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  1. #1
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    Tier IV - Fault Tolerant Datacenter

    I'm curious since I'm reading some info about Datacenter levels.
    Is there a Tier IV Datacenter in WHT?
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  2. #2
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    WHT is in a data center. Data centers aren't in WHT.
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    I am not aware of ANY truly Tier IV data center that offers colocation services.

    Why the request/demand for Tier IV? Tier II-III is going to be much more common and meet the requirements of 99%+ of people/companies. The Tier IV facility is generally for major financial institutions/transactions where billions of dollars are at stake, for certain arms of the government, for carrying out primary business operations of Fortune 100 companies, etc.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    WHT is in a data center. Data centers aren't in WHT.
    What are you talking about? Are you sure you understand the question?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    I am not aware of ANY truly Tier IV data center that offers colocation services.

    Why the request/demand for Tier IV? Tier II-III is going to be much more common and meet the requirements of 99%+ of people/companies. The Tier IV facility is generally for major financial institutions/transactions where billions of dollars are at stake, for certain arms of the government, for carrying out primary business operations of Fortune 100 companies, etc.
    I think I will agree with you. I found this website (The Uptime Institute) and the only datacenter that belongs to this category are private institutions.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    I am not aware of ANY truly Tier IV data center that offers colocation services.
    NOTA? Terremark claims it's Tier IV.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cresci View Post
    NOTA? Terremark claims it's Tier IV.
    Show me the audit report, then I'll believe it. Have seen plenty of people claim it...

    Just looking at their web site "N+2 power and cooling infrastructure" means they're not Tier IV. Tier IV would need to be 2(N+1) or so...
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  8. #8
    Many companies claim tier 4 but they dont live up to it....Karl hit the nail on the head....private only
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  9. #9
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    There are some that offer Colo, I know one in Frankfurt and one in Beijing i think.

    Not cheap.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    What are you talking about? Are you sure you understand the question?
    I get what he's saying, I don't think you understand his answer

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    I think I will agree with you. I found this website (The Uptime Institute) and the only datacenter that belongs to this category are private institutions.
    While this is true, I wonder why a private institution would spend the money to get audited by the Uptime Institute.. It's kind of like, what if they only got a Tier III rating, are they then going to rip out their infrastructure or change how their data center was built. . . . Plus, it's not even a selling point since it is a private data center - who cares what tier it is as long as they are confident in their build..

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    It helps with Insurance and similar things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colosolutionz View Post
    I get what he's saying, I don't think you understand his answer
    Oh really? are you guys some sort of ?compadres
    Have you notice that the two of you are diverted to some unknown topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by colosolutionz View Post
    While this is true, I wonder why a private institution would spend the money to get audited by the Uptime Institute.. It's kind of like, what if they only got a Tier III rating, are they then going to rip out their infrastructure or change how their data center was built. . . . Plus, it's not even a selling point since it is a private data center - who cares what tier it is as long as they are confident in their build..
    Tsk...tsk...tsk! your answer shows how young you are with the way you think.
    But for your assignment, answer this...Why Facebook and other big companies has their own datacenter? This is off-topic.
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  15. #15
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    I believe most public datacenters fall under the Tier I and II category. Are there even any true Tier III's that exist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DPG View Post
    I believe most public datacenters fall under the Tier I and II category. Are there even any true Tier III's that exist?
    absolutely there is tier 3's
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  18. #18
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    So only one part of one of their datacenters is Tier III?

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    Their Phoenix location is the only Tier III, check it here:
    http://www.iodatacenters.com/data-ce...ix-data-center
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by indiagirl View Post
    From what they say the power side would meet the requirements, but I still don't see any mention of any actual audit, nor the redundancy of the cooling/HVAC side. Even then, simply being 2(N+1) isn't necessarily enough as the entirety of the paths also has to be redundant.
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  21. #21
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by colosolutionz View Post
    While this is true, I wonder why a private institution would spend the money to get audited by the Uptime Institute.. It's kind of like, what if they only got a Tier III rating, are they then going to rip out their infrastructure or change how their data center was built. . . . Plus, it's not even a selling point since it is a private data center - who cares what tier it is as long as they are confident in their build..
    As someone who's spent some time in the enterprise world, the overriding concern for many datacenter projects is not so much cost as it is risk mitigation (or in less charitable terms, CYA). Enterprise customers love spending the big bucks on "expert" outside consultants so there's someone else to blame when something goes wrong.

    On a more practical point, I don't think anyone really is retrofitting an old datacenter for something like Tier III (certainly not Tier IV) status, they are almost always greenfield projects. The Uptime Institute has two certification processes--one is an onsite review of the actual facility (which they call "Certification of Constructed Facility"), the other is a review of the design documents before construction (called appropriately enough, "Certification of Design Documents"). If you look at the list of tier certified facilities, the number of datacenters certified by onsite review isn't really growing, only the list of design doc certified facilities. The onsite review is obviously more expensive, plus given that old facilities typically have both poor power density and would need serious retrofitting to achieve tier III/IV status (all while presumably still operating--if you're going after a tier III/IV status, the datacenter is obviously important enough to demand continuous operation), it's all pretty much new facilities at this point.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    absolutely there is tier 3's
    Probably a lot less than people realize, and probably datacenters that never get mentioned on WHT. This topic seems to come up every year or so; looking over the list of certified facilities, it appears there are few more than there used to be a year or two ago (at one point, there was no Tier III multi-tenant facility in North America, then just one--OnePartner in VA--and there still isn't a Tier IV facility). Aside from i/o in Phoenix, here are some Tier III certified facilities on the list that I Googled:

    Visi / MN
    Terevault / TN
    OnePartner / VA
    Netpulse / ON (the only Tier III facility in Canada)
    RecoveryPoint / MD

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhang View Post
    There are some that offer Colo, I know one in Frankfurt and one in Beijing i think.

    Not cheap.
    The list is here:

    http://professionalservices.uptimein...m/tiercert.htm

    There are no tier III/IV certified facilities in Germany, and the only one listed in China is Suzhou International Science-Park Data Center Co., P.R. China (Tier IV).

    There's actually a pretty easy way to tell--if someone actually is certified, you can bet they'll be prominently displaying the certification seal (as display of the seal is one of the perks that comes with the certification). If you don't see a seal, it almost assuredly hasn't been certified.

  24. #24
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    Now, I don't feel it needs to be audited by the Uptime Institute to indicate or claim what your tier status is, but I'm also not going to just believe what the marketing people tell me either. You shouldn't need to pay $100k+ to tell people the redundancies in your facility.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    But for your assignment, answer this...Why Facebook and other big companies has their own datacenter? This is off-topic.
    They outsource quite a bit too.

  26. #26
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    Most facilities don't follow the tier specs to letter anymore either.

    That does not mean they are not good. For example - the number one issue with most companies is power uptime. I think you can find some companies that have tier 3 on everything except their power has been upgraded to full tier 4 since it is the number one issue for companies in most surveys.

    Then you are only paying for the redundancy you are requesting.

    You can find several of these out there. You just need to ask and konw what you are asking for.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    Most facilities don't follow the tier specs to letter anymore either.

    That does not mean they are not good. For example - the number one issue with most companies is power uptime. I think you can find some companies that have tier 3 on everything except their power has been upgraded to full tier 4 since it is the number one issue for companies in most surveys.

    Then you are only paying for the redundancy you are requesting.

    You can find several of these out there. You just need to ask and konw what you are asking for.
    And you are referring to one of your datacenter which is Tier IV in terms of power reliability Yeah, I already read your website.
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  28. #28
    Our FIBERTOWN colocation data center in Central Texas is Tier-IV designed (which means we didn't pay Uptime thousands of $$ to say Tier IV, but we do offer a 100% uptime SLA).

    I wrote something on tiers that you may find useful...://blog.fibertown.com/2010/10/15/the-truth-about-data-center-tier-classifications/

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollystarPR View Post
    Our FIBERTOWN colocation data center in Central Texas is Tier-IV designed (which means we didn't pay Uptime thousands of $$ to say Tier IV, but we do offer a 100% uptime SLA).

    I wrote something on tiers that you may find useful...://blog.fibertown.com/2010/10/15/the-truth-about-data-center-tier-classifications/
    Nice plug, but N+1 is certainly NOT Tier IV... http://fibertown.com/data-center/ So you're basically lying? Either you don't have N+1 power OR you're not Tier IV (not even Tier III), yet then get into a discussion to advertise the fact?

    This is exactly the type of marketing BS I'm tired of that makes it hard for the customers to actually know, because everyone is telling them something different.
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  30. #30
    My apologies Karl, didn't mean to plug...just joining the conversation. Thanks for pointing out the N+1, evaluations have proven us to be 2N. I need to update.

    My intention was to say that there are data centers designing to Tier IV standards with regards to colocation, and certainly an uptime SLA means more to businesses than a formal Tier certification. Ask your provider for this.

  31. #31
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    Out of curiosity, how does one get to 2N on cooling? If you need a 500 ton chiller and 12x30 ton crac units, do you then setup 2 entire of these systems?
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollystarPR View Post
    My apologies Karl, didn't mean to plug...just joining the conversation. Thanks for pointing out the N+1, evaluations have proven us to be 2N. I need to update.

    My intention was to say that there are data centers designing to Tier IV standards with regards to colocation, and certainly an uptime SLA means more to businesses than a formal Tier certification. Ask your provider for this.
    But I thought 2(N+1) would be required for Tier IV, as it needs to be concurrently maintainable (2N) AND be able to sustain a failure (+1). Dual corded IT gear on 2N is the requirement for Tier III. I could be wrong on that though, been awhile since I've gone through all the docs. Jeff Hinkle would probably know though.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 03-24-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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  33. #33
    As I am not an engineer, I can't speak to the specifics...but I do know that in order to be "concurrently maintainable" a system must be able to be shut down for maintenance without affecting service (and would fit either 2N or N+1).

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockbull View Post

    There are no tier III/IV certified facilities in Germany, and the only one listed in China is Suzhou International Science-Park Data Center Co., P.R. China (Tier IV).
    Maybe no one in Germany did use the Audit - but there certainly are facilitys that have Tier III/IV standards (European Central Bank (FFM), Frankfurt Stock Exchange (FFM), US Military Bases Computing Centers (Ramstein)).

    It is also not unlikely for Chinese Datacenters to be not shown on such lists (at least for government owned ones), for security reasons - even the street address of most is highly secret.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollystarPR View Post
    As I am not an engineer, I can't speak to the specifics...but I do know that in order to be "concurrently maintainable" a system must be able to be shut down for maintenance without affecting service (and would fit either 2N or N+1).
    How would you do that with N+1? Example: How would you replace the connections between your UPS bank and PDUs while still maintaining uptime if you're only N+1? The UPS itself may be concurrently maintainable, but not the entire power infrastructure and path, and that is what counts, not just individual components.
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  36. #36
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    We are looking at moving into Terremark and i will vouch for them. Its effectively the east coast datacentre for international coms. If this datacentre goes down. The majority of International calling facilities in the USA goes with it.

    We will be interconnecting into several of our providers in this datacentre over the next 3 months and its where all the big Tiers 1 also interconnect.

    There are also a few here in the UK. But are privately owned or are owned by the likes of IBM.

    We are also in the process of moving into Europe's Biggest Tier 3 Datacentre shortly (Next Generation Data). I have been to a fair few datacentres and the facilities at Next Gen are extremely impressive.
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  37. #37
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    But Terremark has N+2 power redundancy, according to their site, thus they are not Tier IV.
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  38. #38
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    Which data centre are you talking about? I am talking about their Miami facility.

    They have datacentres all across North and South America.
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  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by CymraegWalesHosting View Post
    ---snip---
    The majority of International calling facilities in the USA goes with it.

    We will be interconnecting into several of our providers in this datacentre over the next 3 months and its where all the big Tiers 1 also interconnect.

    ----snip----
    Sounds like Interxion in Frankfurt.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yujin View Post
    Their Phoenix location is the only Tier III, check it here:
    http://www.iodatacenters.com/data-ce...ix-data-center
    To clarify, only their DESIGN was certified, not their building. There are two things you can do to be certified, you can say - I plan on building my datacenter like this, and the DOCUMENT gets certified. Or you can have them actually audit your facility and have the FACILITY certified.

    Design documents != the facility

    Honestly, I don't know of a single Tier IV colo facility that got certified. I do not know their reasons, but I assume it is the same reason we are not certified so I can explain that and it might shed some light on this.

    So while we have a decent amount of hosting customers, a vast majority of our customers are enterprises who bring in their own engineers to go over our as-builts and walk the facility. A tier certification makes no difference to them because they need to do their own audit anyway.

    We just do not see the benefit of paying the 100k or whatever it is to get a full facility certification when it is not going to be used by anything but marketing. And we really don't see the point in having them certify a set of papers. Our customers would laugh at us if we said - good news, you do not need to audit us because these documents got certified as T3
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