes the total cost around $780-800 to de-rack, package, and ship 9 servers.

    I'd like everyone to keep that in mind if you ever consider colocation at Steadfast. It was cheap and easy to get in, but expensive and hard to get out, and we're just talking about 9 servers...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Dallas, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acozilla View Post
    Correction, it would cost me 2x $50 (+shipping) to order the supplies they have specified to package the 4U units. This makes the total cost around $780-800 to de-rack, package, and ship 9 servers.

    I'd like everyone to keep that in mind if you ever consider colocation at Steadfast. It was cheap and easy to get in, but expensive and hard to get out.
    Supplies aren't cheap and nor is shipping.

  8. #8
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Wall View Post
    Supplies aren't cheap and nor is shipping.
    According to the Steadfast staff, they will be using the left over packaging for my 1U servers. It's not like they are buying the packaging supplies.

    The shipping cost is relatively fair as I calculated the cost myself through UPS and it was about $28 per box ($7 less).

  9. #9
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    Aug 2010
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    Berkshire, UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colomondo View Post
    I have to disagree. They are basically charging you $80 per hour for remote hands support, which is an extremely fair price. Their time estimates may be a little high as I would think 9 servers could be deracked in around 3 hours. But since the hourly charge is low compared to $125 or higher of most reputable facilities, the net cost comes out around the same.
    Im sorry but are you saying charging a long standing customer money to remove their equipment from the racks @ $80/hour is fair?!. Also 9 servers taking 3 hours?! When i moved some equipment (10 servers) to different racks it took me no longer than 30mins to shut down hardware disconnect cables and take the servers out! 2 hours for the whole move.

    Surely the price of removing the equipment is included in the long standing colocation contract. Thats as good as charging a webhosting customer a leaving fee when they leave.

    Shipping/Packing of course is chargable, but to charge to remove the equipment is mad as i presume even if the customer wanted to they wouldnt be allowed to remove it on their own.

    If i was the customer i would be checking terms and conditions very carefully to see if they state they will charge to remove equipment ontop of the monthly fee the customer has paid for how ever long.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    I feel it's appropriate to put some things in perspective...

    Most of the time spent for outbound shipments is preparing and packing the servers, with unracking being a relatively speedy process by comparison. If someone picks up servers and skips requiring us to prepare them, the time cost is usually much lower. 4U servers in particular may require multiple people to move and extra time to unrack as well. In the end though, the numbers provided are estimates. The actual used time will be the amount billed for.

    Shipping costs are based on courtesy rate quotes (from FedEx, not UPS) which take into account weight and size of packages. In particular, 4U servers are likely to be four times the cost of the 1U servers, possibly more due to the disproportionate number of additional drives. The cost is higher if you ask the packages to be delivered to a residential address and we won't know the exact cost until FedEx actually processes the package. This number is sometimes higher, sometimes lower, but usually close. If you have a FedEx account and want us to use it, we'll gladly do so and have the shipping charges billed directly. This avoids any possibility that we might over or undercharge you for shipping.

    You can always save money by coming to the facility and unracking and/or carrying out equipment personally. Beyond that, we're providing a service that costs us money, and I don't see it as unreasonable to charge for it.
    Kevin Stange - Steadfast Networks
    kevin @ steadfast.net - http://steadfast.net

  11. #11
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    Feb 2005
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    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-Rackedeu View Post
    Im sorry but are you saying charging a long standing customer money to remove their equipment from the racks @ $80/hour is fair?!. Also 9 servers taking 3 hours?! When i moved some equipment (10 servers) to different racks it took me no longer than 30mins to shut down hardware disconnect cables and take the servers out! 2 hours for the whole move.
    3 hours would be a high estimate to prepare the customer for that possibility. If it takes less time, we bill less time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-Rackedeu View Post
    Surely the price of removing the equipment is included in the long standing colocation contract. Thats as good as charging a webhosting customer a leaving fee when they leave.
    Contract? Most of our services do not involve contracts unless the customer would like one.

    It's really nothing like charging a web hosting customer for leaving because there's pretty much no labor involved in clicking a couple buttons in a web interface and there's nothing to pack up or ship to conclude the business relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-Rackedeu View Post
    Shipping/Packing of course is chargable, but to charge to remove the equipment is mad as i presume even if the customer wanted to they wouldnt be allowed to remove it on their own.
    A customer is welcome to come in and remove his own equipment, assuming his account is in good standing, to arrange for someone else to pick up equipment, or to arrange for alternative shipping (FedEx account number, a prepared set of labels, etc). We charge only for the services we are asked to provide in assisting the customer in leaving.
    Last edited by KStange; 04-01-2011 at 10:53 PM.
    Kevin Stange - Steadfast Networks
    kevin @ steadfast.net - http://steadfast.net

  12. #12
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    Mar 2011
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    Like I said earlier, I find your shipping prices to be fair. Nothing wrong here. The topic is mainly about the remote hand fees and to gather some input from others. It is not a complaint. All I wish to know is if 4.5 hours is normal, or a 'industry-standard', to de-rack and package 9 servers (2 of them being 4Us). To me, $770-800 sounds outrageous to ship out 9 servers, but that's my opinion, which really doesn't matter. It is what it is.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acozilla View Post
    What do you think about this? Does $725 sound outrageous to simply de-rack, package, and ship out 9 servers?
    Not at all. $35 per server for shipping sounds about right. You can't blame them for the cost of shipping, nor can you blame them for the cost of the packaging for the 4U servers. Charging you $40 of tech time per server to unrack and box the server is absolutely reasonable. Be glad that you're not at a carrier neutral data center, where it would cost you a lot more than that.
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  14. #14
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    that price is not super cheap but its not that high either for the amount of work that needs to be done.


    you can always find someone else to do the work if you think you can find it done cheaper.

  15. #15
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    Feb 2005
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    Chicago, IL
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    We generally bill individual actions as full 30 minute periods if they are isolated, so if you request each server to be unracked and shipped separately at different times, you might reach the 4 hours and 30 minutes. I would agree that unracking all servers together would usually not take one half hour each. It's more likely that the process would take a few hours total, provided there are no problems and the 4U systems are able to be handled quickly. I would say if there's anything that would slow things down, it would be getting a 4U system down safely and then packing it securely.

    You shouldn't need to fear that you'll be billed for more time than it actually takes to complete the work or that our staff does anything at a slow enough pace that it will artificially inflate the time required to complete the task.
    Last edited by KStange; 04-01-2011 at 11:17 PM.
    Kevin Stange - Steadfast Networks
    kevin @ steadfast.net - http://steadfast.net

  16. #16
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acozilla View Post
    What do you think about this? Does $725 sound outrageous to simply de-rack, package, and ship out 9 servers?
    Seems fair. I assume they are taking the time to ensure your server is well packaged.

    If you can't pickup your equipment in person, you should ask your colo provider how much it would cost to ship your server back before you colo with them.

  17. #17
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    Ohio
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    One idea is just getting a airplane ticket, or greyhound ticket there... Go there derack servers etc.. go to UPS Store, Fedex Store, USPS and just ship them back home...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acozilla View Post
    To me, $770-800 sounds outrageous to ship out 9 servers, but that's my opinion, which really doesn't matter. It is what it is.
    Yes, but if you look at it, it is 9 servers and for me, it is fair price.

    Not cheap though but ok.

    Getting away is not that easy you know :-)

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  19. #19
    I am glad I am not the only one who thought the charges were fair :-). After the first few posts, I was beginning to think we were out of line to charge similiar rates.

  20. #20
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    If it makes you feel any better, some DC's charge $150/hr and that doesn't include packaging and shipping. I think you may have lucked out lol.
    www.opticip.com - Optic IP LLC

  21. #21
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    SteadFast guys have been fairly co-operative and I believe the charge is pretty nominal - it kinda hurts when you are not prepared for such a charge but in such cases, it will be best to drive down to Chicago and de-rack / pickup your servers. We are using couple of colo facilities (including SteadFast) and have usually found them to be co-operative and intend to work with us for our custom requirements.
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  22. #22
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    It's about right, in fact.
    Once in 2006 I shipped 20 (twenty) Dell PE750 tower servers from Houston to Seattle.

    The facility itself offered the remote hands to unplug and unrack the servers for free (as they had that on contract), but I had to pay $1200 for Pakmail (www.pakmail.com) to pickup with a forklift (forklifts are also extra costs, and also another extra if you don't have cargo elevators) and properly pack those servers (56lb each), with supplies like packing peanuts and tape and bubble wrap - which takes a long time and is not free - and another $1500 on shipping them.

    Count that each 1U is half of that tower individual size (around 25lb), you are using 15U so $750-800 seems a good estimate, and that is counting only on half-coast-to-coast shipping. If coast-to-coast that can cost more than $60 per 1U server not including the packing and handling.

  23. #23
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    Also, if you were in Equinix or Telx, charges would be three times what you are being charged by Steadfast.

  24. #24
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    I wanted to note that we do not keep server packaging regularly as most colocation customers are local and we do not get any of our own systems in boxes. We generally need to purchase the boxes and packing materials from a local vendor, thus getting the boxes for shipping is also not free. The issue is, 4u boxes are not at all common, and we do not have access to any. Previously, we have used packaging services at FedEx Kinkos or a UPS Store for this, but we have been unhappy with the quality of service they provide, and the pricing (especially considering the extra labor on our side to spend 30+ minutes in transit and at the store). That is certainly still an option, but we can make no guarantees that it will be cheaper or as to the quality of their work.

    Overall, the times given were estimates and I do not see how $40 per half hour is an unreasonable cost, especially considering we're in a major city. This pricing is much lower than most of our competitors and is clearly posted on our web site. We are only billing for work that has specifically been requested by the customer at the stated/agreed rates and if you want to make other arrangements for someone to pick up and/or package/ship the equipment we are more than happy to accomodate that request.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  25. #25
    I actually thought the price quoted was a steal. I'd take it and be happy.
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