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03-28-2011, 08:49 AM #1Web Hosting Evangelist
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Whats the difference between OnApp and Applogic ?
Hello
I have seen hosts offering Cloud solutions, some are based on Applogic and some on OnApp.
What are these ? Are there any advantages/disadvantages ?Last edited by Farrukh; 03-28-2011 at 08:54 AM.
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03-28-2011, 01:35 PM #2Web Hosting Evangelist
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Hi
I'm also interested in this two products. I'm not sure if you can easily compare them. Onapp is a easy way to create high available VPS accounts with a very nice gui. You need a SAN if you want to use the HA.
With Applogic you are actually not just selling pure VPS but you sell a multi tier solution including Loadbalancer, webserver and databaseserver. With this solution you don't need any SAN, because the data is stored on the servers.
I'm not using one of the systems yet, but that's what I got so far. The questions which I have about the Applogic are:
- Is there also a gui for the enduser where he can manage his cluster?
- What is the price for Applogic? (unfortunately no answer from sales yet)
I think both solutions have their advantages but it depends what you would like to sell. OnAPP is more for the mass VPS market and Applogic you sell also the service of building the cluster.
As mentioned, I'm not using this systems yet, therefore the information could be wrong. Would be nice if someone with more knowledge could tell us more.
Mike
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03-28-2011, 02:35 PM #3Junior Guru
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The latest verion of onapp includes loadbalancers, firewalls, private networks and clusters, so thats not a difference.
Two of the key differentials in my mind are
1 - applogic uses distributed storage across your physical cluster to 'replicate' a SAN type service (think raid using whole server). Onapp uses 'real' SANs instead.
2 - OnApp is built for the hosting industry, applogic is a generic application hosting platform.
If you are a host, or in the business of providing hosting to end users to replace vps or dedicated server solutions, onapp is your best bet in my opinion.____________________________________________
European and USA IAAS Cloud Hosting
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Ranked by Cloudharmony.com as the fastest cloud in the world.
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03-28-2011, 03:00 PM #4Web Hosting Evangelist
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I've heard of more bad experiences with OnApp that good. We have a customer that has a 3Par SAN's Equipment with OnApp. Always has issues here and there. Last time I checked his setup there was no real way to segregate connects from one to another from another like Applogic. There was no way to drag and drop your templates, and connect them at will, and allow them to work every time. There also wasn't a way for you to migrate these VM's from one DC to another. or one grid to another, without having to resetup your load balancers, or firewalls, and private networks.
I consider that a huge difference. Anybody can setup a VM with a load balancer on it. Thats not the hard part. The hard part is getting it right EVERY time. with little knowledge. My favorite Acronym " KISS " (Keep It Simple Stupid) Applogic Keeps It Simple.
Thanks,█ Michael Wallace - michael@innoscale.net
█ Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - A Cloud Service Provider
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03-28-2011, 03:03 PM #5Web Hosting Evangelist
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03-28-2011, 03:09 PM #6Junior Guru
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Hi Michael,
You're no doubt a happy Applogic user
We've been running onapp now for nearly two years (before it was called onapp) and while not perfect, it nails any other option on price and the rate of feature release is staggering. Most other platforms are relatively stagnant in my experience.
Not sure what you mean about deploying templates, etc, as onapp supports this now, and works 'every time' as you say - though moving machines between clouds is currently a manual process.
I'm certainly not having a 'go' at applogic, just saying that, as a provider of hosting, I would recommend onapp over applogic (and I have done extensive reviews of applogic)____________________________________________
European and USA IAAS Cloud Hosting
http://www.dediserve.com Dublin, London, Dallas
Ranked by Cloudharmony.com as the fastest cloud in the world.
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03-28-2011, 03:20 PM #7Cloud Hosting Pioneer
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OnApp makes a nice turn-key Cloud hosting option for providers which is why most of them use it (it's easier as a business to offer OnApp). But when hosting enterprise applications and true Clusters OnApp just is not there.
As I've said on the forums before a Cluster is not just a bunch of Servers (whether virtual or traditional) placed all over the Data Center that are able to talk to each other, but they can communicate with on a true private environment, share resources and storage (properly), prioritize and schedule the components of your Cluster precisely per the application requirements, and everything else Michael said.
OnApp may be coming closer but AppLogic has some very big things around the corner for their v3 release...
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03-28-2011, 03:20 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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█ Brent Presley - brent@innoscale.net
█ Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - Enterprise Cloud Hosting and Support
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03-28-2011, 03:23 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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Price wise, when considering ALL costs involved (SAN unit, licensing costs, etc.) AppLogic cost use less than 1/2 of what OnApp would for the same number for cores. And that was just the cost if you LEASED the licenses for Applogic. We opted to purchase our AppLogic licenses outright. We own them and just pay a low yearly fee for support and upgrades from AppLogic.
█ Brent Presley - brent@innoscale.net
█ Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - Enterprise Cloud Hosting and Support
█ 24/7 Dedicated Support, Call us @ 1-888-722-8515
█ www.innoscale.net - Ashburn - Dallas - Seattle - Santa Clara - Chicago - Amsterdam
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03-28-2011, 03:29 PM #10Junior Guru
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As the OP wants the 'differences' between them, I'm not getting into a bashing argument one way or the other
Suffice to say, it depends on the nature of what you want to deploy.
If you're requirement is a replacement for VPS and dedicated servers, onapp is your best option as a hoster.
If you want complex cluster features, approaching that of vcloud from VMware, them applogic is a good contender.
As for costs, onapp is free for the first year, then 10 bucks a core. Hardware aside (which is a bit of a red herring) thats a lot less than the last time I got a price for applogic.____________________________________________
European and USA IAAS Cloud Hosting
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Ranked by Cloudharmony.com as the fastest cloud in the world.
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03-28-2011, 03:33 PM #11Cloud Hosting Pioneer
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OnApp is not "free for a year", it's free for a year for up to 100 cores which isn't all that much. I couldn't even host 1 of my enterprise clients on it for free. Besides that it's $10 per core per month, PLUS $100 per Cloud per month.
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03-28-2011, 03:35 PM #12Junior Guru
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All I am doing is stating facts, not getting into arguments.
Perhaps you could share applogic pricing on a like for like basis?____________________________________________
European and USA IAAS Cloud Hosting
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Ranked by Cloudharmony.com as the fastest cloud in the world.
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03-28-2011, 03:37 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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$10 per core, on our current 16-core per server nodes. $160 per server for On-App. Multiply that by about 50 servers for 3 total "decent" sized clouds. $8000 per mo would be our cost for using OnApp.
Let's just say cut that number in HALF, and then keep going south, and we are getting close to our monthly cost for 50 servers with AppLogic.
All that, and NO EXPENSIVE SANS. Which I would need 3 of, at minimum, since I operate out of 3 datacenters.
First year free is a gimmick, as any of us serious about this marketspace are here to stay (we have already been here 4 years).
In the end, AppLogic costs us less than 1/3 what OnApp would to get similar, or better, performance. That is HUGE HUGE savings.█ Brent Presley - brent@innoscale.net
█ Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - Enterprise Cloud Hosting and Support
█ 24/7 Dedicated Support, Call us @ 1-888-722-8515
█ www.innoscale.net - Ashburn - Dallas - Seattle - Santa Clara - Chicago - Amsterdam
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03-28-2011, 03:38 PM #14Cloud Hosting Pioneer
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Facts are fine, just please be accurate in stating ALL of the facts. I have 1/4 rack and one customer that would surpass the free deal so it's just misleading to state it the way you did.
I can't release my AppLogic pricing as I am a partner and we're under an NDA. What I can tell you is that it is cheaper than OnApp, not even getting into the hardware debate.
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03-28-2011, 03:38 PM #15Web Hosting Evangelist
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In terms of the end user, which cloud solution (Applogic or OnApp) would be advantageous for their hosting requirements ?
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03-28-2011, 03:42 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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Depends on what you need it for. If you want a truly scalable product, that can spin up additional web servers as needed, deploy quickly, and be fully high-available, then AppLogic has no comparison.
Heck, when we were at Cloud Expo a few months ago, VMWare was touting their product roadmap for the next 2 YEARS to come. The VMWare guys then came over to the 3Tera booth and saw AppLogic and almost creamed their shorts. EVERYTHING they were saying they were gonna do in the next 2 years, was already done, completed, and had been sold for over a year on AppLogic.█ Brent Presley - brent@innoscale.net
█ Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - Enterprise Cloud Hosting and Support
█ 24/7 Dedicated Support, Call us @ 1-888-722-8515
█ www.innoscale.net - Ashburn - Dallas - Seattle - Santa Clara - Chicago - Amsterdam
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03-28-2011, 03:43 PM #17Junior Guru
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Thanks Brent, the pricing has certainly dropped since I last got a quote.
We deployed Onapp in Feb 09 and the model works very well for us. At the time, applogic pricing was around the 500 dollar a server mark iirc.____________________________________________
European and USA IAAS Cloud Hosting
http://www.dediserve.com Dublin, London, Dallas
Ranked by Cloudharmony.com as the fastest cloud in the world.
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03-28-2011, 03:43 PM #18Cloud Hosting Pioneer
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It entirely depends on your needs as the end user. In your case I know you are shopping around for a shared web hosting service. In your case I would be more concerned with the company itself and their policies, service, support, and the rest of their infrastructure. Whether the host chooses to use OnApp vs AppLogic is going to be negligible for a $5/mo hosting account.
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03-28-2011, 03:45 PM #19Web Hosting Evangelist
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03-28-2011, 03:46 PM #20Web Hosting Evangelist
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03-28-2011, 03:46 PM #21Junior Guru
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As for scalability and the ability to deploy quickly and be fully high-available, onapp does this today, and has been for quite some time...
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03-28-2011, 03:46 PM #22Cloud Hosting Pioneer
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03-28-2011, 03:49 PM #23Web Hosting Evangelist
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03-28-2011, 03:51 PM #24Web Hosting Evangelist
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Wouldnt a hosting provider using OnApp or Applogic have any effect on the end user's use of their hosting accounts ?
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03-28-2011, 03:53 PM #25Junior Guru
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To be honest Farrukh, you're never likely to notice the difference no matter which cloud platform your host is running.
Things like that only matter if you are running whole servers.____________________________________________
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