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  1. #1

    HostPolar ripped me off (resolved)

    I paid $263.99 to Host Polar on 2/16 for a VPS and a dedicated server for 1 month. The dedicated server was to have 16GB RAM memory. The dedicated server that was provided was only configured with 12GB RAM and after a week of promises to remedy the situation, nothing was done. I sent Host Polar notification of my intent to cancel the services on 2/23 as I had still not been provided what I paid for. They canceled my service but denied my request for a refund citing their Terms of Service. Their Terms of Service states "Payment will be deducted when services are delivered.", yet my payment was deducted and no services were delivered. Stay away.
    Last edited by CD Burnt; 03-02-2011 at 06:33 PM. Reason: OP request

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    I paid $263.99 to Host Polar on 2/16 for a VPS and a dedicated server for 1 month. The dedicated server was to have 16GB RAM memory. The dedicated server that was provided was only configured with 12GB RAM and after a week of promises to remedy the situation, nothing was done. I sent Host Polar notification of my intent to cancel the services on 2/23 as I had still not been provided what I paid for. They canceled my service but denied my request for a refund citing their Terms of Service. Their Terms of Service states "Payment will be deducted when services are delivered.", yet my payment was deducted and no services were delivered. Stay away.
    Technically services were delivered - hopefully you paid via Credit Card if you're planning on charging back because if you paid via PayPal you're going to be out of luck.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Technically services were delivered - hopefully you paid via Credit Card if you're planning on charging back because if you paid via PayPal you're going to be out of luck.
    Inadequate services may have been delieverd, but they were not the services paid for. Regardless of what their TOS says, they don't have a legal claim to my money if they don't provide what was paid for.

    I paid by a bank transfer but I am filing with my local small claims court and will take remedy that way.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    Inadequate services may have been delieverd, but they were not the services paid for.
    I never said that they provided the service fully or as expected. I'm just saying that you can't technically say that they weren't provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    Regardless of what their TOS says, they don't have a legal claim to my money if they don't provide what was paid for.
    I don't know, I'm not a lawyer - if you can't get your money back via a CC chargeback then you would want to speak with an attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    I paid by a bank transfer but I am filing with my local small claims court and will take remedy that way.
    Ah, sounds good - do speak with an attorney though if you haven't already... Many good attorneys will do a free consultation where you can at least get a feel for whether they feel you have a strong case or not.

    Also, depending on where you are based and where the plaintiff is based, you may have to file suit in their locality. It becomes quite tricky with internet issues but in most cases, unless you can claim over $50,000 (a requirement for federal district court), you'll have to file in the county of one of their agents or their principal place of business.... Again - speak with an attorney
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Also, depending on where you are based and where the plaintiff is based, you may have to file suit in their locality. It becomes quite tricky with internet issues but in most cases, unless you can claim over $50,000 (a requirement for federal district court), you'll have to file in the county of one of their agents or their principal place of business.... Again - speak with an attorney

    They're in the same county as me so this will be no problem. Already have consulted my attorney on retainer and was advised to file.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    They're in the same county as me so this will be no problem. Already have consulted my attorney on retainer and was advised to file.
    Good, sounds like you have your ducks in a row. I obviously won't advise you legally as I have no legal training myself.

    Good luck, let us know what happens.
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  7. #7
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    Yes, you should get what you paid for. I think it is quite unprofessional from their end. They could have provided the resolution for the concern rather than denying you refund IMHO. Any way best of luck to get your money back. And update us with the progress.
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    *

    If I were you I would take legal action but not only ask for the amount I pay rather I would ask for an amount that would make them loose sleep and give them psychological stress and remember me for a longer time then they would want to

    Note: Yes you can ask for 10 or 100 times more then you lost as you can claim indirect losses.

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  9. #9
    If you signed up on the 16th and contacted them on the 23rd you should be entitled to a refund for the vps according to their Terms of Service:

    VPS servers are entitled to a 7 day money back guarantee.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Also, depending on where you are based and where the plaintiff is based, you may have to file suit in their locality. It becomes quite tricky with internet issues but in most cases, unless you can claim over $50,000 (a requirement for federal district court), you'll have to file in the county of one of their agents or their principal place of business.... Again - speak with an attorney
    That's not 100% accurate. Depending on what types of clauses they have in their TOS or whatever you signed prior to receiving service is going to be dependent on where you go to court. For example, if you're a business owner in NY, and you sell a faulty product to someone in Dallas, and they bring it to a claims court in Dallas, unless specifically stating that ALL hearings will be held at such and such under New York State Law, then it goes by the way side, and they'd go to Dallas. Contract agreements are upheld in the court in which the contracts were made. Technically speaking, if you clicked the mouse button in Dallas and the services are from NY, Dallas is the place where the contract was entered.

  11. #11
    According to their TOS:

    These Terms and Policies are governed in all respects under the English law.
    However, they does seem somewhat odd considering that their whois shows they are located in New York.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceko View Post
    If I were you I would take legal action but not only ask for the amount I pay rather I would ask for an amount that would make them loose sleep and give them psychological stress and remember me for a longer time then they would want to

    Note: Yes you can ask for 10 or 100 times more then you lost as you can claim indirect losses.

    Good Luck
    Extremely hard to prove and win in court, especailly small claims court where it's up to ~3,000 in most cases.

    However, your legal fees may outweigh your award, which will most likely be a refund. Unless you can specifically quote and show the damages based on what you lost by not getting that extra 4GB and whatever else you ordered and didn't receive, then you won't be able to receive damages in that respect.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnvisionStar View Post
    According to their TOS:



    However, they does seem somewhat odd considering that their whois shows they are located in New York.
    That can be challenged, but to elaborate on my point, if you were located on the East coast of England and the user entered an agreement on the West coast of England, the BUSINESS would have to travel to the West coast in order to settle the dispute. There were no specifics provided, and both the East and West coasts of England are under jurisdiction or English law.

  14. #14
    True, but I wouldn't think that you could be located in one country but use the laws of another country in a binding agreement like your TOS. That is like me being located in Texas but saying that we operate under the laws of Cuba when really we don't.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnvisionStar View Post
    True, but I wouldn't think that you could be located in one country but use the laws of another country in a binding agreement like your TOS. That is like me being located in Texas but saying that we operate under the laws of Cuba when really we don't.
    That's why I said it could be challenged. But again, if you are INCORPORATED under Delaware state law, but HQ'd in Dallas, Tx then you can be tried under either law, but the precedent residign in Delaware where your business is incorporated. Law is truly fascinating.

    I do not think you can cross jurisdictions and be an incorporated US company and operate under British Law though. I'm not an expert. I do know that you can be brought up on charges in a foreign country that you operate in, but I do not think you can operate under a foreign countries law if your business is not international.

  16. #16
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    HostPolar is wrong because they didn' provided the services they promised, but they cant pay you back because you have accepted their terms & conditions at the time of registering the service.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by humawebdesign View Post
    HostPolar is wrong because they didn' provided the services they promised, but they cant pay you back because you have accepted their terms & conditions at the time of registering the service.
    Anytime fraud is involved you're never wrong. When you agree to terms & conditions you are expecting to receive what you purchased...when it's not received it's a break in contract. Therefore the T&C is not valid and is voided. However they can make claims that equal substitutes can be provided if they don't have it in stock. Again though, it has to be of equal or greater value for what you pay.

  18. #18
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    We tried working with this client in every possible way. The client ordered a 16GB Dual Quad Core Xeon server. It was provisioned with 12GB instead of 16GB. This client wanted the server expandable to 32GB RAM, we custom ordered 4 GB DIMM's for his server to be fully expandable to 16GB. Fedex tracking stated Monday for the shipment, we never received them and the shipment was delayed in Memphis. We offered the client a credit, we re-installed the operating system twice, once as Ubuntu was installed as Debian wasn't compatible, then the client corrupted the file system, we re-installed CentOS with Xen kernel, once again for free. We offered the client a free week of service due to the week delay on the RAM upgrade, client declined so we offered a free month. Unfortunately, there is only so much you can do, we offered every possible way to work with this client but, he denied anything offered.

    We have offered the client a refund, and are awaiting his response on how he would like it to be processed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDAnswer View Post
    We tried working with this client in every possible way. The client ordered a 16GB Dual Quad Core Xeon server. It was provisioned with 12GB instead of 16GB. This client wanted the server expandable to 32GB RAM, we custom ordered 4 GB DIMM's for his server to be fully expandable to 16GB. Fedex tracking stated Monday for the shipment, we never received them and the shipment was delayed in Memphis. We offered the client a credit, we re-installed the operating system twice, once as Ubuntu was installed as Debian wasn't compatible, then the client corrupted the file system, we re-installed CentOS with Xen kernel, once again for free. We offered the client a free week of service due to the week delay on the RAM upgrade, client declined so we offered a free month. Unfortunately, there is only so much you can do, we offered every possible way to work with this client but, he denied anything offered.

    We have offered the client a refund, and are awaiting his response on how he would like it to be processed.
    Well that's more than sufficient. Why would he seek legal remedies if you offered a refund? IMO he's just going to waste his money on an attorney, especially if you have this in writing.

    Did you save the tickets/Emails/logs???

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    Well that's more than sufficient. Why would he seek legal remedies if you offered a refund? IMO he's just going to waste his money on an attorney, especially if you have this in writing.

    Did you save the tickets/Emails/logs???
    We weren't going to offer him a refund due to the OS re-installs, custom DIMM order and etc. Under the circumstances, we have offered him a refund as it isn't worth going to court for a simple refund of a dedicated server. We tried working with this client in every way possible, unfortunately he didn't want to work with us any further.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    The dedicated server that was provided was only configured with 12GB RAM and after a week of promises to remedy the situation, nothing was done.
    Steve ... is the last post by JD true. They are saying they provided you remedy options and you were unwilling to work with them?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    Steve ... is the last post by JD true. They are saying they provided you remedy options and you were unwilling to work with them?
    Hi Techy,

    It is very much true, we offered free service but, we understand the clients point of view, he waited over a week to have the full configuration with 16GB of RAM and fully expandable to 32GB. Unfortunately Fedex had a hiccup along the way with sending the DIMM's, Steve went ahead and ordered from another provider to properly support his clients who were interested in his service, we understand that. We would have liked the client to work with us a bit more but situations like this happen, at the end of the day, we will refund the client once he gets back in contact.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDAnswer View Post
    Hi Techy,

    It is very much true, we offered free service but, we understand the clients point of view, he waited over a week to have the full configuration with 16GB of RAM and fully expandable to 32GB. Unfortunately Fedex had a hiccup along the way with sending the DIMM's, Steve went ahead and ordered from another provider to properly support his clients who were interested in his service, we understand that. We would have liked the client to work with us a bit more but situations like this happen, at the end of the day, we will refund the client once he gets back in contact.
    You can't control everything that happens. Unfortunately it didn't work out. At least you're willing to refund him.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    That's not 100% accurate.
    I'm basically just repeating what my attorneys told me when we were looking at pursuing some legal action against a certain individual and also when a certain individual was threatening legal action against us.

    You *can* file anywhere, but it's quite possible that the judge will throw it out or simply tell you that you're in the wrong venue. A TOS is fine and dandy, but if a judge rules that a provision is invalid/doesn't apply/is too strict/etc... It could easily be stricken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    Depending on what types of clauses they have in their TOS or whatever you signed prior to receiving service is going to be dependent on where you go to court.
    It very well could - I won't say you're wrong. I was speaking more generally - having not looked at the terms of service.

    Another example is that if there is a Binding Arbitration clause - all the provider would have to do is present the clause and demonstrate the user agreed to it and any suit would be dismissed in most cases. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so don't take what I'm saying as legal advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    For example, if you're a business owner in NY, and you sell a faulty product to someone in Dallas, and they bring it to a claims court in Dallas, unless specifically stating that ALL hearings will be held at such and such under New York State Law, then it goes by the way side, and they'd go to Dallas.
    It gets a bit trickier than that when you're dealing with virtual services and not tangible goods. When it comes to tangible goods, it definitely would be a lot easier to argue venue towards where the goods were delivered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    Contract agreements are upheld in the court in which the contracts were made. Technically speaking, if you clicked the mouse button in Dallas and the services are from NY, Dallas is the place where the contract was entered.
    I wouldn't say that for sure - after having spoken with several business/contract attorneys about similar issues in the past ... it's not that clear cut and defined.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    Steve ... is the last post by JD true. They are saying they provided you remedy options and you were unwilling to work with them?
    I had left out the intermediate details of OS reinstalls, etc. because they aren't relevant to the issue of a refund. They were just products of bad service which made me have less patience for the 4GB of RAM that was missing (it was actually 6GB missing since 2 of the sticks in the box were bad and not registering.) I didn't order custom 4GB DIMMs, I ordered a 16GB server which I would be upgrading to 32GB in the future. If that required the datacenter to order custom DIMM sticks, then JDAnswer shouldn't have been so pushy every day on AIM "Do you know of a ballpark time of when you'll be ready so I can make sure I have the server ready and etc."

    The OS was reinstalled for free because when I had requested it be provisioned with Debian, I was provided Ubuntu. The second time it was reinstalled for free because my tech corrupted the file system and they wanted to charge me $50/hour for KVM over IP. So when I asked why that fee was so outrageous they offered the second free OS reinstall. I was still under the assumption my box would have 16GB of ram by Monday during those incidents.

    When I made my post yesterday HostPolar had denied my request for a refund, canceled my service, and JDAnswer had blocked me on AIM and stopped replying to emails. I was not offered a refund until after they saw this post, I'm assuming. I have not received any refund yet but will update the post.
    Last edited by EGN-Steve; 02-24-2011 at 10:35 PM.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    I had left out the intermediate details of OS reinstalls, etc. because they aren't relevant to the issue of a refund. They were just products of bad service which made me have less patience for the 4GB of RAM that was missing (it was actually 6GB missing since 2 of the sticks in the box were bad and not registering.) I didn't order custom 4GB DIMMs, I ordered a 16GB server which I would be upgrading to 32GB in the future. If that required the datacenter to order custom DIMM sticks, then JDAnswer shouldn't have been so pushy every day on AIM "Do you know of a ballpark time of when you'll be ready so I can make sure I have the server ready and etc."

    The OS was reinstalled for free because when I had requested it be provisioned with Debian, I was provided Ubuntu. The second time it was reinstalled for free because my tech corrupted the file system and they wanted to charge me $50/hour for KVM over IP. So when I asked why that fee was so outrageous they offered the second free OS reinstall. I was still under the assumption my box would have 16GB of ram by Monday during those incidents.

    When I made my post yesterday HostPolar had denied my request for a refund, canceled my service, and JDAnswer had blocked me on AIM and stopped replying to emails. I was not offered a refund until after they saw this post, I'm assuming. I have not received any refund yet but will update the post.
    What email did you send an email to? We didn't receive any, I'll check now. I have contacted you on how you would like to process the refund. We understand the issues that came along the way with the RAM, I apologized for this and tried to offer a months credit for the issue, we understand you needed to get a box up and running for your clients. We wish you the best of luck.

  27. I find it quite disgraceful that the host wasn't prepared to offer you a refund on a faulty service, which was cancelled. However, legal action will be hard, I would continue spreading the words of caution about the site, and maybe threaten with legal action to get a refund.

    However, I am no lawyer, so consider the possibility of those two acts potentially damaging any case you do have against them.

    Best Regards,
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    Last edited by sirius; 02-25-2011 at 09:22 PM.

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    MikeDVB -

    I was just trying to give you some input. I realize you were speaking in general, and obviously all lawyers have their own input. The argument here is not between you and I, it is with HostPolar and you the client. From an arbitrary perspective I was giving you my knowledge. I'm well aware you can be thrown out of court for venue, which can be defended by either side.

    Every counter argument you posted was "in general" or its "not that clear cut" ... i'm obviously giving Law 101 and guaranteed specifics. All good lawyers find ways to win, no matter if the law is clear cut or not. But sorry if I caused you any grief just trying to give some 3rd party input.

  29. #29
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    We are currently processing the clients refund, will update the thread when completed.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadsterHosting View Post
    I find it quite disgraceful that the host wasn't prepared to offer you a refund
    From the above it seems they are prepared to offer the refund...

    Quote Originally Posted by RadsterHosting View Post
    refund on a faulty service, which was cancelled.
    Not necessarily faulty service. It was more a timing issue and could not provide the goods necessary for the order. Faulty service sounds more to me like the server went online/offline constantly.

  31. #31
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    Client has been refunded.

  32. #32
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    thank you for update.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    thank you for update.
    Not a problem, the OP should chime in here soon and confirm we have refunded him.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by JDAnswer View Post
    Not a problem, the OP should chime in here soon and confirm we have refunded him.
    Got a refund of $200.

  35. #35
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    This just goes to show how different peoples experiences can be. We have had a VPS with Host Poler for nearly a month now and there support and service has been extremely good. We have had no downtime and they have gone out of their way to help us get setup.

    I hope this one unfortunate incident doesn't go against all the good they do
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by akpc View Post
    This just goes to show how different peoples experiences can be. We have had a VPS with Host Poler for nearly a month now and there support and service has been extremely good. We have had no downtime and they have gone out of their way to help us get setup.

    I hope this one unfortunate incident doesn't go against all the good they do
    Thanks for the extra information on HostPolar - JD glad things were resolved and the refund was issued, you did the right thing in my eyes at least.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    Got a refund of $200.

    Glad to hear that.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by akpc View Post
    This just goes to show how different peoples experiences can be. We have had a VPS with Host Poler for nearly a month now and there support and service has been extremely good. We have had no downtime and they have gone out of their way to help us get setup.

    I hope this one unfortunate incident doesn't go against all the good they do
    Thanks for the kind comments akpc. We are glad we are living up to your expectations, we will always do everything and anything possible to help out a client, clients are always the number one priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    Thanks for the extra information on HostPolar - JD glad things were resolved and the refund was issued, you did the right thing in my eyes at least.
    Thanks Techy, we have no reason to hold a clients money and especially for $200. We are glad that we were able to resolve the issue with the OP.

    Have a great day!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by akpc View Post
    This just goes to show how different peoples experiences can be. We have had a VPS with Host Poler for nearly a month now and there support and service has been extremely good. We have had no downtime and they have gone out of their way to help us get setup.

    I hope this one unfortunate incident doesn't go against all the good they do
    According to their website http://www.hostpolar.com/about.htm

    Host Polar was founded in March 2011. Based out of New York, Host Polar has servers in New York City, Dallas and Chicago.
    [Hostegic] [Features: Softaculous | RvSitebuilder | R1Soft backups | LiteSpeed | Cloudlinux | CloudFlare]
    [Location: UK] [Platforms: Linux - cPanel | Windows - WebsitePanel/Plesk]
    [Solutions: Shared Hosting | Reseller Hosting | Virtual Private Servers - Xen/OpenVZ]
    [Guarantees: 24/7 Helpdesk Support | 99.9% Uptime Guarantee | 30 Days Money Back Guarantee]

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGN-Steve View Post
    Got a refund of $200.
    What about the other 63.99? or thats the agreement you guys came to in the end?

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