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02-24-2011, 01:05 AM #1WHT Addict
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HostPolar ripped me off (resolved)
I paid $263.99 to Host Polar on 2/16 for a VPS and a dedicated server for 1 month. The dedicated server was to have 16GB RAM memory. The dedicated server that was provided was only configured with 12GB RAM and after a week of promises to remedy the situation, nothing was done. I sent Host Polar notification of my intent to cancel the services on 2/23 as I had still not been provided what I paid for. They canceled my service but denied my request for a refund citing their Terms of Service. Their Terms of Service states "Payment will be deducted when services are delivered.", yet my payment was deducted and no services were delivered. Stay away.
Last edited by CD Burnt; 03-02-2011 at 06:33 PM. Reason: OP request
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02-24-2011, 01:18 AM #2Web Hosting Industry Expert
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█ Michael Denney - MDDHosting.com - Proudly hosting more than 37,700 websites since 2007.
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02-24-2011, 01:21 AM #3WHT Addict
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Inadequate services may have been delieverd, but they were not the services paid for. Regardless of what their TOS says, they don't have a legal claim to my money if they don't provide what was paid for.
I paid by a bank transfer but I am filing with my local small claims court and will take remedy that way.
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02-24-2011, 01:25 AM #4Web Hosting Industry Expert
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I never said that they provided the service fully or as expected. I'm just saying that you can't technically say that they weren't provided.
I don't know, I'm not a lawyer - if you can't get your money back via a CC chargeback then you would want to speak with an attorney.
Ah, sounds good - do speak with an attorney though if you haven't already... Many good attorneys will do a free consultation where you can at least get a feel for whether they feel you have a strong case or not.
Also, depending on where you are based and where the plaintiff is based, you may have to file suit in their locality. It becomes quite tricky with internet issues but in most cases, unless you can claim over $50,000 (a requirement for federal district court), you'll have to file in the county of one of their agents or their principal place of business.... Again - speak with an attorney█ Michael Denney - MDDHosting.com - Proudly hosting more than 37,700 websites since 2007.
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02-24-2011, 01:27 AM #5WHT Addict
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02-24-2011, 01:29 AM #6Web Hosting Industry Expert
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█ Michael Denney - MDDHosting.com - Proudly hosting more than 37,700 websites since 2007.
█ Ultra-Fast Cloud Shared and Pay-By-Use Reseller Hosting Powered by LiteSpeed!
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02-24-2011, 09:51 AM #7Web Hosting Master
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Yes, you should get what you paid for. I think it is quite unprofessional from their end. They could have provided the resolution for the concern rather than denying you refund IMHO. Any way best of luck to get your money back. And update us with the progress.
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02-24-2011, 10:50 AM #8Disabled
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If I were you I would take legal action but not only ask for the amount I pay rather I would ask for an amount that would make them loose sleep and give them psychological stress and remember me for a longer time then they would want to
Note: Yes you can ask for 10 or 100 times more then you lost as you can claim indirect losses.
Good Luck
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02-24-2011, 11:19 AM #9Disabled
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If you signed up on the 16th and contacted them on the 23rd you should be entitled to a refund for the vps according to their Terms of Service:
VPS servers are entitled to a 7 day money back guarantee.
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02-24-2011, 11:23 AM #10Web Hosting Master
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That's not 100% accurate. Depending on what types of clauses they have in their TOS or whatever you signed prior to receiving service is going to be dependent on where you go to court. For example, if you're a business owner in NY, and you sell a faulty product to someone in Dallas, and they bring it to a claims court in Dallas, unless specifically stating that ALL hearings will be held at such and such under New York State Law, then it goes by the way side, and they'd go to Dallas. Contract agreements are upheld in the court in which the contracts were made. Technically speaking, if you clicked the mouse button in Dallas and the services are from NY, Dallas is the place where the contract was entered.
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02-24-2011, 11:26 AM #11Disabled
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According to their TOS:
These Terms and Policies are governed in all respects under the English law.
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02-24-2011, 11:27 AM #12Web Hosting Master
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Extremely hard to prove and win in court, especailly small claims court where it's up to ~3,000 in most cases.
However, your legal fees may outweigh your award, which will most likely be a refund. Unless you can specifically quote and show the damages based on what you lost by not getting that extra 4GB and whatever else you ordered and didn't receive, then you won't be able to receive damages in that respect.
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02-24-2011, 11:28 AM #13Web Hosting Master
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That can be challenged, but to elaborate on my point, if you were located on the East coast of England and the user entered an agreement on the West coast of England, the BUSINESS would have to travel to the West coast in order to settle the dispute. There were no specifics provided, and both the East and West coasts of England are under jurisdiction or English law.
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02-24-2011, 11:39 AM #14Disabled
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True, but I wouldn't think that you could be located in one country but use the laws of another country in a binding agreement like your TOS. That is like me being located in Texas but saying that we operate under the laws of Cuba when really we don't.
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02-24-2011, 11:42 AM #15Web Hosting Master
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That's why I said it could be challenged. But again, if you are INCORPORATED under Delaware state law, but HQ'd in Dallas, Tx then you can be tried under either law, but the precedent residign in Delaware where your business is incorporated. Law is truly fascinating.
I do not think you can cross jurisdictions and be an incorporated US company and operate under British Law though. I'm not an expert. I do know that you can be brought up on charges in a foreign country that you operate in, but I do not think you can operate under a foreign countries law if your business is not international.
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02-24-2011, 11:46 AM #16Disabled
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HostPolar is wrong because they didn' provided the services they promised, but they cant pay you back because you have accepted their terms & conditions at the time of registering the service.
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02-24-2011, 11:48 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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Anytime fraud is involved you're never wrong. When you agree to terms & conditions you are expecting to receive what you purchased...when it's not received it's a break in contract. Therefore the T&C is not valid and is voided. However they can make claims that equal substitutes can be provided if they don't have it in stock. Again though, it has to be of equal or greater value for what you pay.
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02-24-2011, 01:15 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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We tried working with this client in every possible way. The client ordered a 16GB Dual Quad Core Xeon server. It was provisioned with 12GB instead of 16GB. This client wanted the server expandable to 32GB RAM, we custom ordered 4 GB DIMM's for his server to be fully expandable to 16GB. Fedex tracking stated Monday for the shipment, we never received them and the shipment was delayed in Memphis. We offered the client a credit, we re-installed the operating system twice, once as Ubuntu was installed as Debian wasn't compatible, then the client corrupted the file system, we re-installed CentOS with Xen kernel, once again for free. We offered the client a free week of service due to the week delay on the RAM upgrade, client declined so we offered a free month. Unfortunately, there is only so much you can do, we offered every possible way to work with this client but, he denied anything offered.
We have offered the client a refund, and are awaiting his response on how he would like it to be processed.
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02-24-2011, 01:17 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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02-24-2011, 01:19 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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We weren't going to offer him a refund due to the OS re-installs, custom DIMM order and etc. Under the circumstances, we have offered him a refund as it isn't worth going to court for a simple refund of a dedicated server. We tried working with this client in every way possible, unfortunately he didn't want to work with us any further.
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02-24-2011, 01:23 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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02-24-2011, 01:26 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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Hi Techy,
It is very much true, we offered free service but, we understand the clients point of view, he waited over a week to have the full configuration with 16GB of RAM and fully expandable to 32GB. Unfortunately Fedex had a hiccup along the way with sending the DIMM's, Steve went ahead and ordered from another provider to properly support his clients who were interested in his service, we understand that. We would have liked the client to work with us a bit more but situations like this happen, at the end of the day, we will refund the client once he gets back in contact.
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02-24-2011, 01:30 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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02-24-2011, 02:43 PM #24Web Hosting Industry Expert
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I'm basically just repeating what my attorneys told me when we were looking at pursuing some legal action against a certain individual and also when a certain individual was threatening legal action against us.
You *can* file anywhere, but it's quite possible that the judge will throw it out or simply tell you that you're in the wrong venue. A TOS is fine and dandy, but if a judge rules that a provision is invalid/doesn't apply/is too strict/etc... It could easily be stricken.
It very well could - I won't say you're wrong. I was speaking more generally - having not looked at the terms of service.
Another example is that if there is a Binding Arbitration clause - all the provider would have to do is present the clause and demonstrate the user agreed to it and any suit would be dismissed in most cases. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so don't take what I'm saying as legal advice.
It gets a bit trickier than that when you're dealing with virtual services and not tangible goods. When it comes to tangible goods, it definitely would be a lot easier to argue venue towards where the goods were delivered.
I wouldn't say that for sure - after having spoken with several business/contract attorneys about similar issues in the past ... it's not that clear cut and defined.█ Michael Denney - MDDHosting.com - Proudly hosting more than 37,700 websites since 2007.
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02-24-2011, 10:27 PM #25WHT Addict
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I had left out the intermediate details of OS reinstalls, etc. because they aren't relevant to the issue of a refund. They were just products of bad service which made me have less patience for the 4GB of RAM that was missing (it was actually 6GB missing since 2 of the sticks in the box were bad and not registering.) I didn't order custom 4GB DIMMs, I ordered a 16GB server which I would be upgrading to 32GB in the future. If that required the datacenter to order custom DIMM sticks, then JDAnswer shouldn't have been so pushy every day on AIM "Do you know of a ballpark time of when you'll be ready so I can make sure I have the server ready and etc."
The OS was reinstalled for free because when I had requested it be provisioned with Debian, I was provided Ubuntu. The second time it was reinstalled for free because my tech corrupted the file system and they wanted to charge me $50/hour for KVM over IP. So when I asked why that fee was so outrageous they offered the second free OS reinstall. I was still under the assumption my box would have 16GB of ram by Monday during those incidents.
When I made my post yesterday HostPolar had denied my request for a refund, canceled my service, and JDAnswer had blocked me on AIM and stopped replying to emails. I was not offered a refund until after they saw this post, I'm assuming. I have not received any refund yet but will update the post.Last edited by EGN-Steve; 02-24-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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