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  1. #1

    What's required in using Colocation

    I've been thinking about the security of the data of my company for some time now and have been thinking about colocation. We have always used silly methods like CD's and backup hard drives and always keep losing data. And guess what - we still have the traditional methods of paper only.
    From my understanding, I can take up maybe a 1U or 2U space at a data center, order a server and get it slotted into the space I take up. What sort of server would I need - I've been looking at the following configuration (though I'd prefer a brand like intel or Dell):
    SuperMicro, 2U, I7, Quad Core, 2.66Ghz

    4GB RAM, DDR3 ECC

    1 x 500GB SATA Hard Drive ( OS)

    1 x 1TB SATA Hard Drives (backup)
    Would this config be a good choice?

    But when my server is slotted into my space, what next? how do I access it? how do I install an OS (OK, the colo guys can install the OS at a fee), how do I backup my data to it? What about security - if I can access it, who else can?

    I'd really appreciate so advise for a beginner in this.

  2. #2
    That server looks like it'd be fine, but it depends what you are using it for.
    You can install the OS before shipping it out, or by using kvm over ip once it's installed.

    Is this server going to be primarily used for backups?

  3. #3
    Thanks, Sam.

    Yep, usage is primarily for backups.

    I'd like to have more info about KVP over IP if possible. I did go to Wikipedia searching around, but it was talking about switches - I have no idea how I'd operate these switches, and where about's they'd have to be installed?

    Is KVP-over-IP enough to remotely access and manage my server entirely, including doing my backup's, etc..,?

  4. #4
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    You can accomodate 4x 3.5" Disks in a 1U chassis, so I would use a 1U system instead as it will generally cost you less to colocate.

    Core i7's do run warm and have quite high power requirements (130W), if it's only a backup server you could just go for a Dual core CPU, or the new Xeons are much better on power and heat.

    If you get a supermicro motherboard which is a -F model, it includes excellent IPMI/KVM built in.

  5. #5
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    Why not use a remote back up service? There are many companies that offer this for great pricing as well. I recommend searching on this forum for some.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bizres View Post
    Thanks, Sam.

    Yep, usage is primarily for backups.

    I'd like to have more info about KVP over IP if possible. I did go to Wikipedia searching around, but it was talking about switches - I have no idea how I'd operate these switches, and where about's they'd have to be installed?

    Is KVP-over-IP enough to remotely access and manage my server entirely, including doing my backup's, etc..,?
    Well colocation is usually ideal for someone with a number of servers and/or very high end servers.

    How much data do you need to store? You might be better off going with some type of remote backup service.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizres View Post
    I've been thinking about the security of the data of my company for some time now and have been thinking about colocation. We have always used silly methods like CD's and backup hard drives and always keep losing data. And guess what - we still have the traditional methods of paper only.
    From my understanding, I can take up maybe a 1U or 2U space at a data center, order a server and get it slotted into the space I take up. What sort of server would I need - I've been looking at the following configuration (though I'd prefer a brand like intel or Dell):
    Would this config be a good choice?

    But when my server is slotted into my space, what next? how do I access it? how do I install an OS (OK, the colo guys can install the OS at a fee), how do I backup my data to it? What about security - if I can access it, who else can?

    I'd really appreciate so advise for a beginner in this.
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  8. #8
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    +1 for getting some managed services - in order of ease of use:
    1. (recommended) managed backup
    2. managed storage, with your own backup service.
    3. a dedicated server rather than a colo

    There are very cheap Amazon based solutions out there, or many DCs will offer managed backup services based on their own storage infrastructures.

    Buying a managed backup will take away all the hassles about server management, break-fixes, security etc, strongly recommended, and probably cheaper in the long run than a colo solution.
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  9. #9
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    To keep your costs lower, avoid going with needlessly high power usage processors like that i7 you just quoted (im assuming its the 120W TDP i7-920 or something).
    You don't really need that CPU especially for the purpose you will most likely using this machine for.
    Stick with something 95W TDP or lower and it will save you money every month as you will only need 1Amp of power allocated to you.
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  10. #10
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    Online backup via colocation or via a dedicated backup provider is a great idea.

    A few considerations:

    Do you have the bandwith to backup your data nightly?

    Do you have a strategy if you can't backup all your data nightly to do full backup weekly and changed files only nightly?

    How long do you need to keep your data backed up?

    Any industry or other business requirements for this data (encrypted, dual backup..)?

    Are you keeping local backup and this is a second layer of backup or your sole backup method? If your only backup, how much is your tolerance in terms of recovery times?

    All of the above should be considered but to answer some of your questions more directly colocation a great idea for offsite backups. Saves your bacon if you have a local site problem. Get an IPKVM even a Lantronix spider for a single server. Ask your provider if they have remote reboot ports for those times when you need a physical repower of the system. This allows you to remotely connect to the server as if you are sitting right in front of the physical machine. You can do anything you need to with Ipkvm and remote reboot.

    Supermicro is a great brand. If you really want the name go with either HP or Dell. You don't need a ton of processor power or ram just get something with lots of diskspace and simple drive redundancy.

    If you decide to just use a backup provider use BQbackup.com. Super reliable and they will help you get setup.

    If you want to backup local pc's offsite as well use SOSOnlinebackup.com
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  11. #11
    Thanks so much for all the advise and help - it's really getting me on the right track.

    We did go for a managed online backup sometime back but had a rough time with them - they "suddenly" lowered the space on their backup plans and reduced the size of our backups and we lost alot of data without any compensation, so we'd never never never put our data for others to take care of - we'll pay a bit more but do things our way. I know, there may be more reliable managed backup providers that what we ended up with, but we've lost confidence in this method.

    Visbits, thanks for the dell config. I took a look at this on dell.com but their configurator was coming to about $3500. I'd really appreciate if you could suggest some good dell rep's.

    Coolraul, we have about 256kbps uplink totally unused at night and during weekends, so it can be used entirely for the backup.
    When you say, "Get an IPKVM even a Lantronix spider for a single server.", is this some physical switch or thing I need to install next to the server at the colo? for the record, I'm based in Africa, and am looking at colocating in US. I've asked the colo provider (burst.net) if they offer remote reboot, but from what I see on their order form, you have to request a reboot
    We do need encryption both in transit and of our data in the server - this is the part I don't quite understand, how will we be logging into our server - do we need some software installed at both ends?
    As for the OS, I'm looking at Ubuntu.
    We're hoping to keep the data backed up as long as we're in business.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizres View Post
    I've asked the colo provider (burst.net) if they offer remote reboot, but from what I see on their order form, you have to request a reboot
    We offer both Remote Reboot ports and IP KVM.
    .
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  13. #13
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    Bizres,
    How much data are you backing up ?

    You will be able to upload only 2.5GB a day even if you max out your uplink. At this speed, you will take more than a year to backup 1 TB of data.

    How about getting another PC with redundant storage in your own office and hooking it up to a 100mbps LAN ? It will be very cheap and fast.

    Or a small rental dedicated server in the above mentioned BurstNET DC ?

    It really depends on how much data you are going to back up.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizres View Post
    Coolraul, we have about 256kbps uplink totally unused at night and during weekends, so it can be used entirely for the backup.
    I don't know how much data you have to backup but considering that you are getting a 1TB hard disk I assume its in the 100s of gigabytes? If that is the case your 256kilobits (?) per second connection is not going to be enough. That alone is reason enough to drop this idea of remote backups.

    But maybe you want to go ahead anyway? In that case you need not worry about software. Install a server Linux OS like debian or Centos. Then setup SSH public key encryption and use rsync on the backup server to connect to your office server in Africa and grab copies of your files. It can be fully automated and because you are using public key encryption it is secure as well. This BTW is exactly what professional backup hosting providers do so its a tried and tested strategy.

    Now onto server hardware. Go with an atom based server. You really really don't need much CPU power for backup hosting so buying an expensive CPU is a total waste of money.

  15. #15
    uplink is not an issue. I can get my ISP to increase it to 1mbps for a higher subscription and the 1TB h/drive is for future demands as they rise, but I have about 300-400GB for starters.

    But inspite of it all, we'd like to go ahead with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Website themes View Post
    But maybe you want to go ahead anyway? In that case you need not worry about software. Install a server Linux OS like debian or Centos. Then setup SSH public key encryption and use rsync on the backup server to connect to your office server in Africa and grab copies of your files. It can be fully automated and because you are using public key encryption it is secure as well. This BTW is exactly what professional backup hosting providers do so its a tried and tested strategy.
    I really like this. Would it mean that we wouldn't need KVP-over-IP or the Remote Reboot ports? (Burst.net confirmed they offer this but I believe would need to be ordered as additional addon if required). Where would I be able to get more info on this, pls?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizres View Post
    uplink is not an issue. I can get my ISP to increase it to 1mbps for a higher subscription and the 1TB h/drive is for future demands as they rise, but I have about 300-400GB for starters.

    But inspite of it all, we'd like to go ahead with this.


    I really like this. Would it mean that we wouldn't need KVP-over-IP or the Remote Reboot ports? (Burst.net confirmed they offer this but I believe would need to be ordered as additional addon if required). Where would I be able to get more info on this, pls?
    You should check out the Lantronix Spider. Depending on the DC they may be able to plug one of these into whatever server you want, you'll just need to get them to give you one extra uplink and power plug, although it uses minimal power and bandwidth so i don't see this being too big a issue. Find the link here:

    http://www.lantronix.com/it-manageme...nx-spider.html

    Works really well from my experience and you don't need your own specialized multi-port switch or large capital investment to get it going.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizres View Post
    uplink is not an issue. I can get my ISP to increase it to 1mbps for a higher subscription and the 1TB h/drive is for future demands as they rise, but I have about 300-400GB for starters.

    But inspite of it all, we'd like to go ahead with this.


    I really like this. Would it mean that we wouldn't need KVP-over-IP or the Remote Reboot ports? (Burst.net confirmed they offer this but I believe would need to be ordered as additional addon if required). Where would I be able to get more info on this, pls?
    You need kvm if your operating system does not boot or some other unforeseen event happens. I think if you don't have kvm you can hire burst.net remote hands or maybe they will lend you a kvm for a fee. KVM is not required for the day to day operation of your server. For that all you need to do is to SSH into your server. You will need to be familiar with the Linux command line. If you are not then you will need to hire someone who is or install a control panel.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Website themes View Post
    You need kvm if your operating system does not boot or some other unforeseen event happens. I think if you don't have kvm you can hire burst.net remote hands or maybe they will lend you a kvm for a fee. KVM is not required for the day to day operation of your server. For that all you need to do is to SSH into your server. You will need to be familiar with the Linux command line. If you are not then you will need to hire someone who is or install a control panel.
    This is getting a bit scary - I'm not familiar with linux commands AT ALL.
    Burst.net are quoting a $39.95/month/server fee for KVM-over-IP.
    When you suggest the use of a control panel, how about cpanel? I do use it for managing my web hosting a/c, but don't know if it can be used to manage my server(s) remotely, or, if my operating system does not boot or some other unforeseen event happens? On the other hand, cpanel too is charged at about $19.95/mth. What about Direct Admin web control panel? that's about $9.95/mth directadmin.com/demo.html But again, if the OS does not boot, how would I reach the control panel?
    I like what you've said earlier,
    Quote Originally Posted by Website themes;
    But maybe you want to go ahead anyway? In that case you need not worry about software. Install a server Linux OS like debian or Centos. Then setup SSH public key encryption and use rsync on the backup server to connect to your office server in Africa and grab copies of your files. It can be fully automated and because you are using public key encryption it is secure as well. This BTW is exactly what professional backup hosting providers do so its a tried and tested strategy.
    Can I do all this without knowing linux commands and without using KVM-over-IP? Maybe KVM-over-IP is not as bad as it sounds - where can I get more info about it? Does the server too have to have maybe KVR RAM or KVR ports or whatever?

  19. #19
    Based on your level of knowledge, I would really reconsider colocation. A dedicated server is difficult enough, colo is even harder since you have to do EVERYTHING on your own.

    Have you looked into managed hosting?

  20. #20
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    There are a few things that you can only do through the management ports on a server, connecting to these management ports is what people are referring to as KVM. This is normally done by physically plugging in a keyboard and monitor into these ports.

    KVM over IP just lets you access these ports remotely (over an IP network, that is over the internet) so you don't have to physically plug into them - and a Lantronix Spider is a relatively cheap way of providing KVM over IP. There are other ways of providing the same facility.

    Regardless of all that, can I strongly echo SamBarrow's comments below? If you've been messed around in the past, then I understand why you don't want to use another managed backup service, but there are plenty of good professional providers out there. At the very least please look at using a managed server.

    Good luck!
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  21. #21
    Hi, I know you have said you had problems with managed services but I would really re-consider co-location. With a managed service it is very easy to increase and decrease the resources as per your requirements and co-location brings you a whole list of issues that you have to consider which you otherwise wouldn't have to. Plus your hardware will lose value and has a limited lifespan so there is also a financial aspect to consider. The tricky part is finding a provider that will meet your needs but I'm sure others will be able to provide good recommendations depending your requirements.

  22. #22
    I'm still firm on not going for managed - badly burnt my fingers. As long as using colocation for off-site backup is not impossible, I'm confident it would work out better in the long run, even though the initial stages may take some time understanding.

    I have to say, with all the advise I've been getting on this thread from all you friends and the tons of reading I've been doing over the past two days, I now have a much better understanding of KVM-over-IP and what to expect.

    Initially I was expecting to be able to use the likes of TeamViewer to be able to access and manage the server remotely, but I like the suggestion by Website Themes:
    Install a server Linux OS like debian or Centos. Then setup SSH public key encryption and use rsync on the backup server to connect to your office server in Africa and grab copies of your files. It can be fully automated and because you are using public key encryption it is secure as well.
    BTW, which server models come with KVP-over-IP built-in, or, as Burst.net confirmed that they do offer KVM-over-IP, would they in this case be providing the Lantronix Spider (or equivalent)? - in other words, if I were to order the KVM-over-IP as an addon from Burst.net, would they provide the hardware for it or would I still need to buy my own Spider? And, if I were to buy my own Spider, would I then need to take up KVM-over-IP as an addon from Burst.net?

    Now the next question comes, what is the difference between IPMI, Remote Reboot Port and KVM-over-IP?

  23. #23
    From wikipedia:
    "The Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) is a standardized computer system interface used by system administrators to manage a computer system and monitor its operation."

    Remote reboot port allows you to remotely cycle the power to your server meaning you can perform hard reboots on it in case it freezes.
    KvM over IP will allow you to remotely connect to the PC with direct monitor, keyboard and mouse input rather than input via some terminal such as SSH or Remote Desktop. Useful if the machine loses network (for some software reason for example) so you can still access it via the KvM or if you are performing operations that you can't take care of remotely.
    Hope this helps.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by finwiz View Post
    From wikipedia:
    "The Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) is a standardized computer system interface used by system administrators to manage a computer system and monitor its operation."

    Remote reboot port allows you to remotely cycle the power to your server meaning you can perform hard reboots on it in case it freezes.
    KvM over IP will allow you to remotely connect to the PC with direct monitor, keyboard and mouse input rather than input via some terminal such as SSH or Remote Desktop. Useful if the machine loses network (for some software reason for example) so you can still access it via the KvM or if you are performing operations that you can't take care of remotely.
    Hope this helps.
    Thanks so much, Finwiz. It's really all making sense now.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCS-Chris View Post
    If you get a supermicro motherboard which is a -F model, it includes excellent IPMI/KVM built in.
    • If so, I wouldn't need to buy a Lantronix Spider or equivalent, right?
    • On the same note, would I need Burst.net to give me any additional features like an additional power port or so?
    • And, if I were to buy my own Lantronix Spider or have a server with IPMI/KVM built-in, would I then need to take up KVM-over-IP as an addon from Burst.net?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolraul View Post
    If you want to backup local pc's offsite as well use SOSOnlinebackup.com
    I would never go with an operation that is applying such persistent spamming as sosonlinebackup.com. No way!

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