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  1. #1
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    Feedback on XO Transit

    Hey guys, looking at a few gigs with XO transit, anyone have a personal experience they would like to share?

    Right now in Cincinnati we utilize Level3 for our 10G primary and looking to pickup a few secondarys.

    Thanks Bros.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  2. #2
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    I have not personally dealt with XO, however the opinions are very divided on the interwebs about XO. There are some who like them and some who really hate them. Dealing with any telco company is not easy.

    I am very curious about them as well, so this thread would really help me and others out. I am actually looking into this myself, as it's been bothering me for about 3-4 years now. I hear that they do support net neutrality, however so that is one good thing about them.
    Something awesome
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  3. #3
    time to get comfy...

    I've *never* heard anyone on webhosting talk say *anything* good about XO. Even generally hated providers have *some* people saying *something* good about them, so I'd love to see someone come in here and say XO is great for them, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    XO is on my **** list.
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  6. #6
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    Perhaps some evidence of why not to get XO could be provided?

  7. #7
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    Search my recent posts, I just got done explaining why XO is garbage in another thread.

  8. #8
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    Regardless of the service issues, they are also the most costly provider that we polled at the moment for full gigabit ports, by a substantial margin.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
    AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
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  9. #9
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    All I could say is that, we have had xo for 10 years without a flicker.
    IPStrada When uptime counts.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusai View Post
    All I could say is that, we have had xo for 10 years without a flicker.

    That's what I want to hear, I don't care if the BW has higher latency than other carriers, it's not going to be our primary, we will use it as a last resort failover.

    They seem to be the only carrier around that has a decent pipe besides level3.

    I've called, GlobalCrossing,Abovenet, Savvis and HE. HE had the best pricing by far, $4/mbit and $1200/mo for a GigE but they don't have service here YET, its on their roadmap the rep said...

    Anyone else worth my time that may have lines in Cincy??

    Hoping for more good feedback on XO.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    Hoping for more good feedback on XO.
    I'm surprised you got any.

    From what I've heard, the biggest problem is with the company itself, moreso than the bandwidth. Plenty of nightmares to be found on WHT if you search for "xo" regarding contracts, customer service, billing, etc.
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  12. #12
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    I'm not worried about contracts and billing...

    I want to know if the network is stable.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    That's what I want to hear, I don't care if the BW has higher latency than other carriers, it's not going to be our primary, we will use it as a last resort failover.
    Why would you have multiple providers and local pref the crap out of a single one? Do you plan on announcing routes to both of your providers at once, or only in the event of an outage with the primary?

    In any event, here is an example of XO's quality. Here in Denver, nearly all of their outbound routes went through Chicago, for years, even though their network map indicated links to Dallas and LA as well. It appears that they have made some improvements in this area recently -- for example, tracerouting to softlayer actually goes through Dallas, the fact of the matter is that the on-going, long term nature of all traffic going from Denver to Chicago indicates a significant lack of engineering talent or engineering talent that is completely hamstrung by other business/policy limitations.

    Also, as a former consumer of InterNAP IP services, which utilized XO based transport services, I can say that XO transport services were offline frequently and for retarded reasons. Homing redundant links to the same line card, tech causing fiber kink that breaks fiber jumper, etc, etc.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
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  14. #14
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    Sigh, now your scaring me away...
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    Sigh, now your scaring me away...
    I can say my experience in the past involving XO mirrors Jay's.

    When working for a global software company we used XO for private site-site transport and for internet circuits in some locations. Interruptions were frequent and routing was often sub-par and the *same* issues would occur frequently. As a company there was little concern for our issues as a client, SLAs were not upheld, billing disputes were frequent.

    All in all we had a poor relationship.

  16. #16
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    Friends dont let friends buy XO

    we have had xo for 10 years without a flicker.
    That evokes a Joe Wilson response

  17. #17
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    Don't forget the billing. It's more nightmarish than even Telx's ;-)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cresci View Post
    Don't forget the billing. It's more nightmarish than even Telx's ;-)
    You know, TelX has been sending us bills for nearly the last year that have a NEGATIVE balance, they have a credit I cannot get them to apply to our account, it shows ($400) every month, It's annoying but at least they aren't hounding us for money. LOL

  19. #19
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    BAHHHH TwTelecom wants $45/Mbit... and he is saying that's the *best* they can do.... Ridiculous.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    BAHHHH TwTelecom wants $45/Mbit... and he is saying that's the *best* they can do.... Ridiculous.
    I too recently had a quote in that ballpark. Their pricing is better on 24 - 36 month commitments. Still pretty high.
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  21. #21
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    They wan't to form a partnership with us to *save us more* now to... I told them they need to be in the $20/Mbit ball park to get us. I don't mind paying a little extra for them to be the failover.

    Sigh...
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    They wan't to form a partnership with us to *save us more* now to... I told them they need to be in the $20/Mbit ball park to get us. I don't mind paying a little extra for them to be the failover.

    Sigh...
    It may be worth talking to a wholesaler to see if you can get a better rate, on a gigE port they should be able to do under $15 without an issue. Then again... are you trying to commit to only like 10/Mbps? If that's the case then I can see >$20/Mbps easy.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
    Interruptions were frequent and routing was often sub-par and the *same* issues would occur frequently. As a company there was little concern for our issues as a client, SLAs were not upheld, billing disputes were frequent.

    All in all we had a poor relationship.
    And my experience mirror's yours.

  24. #24
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    how about Qwest?
    Something awesome
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  25. #25
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    BAHHHH TwTelecom wants $45/Mbit... and he is saying that's the *best* they can do.... Ridiculous.
    Are they onNet in your building? If so, that pricing is seroiusly out of line. I'd be happy to send you details for my rep. twtelecom definitely places a premium on their network, but I'll put it this way - back in the day, we only paid them $30/Mbps for 100Mbps over gigabit and they had to do a build into our facility.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
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  27. #27
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    We use time warner cable in Cincinnati and we have been happy with them. One of the few providers we could get to build out into our site with a pretty low commit. Obviously twcable doesnt really compare to xo or level 3, but im guessing they would be competitive on price, and plus this would get you on their backbone to lots of home cable modem users which may be an advantage to you.

  28. #28
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    time warner cable and twtelecom are two entirely different companies ...
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
    AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    time warner cable and twtelecom are two entirely different companies ...
    I guess the confusion is understable considering they just changed their name from Time Warner Telecom to twtelecom a few years ago I think.

  30. #30
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    XO used to be horrendous, but have gotten their act together a bit in the past couple years. Network has always been rock solid for us, but their billing/custserv used to be the worst---but that seems to have been rectified lately. Still, they are not competitive on transit at all, but reasonably priced on transport.
    .
    .

  31. #31
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    Network was bad in LA, frequent issues. We tried XO several times over the years and now they are in our permanently banned list.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    Network was bad in LA, frequent issues. We tried XO several times over the years and now they are in our permanently banned list.
    Did you guys use them back at AR?
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    time warner cable and twtelecom are two entirely different companies ...
    I know this. Sorry if i wasnt clear enough in my post for others to realize this. Guess i shouldnt have said twcable

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    Did you guys use them back at AR?
    IIRC, AR might have started using XO but that was after I left in 2007, so I can't speak for the experience there.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    Hoping for more good feedback on XO.
    Keep hoping, but don't hold your breath. I'll jump on the dogpile with another "stay far away from XO" comment.

    My experience with their sales team was the worst of any business, in any industry, I've every dealt with. The word incompetent doesn't tell even half the story of my experience with them. Their network has regular outages-- not those which affect a single group of circuits in a POP, but "national routing issues". Fiber paths are long and winding, with higher latency the result. I've posted other rants about XO here at WHT as well, so I won't repeat myself here.

    Word of advice, learn from the misery of others and forget about XO if you're at all concerned about a quality trnaist provider-- or your sanity.

  36. #36
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    Yeah were more interested with twtelecom now, they just dropped 100Mbit commit on Gig for $15/Mbit and it became much more clear they want to do business.

    We can afford to eat that provided their network is strong, from what we've used it at our Peak10 location it is a good solid core.

    They are buying us lunch next week.. see what we can do!'

    Thanks everyone
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  37. #37
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    Good luck with TWTC and let us know how it goes!
    Something awesome
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    BAHHHH TwTelecom wants $45/Mbit... and he is saying that's the *best* they can do.... Ridiculous.
    Maybe I missed this answer, but $45/Mbps on what commit? I was recently quoted 1/3 that price on a 100 Mbps.

    EDIT: Oops, Visbits answered that part.

    Re. TWTC quality, my experience with them was very positive-- with the disclaimer that it's been mid-2000's since I last used them directly. We had a full 100M at their Tampa POP and reliability was great.

  39. #39
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    We've never had any trouble with twtelecom's network.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
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  40. #40
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    I'm rather excited now that I've further ran the numbers and it looks like we will be able to run a full BGP pool with them without any concern.

    Now to find a 3rd provider down the road.. I'm really hoping we can get HE.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

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