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Thread: Legal issue - please help
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03-03-2011, 08:23 AM #1WHT Addict
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Legal issue - please help
Dear Professional Users,
I have quite a problem. I'm hosting one site for over 4years. Their were always late with the payment and quite complicated...
They didn't pay for 8 months and I kept sending polite emails/invoices telling them they should pay ASAP. They finally replied few weeks ago to only tell me that they are not using the site for over 8months and they would not pay me anything.
I tried to compromise by giving them discount and explaining them that they can't just run away without payment and without notification about they are leaving.
As I found from emails - the last time they used the email (services) was only two weeks ago! So it's obvious that thay were using the services.
Since no compromise was agreed I closed their site down and put the NO payment message on it hoping that they would start to talk to me at least in some fair way.
What happen now is, that they said they would take me to court for that message (which is there only for 3days after over 8months of non payment).
The only problem from my side is that I can't find the original agreement, however I'm hoping I still have the rights based on the fact they paid till 8months ago for over 3years.
Any advice please?
What do you think I should do?
Thank you very much.
Regards
PS: I'm UK located.
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03-03-2011, 08:27 AM #2Web Hosting Guru
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And where is this customer located?
Respectfully,
Mr. Terrence
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03-03-2011, 08:33 AM #3WHT Addict
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Hi Thaman,
I'm from UK. They are also from UK.
Thanks a lot!
One more information, They argue by this:
Definition
Making of false, derogatory statement(s) in private or public about a person's business practices, character, financial status, morals, or reputation. Oral defamation is a slander whereas printed or published defamation is a libel. The plaintiff must prove that the defamation was communicated to someone other than him or her. And, if the statement is not obviously defamatory, it must be shown that it carries a defamatory meaning (see innuendo) and that reasonable people would think that it refers to the plaintiff. In case of unintentional defamation, the defendant may mitigate damages or escape liability by offering an apology. Defamation with malicious intent (see malice) invalidates the defense of fair comment and qualified privilege. Defamation that imputes a criminal offense punishable with imprisonment, is usually a sufficient ground for a court action even in the absence of a proof of special damages. Under the UK law, defamation damages are assessed by a jury and not a judge.
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03-03-2011, 08:51 AM #4Web Hosting Guru
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I'm not sure how it works in the UK - but how can they take you to court after not paying their bill for 8 months? If anything it should be the other way around. How much money are we talking about anyway?
Respectfully,
Mr. Terrence
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03-03-2011, 08:59 AM #5WHT Addict
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Thanks again,
Exactly! I don't know what they are thinking!?
Luckily you are thinking the same! I tried to settle down many times which as I know is very important for court. Last think I tried is to give them some discount, but even that didn't work!
The owe me £300.
I don't know if they are trying to just scare me or what!?
Thanks a lot!
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03-03-2011, 10:23 AM #6Aspiring Evangelist
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If they are taking it to the law, then i don't think they can do much. You have the right to terminate their account if they didn't pay. You could have deleted their site 8 months ago. But you didn't do that. Instead you gave them a chance to pay you and even offered discounts. And besides, if they are not using the account(like they said), it shouldn't matter to them if you put up a no payment page. I'm just saying what i think. Good luck
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03-03-2011, 10:27 AM #7Junior Guru
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Threatening lawsuits is free. Actually launching a lawsuit is not.
Someone who hasn't paid a hosting bill in 8 months is likely blowing hot air about paying an attorney. I mean it's obvious: they hate paying!
Laugh them off and enjoy the rest of your day.
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03-03-2011, 10:52 AM #8Web Hosting Evangelist
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I'm surprised you let 8 months pass without them paying. I would've suspended them after no more than 30 days.
They don't have a case either way.
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03-03-2011, 11:16 AM #9WHT Addict
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Dear all,
thank you very much for all your kind comments!
I'll try to keep strong and keep the site on with "lovely Non-payment" notice!
Any other advice are still appreciated, so if you could see problems, please keep posting!
Truly regards!
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03-03-2011, 11:26 AM #10Web Hosting Evangelist
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I'm sure you could take this up with the small claims court - you can actually file a claim online, if I'm not mistaken.
See here for more information.
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03-03-2011, 11:49 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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What nature is the customer contract and their invoicing?
Website hosting is normally paid in advance for a fixed period
For example, 01 April 2001 to 31 March 2002 at a rate of £100 per year
You then have a term in the contract as to what happens when payment is not received on or after expiry, and a further term outlining what happens after an extended time
For example, the webste is suspended for 30 days / one calendar month, and after this time all the content and files are deleted
The next issue is a Domain Name, as this may not yet have expired
Again once payment has not been made then an account disabled notice should be put into place and applied until that Domain Name expires or payment is made (note this may be longer than the hosting itself if paid separately)
8 months is far too long to wait for payment
I have had customers contact me three months after expiry to ask where there website is, to advise they did not make payment and that all the content has been disabled or deleted (as appropriate)
Please advise what stage you are at, with relevance to the above
Nextly, download the server log and this will confirm how much they are using the account
They may claim they are not using it, but they may simply be referring to their own use of FTP or visiting the website, and not taking into account email or visitors to the website
Finally, they can make all the claims they want about defamation
So long as you don't post the persons name, business name, or Domain Name, there would not be a case to answer...
As far as I can see you are in the right, as you mention "I have a customer"Last edited by m8internet; 03-03-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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03-03-2011, 11:52 AM #12WHT Addict
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Thank you Serco,
Good link! I'm already looking at it for quite a while now but I'm not native speaker and afraid I'm going to miss something!
If I haven't got other chance I suggest I'll go for it!
Regards
J.
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03-03-2011, 11:58 AM #13New Member
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If they can't even pay you for the hosting then they definitely won't take you to court because lawyer fees cost way more than $300. They are trying to play smart thinking they can scare you so they don't have to pay.
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03-03-2011, 12:02 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Small claims court for £300 is likely to be a waste of time, effort, and resources
However, you do have their contact details (assuming they are legitimate) to take the matter further but this assumes you sent them an invoice and they received it
Personally, give them 30 days notice of termination of account
Advise them to have their new provider contact you within the next 30 days
After 30 days all data and files will be deleted, and no further correspondence will be entered intoM8 INTERNET : Simple and cost effective website hosting from the UK
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03-03-2011, 12:12 PM #15WHT Addict
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Thank you very much for your reply m8internet!
You are right! The only think that surprise me is:
Pleas, What exactly do you mean by this?
I'll be more specific:
I have build the site in the first place and I have bought the domain name too. (Expires sometime next year). So I have full control over all.
In the end I said to them that the notice and the whole site will be removed from the server after they pay. As mentioned before I'm not charging anything extra and I offer them discount 15%. Also in this offer I said to them that they will be able to upload the existing website and they would be able to transfer the domain name to their names if they wish. (Even thought they said to me they have new one, which they have bought only about 2weeks ago)
Back to this: "So long as you don't post the persons name, business name, or Domain Name, there would not be a case to answer..."
What I did is exactly this:
I removed contact, testimonial and other pages... I left the other pages there but in the header I post the IMAGE with message This site xxx.co.uk had been closed on 1st March for no payment between....etc
I'm not saying this on any other site. I'm not mentioning any names and it's only image - however on this image is the domain name. !?
Sorry if I picked up something small and not important from your post.
Hope it's more clear!
Thank you very much for your time!
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03-03-2011, 12:20 PM #16WHT Addict
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Thank you!
I think this is what they wish me to do. To deleted and don't claim any money.
The main invoice was send in the end of January and the massage was put there on 1st March. I didn't gave them other 30days. Only after it was quite obvious they would not pay I wait till 1st March to do it.
Right now I said to them the site will be removed or could be transfers after they pay.
Hope I'm not too much messing up here...
Sorry
Thanks a lot!
Regards
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03-03-2011, 12:21 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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Your customer has contacted you and is counter-claiming defamation
However, this would require that you have mentioned their personal name, business name, and/or Domain Name
If you have not done so, then there is no case to answer (the court would just laugh and award the case in your favour)M8 INTERNET : Simple and cost effective website hosting from the UK
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03-03-2011, 12:24 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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Not in the UK, for small claims court a lawyer would not be required
The courts cost is about £50
However, you could employ a lawyer to handle it, but many won't unless they are certain of winning the case (as that would then cover their additional costs)
Large companies rarely proceed to small claims court for amounts of less than £2000
They usually wait until the associated costs have increased the original cost to this amountM8 INTERNET : Simple and cost effective website hosting from the UK
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03-03-2011, 12:25 PM #19WHT Addict
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Thank you my sophisticatedbrother
Hopefully we are right. They are scaring me by saying exactly: "it will cost you more than £300"
I have to say, I'm quite scared (as you could probably say), also ...counting every penny and trying to do honest and good business!
I wish there are no people like this!
Thanks a lot!
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03-03-2011, 12:26 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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03-03-2011, 12:29 PM #21WHT Addict
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03-03-2011, 12:35 PM #22WHT Addict
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Hi m8internet,
the domain name expires in May 2012.
Unfortunately, I have no "Professional Indemnity Insurance". It's about 4years ago when I did it... still at uni... part time freelance job. When I set up the company (Ltd) I start to send invoices from the company.
I'll google the "Professional Indemnity Insurance" to find out what you mean by that.
Thanks a lot!
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03-03-2011, 01:39 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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Presumably they paid for this in May 2010
If not, then disable their account such that a "contact us" notice appears
You would be obliged to keep their files on your server until June 2012
However, with the account disabled they will not be able to access the files and/or email
Personally, I would want to be shot of this customer so advise them to have the new provider contact you, and you will arrange transfer of the Domain Name and files, but only once the Domain Name renewal and reactivation fee has been fully paid
If the customer is convinced they have paid for the renewal in May 2010, then request they provide the receipt reference, PayPal reference, etc they received
Once June 2012 comes then you can delete the files and the Domain Name
If the customer wants to renew it, then they can take the matter up with the providerM8 INTERNET : Simple and cost effective website hosting from the UK
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03-03-2011, 02:01 PM #24WHT Addict
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Great m8i!
I have paid for the domain name in 2010 and it's registered on my name!
The account details are changed and they have no more access to the ftp/cpanel or emails.
The Contact details are removed as well as the Testimonial and Gallery page.
I left the other pages in the place and I add the No Payment Image to Header so it does show on all pages.
I'm happy to leave it like take as long as they don't pay or till the domain name doesn't expire.
---
Personally, I would want to be shot of this customer so advise them to have the new provider contact you, and you will arrange transfer of the Domain Name and files, but only once the Domain Name renewal and reactivation fee has been fully paid
Thank you very much I really appreciate your time!
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03-25-2011, 02:45 PM #25Junior Guru
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Well according to this statement here I wouldn't normally worry about it but as you have mentioned about placing what you did on there site if I read that correctly I dont think I would have done it quite like that Just simply disabling their account to a suspension status would have been sufficient. If the domain name and all were registered through you also you could have kept the dns management locked down and refused to release the epp code if requested until issue was resolved in some way.
If I miss understood you then please try to help me understand the actual situation. Hope this helps you out some and best of luck to youLast edited by Buzz2043; 03-25-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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