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  1. #1
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    VelociRaptor vs. SAS 6 GB/s 7200 RPM

    For a RAID 10 server (4 hard drives), which is going to give better performance ?

    4 x 300GB VelociRaptors (SATA II 10,000 RPM)

    or

    4 x ???GB SAS 6 GB/s 7200 RPM

  2. #2
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    10K will "always" give better performance than 7.2K
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  3. #3
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    You're comparing the fastest SATA drive with the slowest possible SAS drives.
    Velociraptor would be the better choice here, but if you expect to need real peformance you might wanna go for 15000rpm SAS drives in a db machine.

  4. #4
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    The 10Ks will have more IOPs
    6GB/s SAS will have greater bandwidth than SATA 2

    Depending on the density/channel bandwidth, the SAS might win in sequential throughput but thats rarely a bottleneck.

    The 10K SATA 2 would be the higher performance everything else being equal (tho everything else isn't equal SAS has a number of additional features that may tip the balance in their favor).

    And SSD are the right answer when it comes to performance.
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  5. #5
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    I would not recommend using the Veliociraptors, mostly due to reliability.
    Don't get me wrong on this, I'm a big fan of WD products, but I've had at least a 25% failure rate for them. Sometimes they just cause weird issues on servers when they're failing, and don't actually throw errors.

    If you're going to build a fast+important datastore, get SAS.
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  6. #6
    Neither of those options are worth considering. 7k SAS is just extra money without extra performance. Velociraptors are terribly unreliable. The original raptor, and the velociraptor has a terrible failure rate well over 25% in my experience, vs 3% a year on their more typical drives.

    If you want SAS get 10k or 15k. If you want 7k, go with sata.
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  7. #7
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    For reliability reasons, I would use the 7200RPM SAS drives. If you want performance, it would make more sense to get a 10K or 15K SAS drive. The Seagate ST3300657SS, which is a 300GB 15,000RPM SAS drive, costs about $220.
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  8. #8
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    Please can appliedops elaborate on some of the weird issues.

    I've never used a VelociRaptor for anything serious but have had some weird problems and suspected the VelociRaptors.

  9. #9
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    ehoster - I saw an issue where the Velociraptors would cause system crashes, but the drives would check out fine under diagnostics. I replaced the Velociraptors with regular WD500GB-RE3 drives and the box worked totally fine after that.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by affordaservers View Post
    For a RAID 10 server (4 hard drives), which is going to give better performance ?

    4 x 300GB VelociRaptors (SATA II 10,000 RPM)

    or

    4 x ???GB SAS 6 GB/s 7200 RPM
    Which controller are you using for the RAID10? I don't believe those 10k raptors have TLER / are not made for use with hardware RAID controllers. If that's the case any extended timeout will cause the drive to "fail" in the array, increasing your chances of losing the whole array.

    Go SAS 15k RPM seagate (as mentioned above), or if that is not an option go for the SAS you have on offer.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bqinternet View Post
    For reliability reasons, I would use the 7200RPM SAS drives. If you want performance, it would make more sense to get a 10K or 15K SAS drive.
    Exactly, SAS drives are just better in terms of quality and longevity.
    Even if the RPM speed isn't as high, you will probably see better performance anyways.
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  12. #12
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    I normally use the Adaptec 2405 or 5405 RAID cards. What's a good RAID card for SAS 6 GB/s ? I am using this setup for several VMs, either via Citrix Xenserver or SolusVM. I need a good balance of performance and storage space.

  13. #13
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  14. #14
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    See with the 6gb/sec and the Adaptec 5605 you're really upping the budget a ton for possibly no improvement in performance over 4x 3gb/sec 15k rpm SAS with adaptec 2405 (as you said you're doing RAID 10).

    You should really evaluate whether you will see any performance increase, and whether bbu is important you on a non-parity array.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by affordaservers View Post
    I normally use the Adaptec 2405 or 5405 RAID cards. What's a good RAID card for SAS 6 GB/s ?
    Adaptec has a new 6Gbps series now:

    http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/_common/series6/

    The reality is that 3Gbps SAS is more than enough for most servers. IOPs is generally much more important than the maximum linear transfer rate. Especially if you're just using 4 drives, you're not going to max out 3Gbps per drive anyway.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by affordaservers View Post
    I normally use the Adaptec 2405 or 5405 RAID cards. What's a good RAID card for SAS 6 GB/s ? I am using this setup for several VMs, either via Citrix Xenserver or SolusVM. I need a good balance of performance and storage space.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by appliedops View Post
    ehoster - I saw an issue where the Velociraptors would cause system crashes, but the drives would check out fine under diagnostics. I replaced the Velociraptors with regular WD500GB-RE3 drives and the box worked totally fine after that.
    I had similar problems but didn't have time to fully investigate, stopped using them just be sure.

  18. #18
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    Due to the storage space requirements, I have opted to go with SAS 7200 RPM. This should give a comfortable balance of performance and space vs. going with 10K or 15K RPM SAS, or SATA II.

    Using (4) 1 TB drives in RAID 10 yields 2 TB of hard drive space.
    If you go to 8 drives in RAID 10, what happens to the hard drive space you end up with, would it go to 4 TB? And what about 16 drives?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by affordaservers View Post
    Due to the storage space requirements, I have opted to go with SAS 7200 RPM. This should give a comfortable balance of performance and space vs. going with 10K or 15K RPM SAS, or SATA II.

    Using (4) 1 TB drives in RAID 10 yields 2 TB of hard drive space.
    If you go to 8 drives in RAID 10, what happens to the hard drive space you end up with, would it go to 4 TB? And what about 16 drives?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID_10..._of_storage.29

    8 x 1TB in raid10 config = 4TB storage capacity and about 2x IOPS performance capacity comparing to the 4x1TB raid10 array.
    16 x 1TB in raid10 config = 8TB storage capacity and about 4x IOPS performance capacity comparing to the 4x1TB raid10 array.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by gordonrp View Post
    Which controller are you using for the RAID10? I don't believe those 10k raptors have TLER / are not made for use with hardware RAID controllers. If that's the case any extended timeout will cause the drive to "fail" in the array, increasing your chances of losing the whole array.

    Go SAS 15k RPM seagate (as mentioned above), or if that is not an option go for the SAS you have on offer.
    WD does list velociraptors as "enterprise" drives, but the TLER is not enabled when they left factories. thus, you will need to enable TLER manually if you do install them for hardware array, otherwise they will suffer from the same symptom when desktop non-RE drives are used in hardware array.

    WD has announced 1TB/2TB 3.5" 7200rpm SAS-II (6G/s) RAID edition drives (RE SAS) as well:
    http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=580

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by affordaservers View Post
    Due to the storage space requirements, I have opted to go with SAS 7200 RPM. This should give a comfortable balance of performance and space vs. going with 10K or 15K RPM SAS, or SATA II.

    Using (4) 1 TB drives in RAID 10 yields 2 TB of hard drive space.
    If you go to 8 drives in RAID 10, what happens to the hard drive space you end up with, would it go to 4 TB? And what about 16 drives?
    The SAS 7200rpm isn't going to give you any appreciable benefit vs SATA 7200rpm, so for the high price of it, I don't see the point. Certainly if you can get a SAS 7200rpm at the same price as SATA 7200rpm, go ahead, but if it was even 25% more expensive, I wouldn't see much point in it.
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  22. #22
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    If you're going to spend the extra money on SAS, you might as well go for the full 15Ks and get the full benefit of a SAS drive. I really wouldn't worry too much about whether the drive is 3 or 6gbps. IOPs is almost always the bottleneck.
    I'd look at 7.2k rpm sata drives if you need a lot of space or 15k sas if you need speed.
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
    If you're going to spend the extra money on SAS, you might as well go for the full 15Ks and get the full benefit of a SAS drive. I really wouldn't worry too much about whether the drive is 3 or 6gbps. IOPs is almost always the bottleneck.
    I'd look at 7.2k rpm sata drives if you need a lot of space or 15k sas if you need speed.
    Or if you really need more space, and want the same speed as 15k SAS, just get twice as many 7k SATA drives. The cost will be similar, and the speed will be similar, but you'll get a lot more space.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Or if you really need more space, and want the same speed as 15k SAS, just get twice as many 7k SATA drives. The cost will be similar, and the speed will be similar, but you'll get a lot more space.
    Ah, there you go, that is what I was looking for. a good combination of both.

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