Results 1 to 34 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Bangladesh
    Posts
    2

    What does cloud hosting mean?

    Hey, I am totally unknown to the topics cloud computing, cloud hosting. Will anyone make it clear to me, please?

  2. #2
    Cloud computing just means your data/applications are all hosted on the web, instead of on your computer or by using installed software. Data storage and management are located on distant servers.

  3. #3

    What Are The Differences?

    Cloud computing seems to have created a completely new world for us all on the planet. But I am still totally confused about the whole thing though. I hope to be enlightened about it soon.

    In what way does Cloud Hosting differ from normal hosting?

    eg.

    1)Will one still be able to run any application one chooses, or is one restricted to use only those codes provided by the cloud host? In other words, can one upload any scripts (eg js, php, asp)like now?

    2)Other differences, if any.

    Thank you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,143
    The way I see cloud - cause its really not a word that can be totally defined imo.. - is that you have the resources you need at the moment available, but you also have the amount of resource you need in peak times available.. You dont need to upgrade to a bigger box just cause your site grew from 1000 users to 5000 users.. you just add capacity (whether it be storage, cpu, or bandwidth) to "your" cloud server..

    Another thing is... you ONLY pay for what you use like cpu time.. if your server is running idle 90% of the time.. you pay almost nothing for that time..
    Last edited by mazedk; 02-15-2011 at 08:33 PM. Reason: addition to post

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    While the utility billing method was common for Cloud earlier on, it's not really that popular for production environments. Most business on the Internet is commonly gauged and some level of trending is known. Pricing also is more advantageous for a provider to offer in a more fixed scenario.

    The services are still on-demand, and can be increased in a moments notice (scalability) but it helps a provider with trending and therefore the end-user pricing when some level of commitment is reached. This in turn results in lower prices for a customer.

    It's important to note that Cloud is an infrastructure, ie: IaaS. So the applications and platforms on Cloud can be the exact same as that on traditional hosting. If they are a particular service, then that becomes SaaS (ie: salesforce.com).

    Cloud in it's purest sense will be sold to companies as IaaS to give you, the customer, the raw resources and features available to Cloud such as scalability, redundancy, ease of management, location independence (which does not need to be geo-redundant, but just not tied to a single server), and in some cases per hourly or daily utility billing.

  6. #6

    * Cloud Hosting Advantage

    Quote Originally Posted by amiabledeveloper View Post
    Hey, I am totally unknown to the topics cloud computing, cloud hosting. Will anyone make it clear to me, please?
    With cloud hosting your site instead of being hosted on single servers keeps like we have with our traditional hosting services (Dedicated/Shared hosting), the website will have access to multiple servers.

    Cloud hosting provide scalability and is cost effective

    The site upgrade can be done easily with cloud hosting as the data gets switched between servers.

    One more great advantage with cloud hosting is that we are working with a pay per use plan as per the computing power consumed.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    988
    Cloud computing is a buzzword, there is no substance behind the name.
    For the most part, its basically another name for having virtual servers.
    The big secret to cloud computing is that its basically insecure and expensive.
    Virtual machines have virtually no real security, and there have been plenty of exploits available to break out of the virtual machines and get access to the other ones.
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
    www.appliedops.net

  8. #8
    I've been wondering this too..
    Last edited by Jync; 02-17-2011 at 06:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by JimDuncan View Post
    Cloud hosting means that your site is hosted by multiple servers and the servers may sometimes be located in different locations
    It doesn't mean that at all, if you have one "instance" aka virtual machine, its only located in one datacenter. If that instance goes down, you're down. If you have more than one instance, and one instance goes down, you're still down because you don't have a loadbalancer. In order to achieve uptime, you need global loadbalancing and a properly architected system. The "cloud" will not help you get better uptime...

    The "cloud" also can't optimize for network performance, mostly because your individual instances are located in specific datacenters. You need loadbalancing to accomplish any sort of network performance optimization or you need to control the network, in which case you would not be using "the cloud".
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
    www.appliedops.net

  10. #10
    I guess I'm completely wrong

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by appliedops View Post
    Cloud computing is a buzzword, there is no substance behind the name.
    For the most part, its basically another name for having virtual servers.
    The big secret to cloud computing is that its basically insecure and expensive.
    Virtual machines have virtually no real security, and there have been plenty of exploits available to break out of the virtual machines and get access to the other ones.
    Quoting for preservation.

    A few years ago Cloud was a buzzword, although now it is becoming widely adopted and it is becoming a standardized way of computing. What else is on the list of buzzwords? Bandwidth, Ajax, Blog, CMS, Virtualization... and even Freedom! Wow.. that's kind of scary actually.

    I don't know about you but I know what they all mean, and the Cloud standard although the newest of those words I just listed, is still being defined. NIST started to define it several years go, and the US Government is now widely adopting it across ALL Government agencies. There's a lot of substance to Bandwidth, Ajax, Blog, CMS, and Virtualization as well.

    <<snipped>>

    Exploits? I've seen so many exploits through the years for for Windows, just about every *NIX variant, and independent software that writing off "Cloud" for exploits is like writing off driving cars your whole life because once you heard that a friend of yours got into an accident driving another make and model, in another state. Everything has had exploits, and the level of security has drastically improved in recent years especially for certain platforms, and with native hardware support you could argue that the memory sharing, or network sharing across any customer on any shared platform is a problem according to your theory but yet the shared web hosting business accounts for the majority of all web hosting in the world, by far. To state "virtual machines basically have no real security" is rather gutsy so please elaborate on exactly what you're talking about, what technology, what hypervisor(s), and what level of "insecurity" across one customers environment to another are you talking about.

    And For the enterprise clients, private clouds offer that same non-shared feel just like a traditional server cluster.
    Last edited by bear; 02-17-2011 at 10:10 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by appliedops View Post
    It doesn't mean that at all, if you have one "instance" aka virtual machine, its only located in one datacenter. If that instance goes down, you're down. If you have more than one instance, and one instance goes down, you're still down because you don't have a loadbalancer. In order to achieve uptime, you need global loadbalancing and a properly architected system. The "cloud" will not help you get better uptime...

    The "cloud" also can't optimize for network performance, mostly because your individual instances are located in specific datacenters. You need loadbalancing to accomplish any sort of network performance optimization or you need to control the network, in which case you would not be using "the cloud".
    Actually, the most widely adopted definition of Cloud is that it is location independent. That does not necessarily mean geo redundant, but location independent does mean that the computing resources and hosting environment is not tied to a single, physical server.

    Also to state "to achieve uptime you need global load balancing" is very misleading. Why do you think Data Center's go down so much? What about carrier-neutral Data Center's like we're in? We haven't ever had a Data Center outage in the 8+ years we've been in Equinix. Any outages we've faced have been at levels below that and have nothing to do with the Data Center.

    The Cloud will help you get better uptime, that's a key feature of Cloud is increased reliability. That is commonly done by the fact the services are redundant. Ie: If it is just a single instance then that instance is immediately and automatically restarted on another available server. That DOES increase uptime.

    "Network performance optimization" is a very vague set of terms and on a technical level just by enabling jumbo frames on a simple layer 3 switch could "optimize the network performance" of a particular network. Again, why does this have to be done "outside" of a single Data Center?? I think what you're trying to refer to is geo redundancy and other things.. but I don't want to start bringing other "buzzwords" into the picture.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudWeb View Post
    The Cloud will help you get better uptime, that's a key feature of Cloud is increased reliability. That is commonly done by the fact the services are redundant. Ie: If it is just a single instance then that instance is immediately and automatically restarted on another available server. That DOES increase uptime.
    Comparing apples to apples, lets say we have a simple N+1 setup on the dedicated server side and a N+1 on the cloud. How does it increase uptime / reliability?

    Honestly, you make it sound as though we weren't able to achieve any good uptime before the cloud came along and made our lives sunnier.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    Comparing apples to apples, lets say we have a simple N+1 setup on the dedicated server side and a N+1 on the cloud. How does it increase uptime / reliability?

    Honestly, you make it sound as though we weren't able to achieve any good uptime before the cloud came along and made our lives sunnier.
    Well I'm not sure how we can compare Cloud to Traditional that simply and say it's apples to apples. That's like saying let's compare trains to airplanes and if there's N+1 on both how does that increase uptime and reliability of trains vs airplanes? It's a loaded question and not really relevant to my point,but I do see your point still. Non-cloud does not have to be non-reliable, we've been doing it far longer traditionally than with Cloud and the Cloud is just a different way to do things and I believe it's inherent in the definition of Cloud, that it does increase reliability in the nature of it.

    My comment was made in response to this one:

    In order to achieve uptime, you need global loadbalancing and a properly architected system. The "cloud" will not help you get better uptime...

    And in that context, my earlier reply was meant to respond to that statement.

    But again yes, great uptime and reliability can very much be achieved without Cloud, but you don't need global load balancing and a properly "architected" (whatever that is) system to do it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,193
    The problem with buzzwords like cloud are that people think they are the end all solution to all of their problems. While I can see the advantages of using a cloud service, I can also see the disadvantages and choose not to, cost being the primary reason.
    Sam Barrow - CEO @ SQUIDIX (1-855-SQUIDIX)
    Ask Us About Sponsoring Your Web Site (High Traffic Sites Only)
    Squidix - Shared, Reseller, Semi-Dedicated, Managed VPS and Managed Dedicated Hosting
    Midwestern Web - Web Design & Development Services

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
    The problem with buzzwords like cloud are that people think they are the end all solution to all of their problems. While I can see the advantages of using a cloud service, I can also see the disadvantages and choose not to, cost being the primary reason.
    You're right, nothing in this world is the end all solution to all of their problems.

    However, I know for a fact many companies who were/are on traditional platforms with a lot of hardware, are going Cloud to about 1/3 of the original hardware, with increased reliability and decreased hosting costs. That is the general trending in hosting as is innovation in general, wouldn't you agree?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,193
    I'm sure some have had success with it, but for my needs it would be much more expensive than what I pay now. However that is based on pricing from cloud providers like Amazon and GoGrid. I haven't looked at deploying my own cloud, that's something I'm still considering for the future.
    Sam Barrow - CEO @ SQUIDIX (1-855-SQUIDIX)
    Ask Us About Sponsoring Your Web Site (High Traffic Sites Only)
    Squidix - Shared, Reseller, Semi-Dedicated, Managed VPS and Managed Dedicated Hosting
    Midwestern Web - Web Design & Development Services

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudWeb View Post
    You're right, nothing in this world is the end all solution to all of their problems.

    However, I know for a fact many companies who were/are on traditional platforms with a lot of hardware, are going Cloud to about 1/3 of the original hardware, with increased reliability and decreased hosting costs. That is the general trending in hosting as is innovation in general, wouldn't you agree?

    And when those companies get back up to 100% (planned) utilization, said cost savings are gone.. and that's when they realize it was cheaper to buy the hardware. There are just as many stories about people moving their cloud apps back onto those same machines they just sold and spill over the rest back onto the cloud.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
    I'm sure some have had success with it, but for my needs it would be much more expensive than what I pay now. However that is based on pricing from cloud providers like Amazon and GoGrid. I haven't looked at deploying my own cloud, that's something I'm still considering for the future.
    Yes Amazon is not meant for scaling. The platform was originally built as a burstable development and pre-production environment, not meant to host large complex clusters on it. The pricing definitely is not advantageous for large installations.

    Private Clouds can be built very cost effective and if you take your time with the research, you may be surprised at how cheap it can be...

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,193
    The cloud is great for flexibility, but as with anything in life you'll usually save money in the long run by throwing down the money upfront.
    I'm not an expert on total cost of ownership for cloud vs dedicated, this is just what I've seen from my personal experience. I know as a shared host, I can save thousands by sticking with the traditional setup with a number of dedicated servers.
    Sam Barrow - CEO @ SQUIDIX (1-855-SQUIDIX)
    Ask Us About Sponsoring Your Web Site (High Traffic Sites Only)
    Squidix - Shared, Reseller, Semi-Dedicated, Managed VPS and Managed Dedicated Hosting
    Midwestern Web - Web Design & Development Services

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    And when those companies get back up to 100% (planned) utilization, said cost savings are gone.. and that's when they realize it was cheaper to buy the hardware. There are just as many stories about people moving their cloud apps back onto those same machines they just sold and spill over the rest back onto the cloud.
    It depends how much redundancy is inherent in the infrastructure. For example, complex WISA applications with SQL redundancy can be costly just on licensing, but Cloud can improve redundancy above the OS so saving some licensing costs.

    BTW for larger customers who can own their own hardware, nothing is stopping them from a Private Cloud. That's basically what I was referring to before...

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudWeb View Post
    Yes Amazon is not meant for scaling. The platform was originally built as a burstable development and pre-production environment, not meant to host large complex clusters on it. The pricing definitely is not advantageous for large installations.

    Private Clouds can be built very cost effective and if you take your time with the research, you may be surprised at how cheap it can be...
    Well that's one situation where I could see it being an advantage, but you have to be at a pretty large scale make it worth it. Most people who run around talking about the cloud are talking about EC2.

    I know people who will swear by EC2, but they're running steady operations, no need for the burstable features. I try to point out to them that they're paying about 3 times what they could by running their own server or servers, but they just seem to like the word cloud too much.
    Sam Barrow - CEO @ SQUIDIX (1-855-SQUIDIX)
    Ask Us About Sponsoring Your Web Site (High Traffic Sites Only)
    Squidix - Shared, Reseller, Semi-Dedicated, Managed VPS and Managed Dedicated Hosting
    Midwestern Web - Web Design & Development Services

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
    The cloud is great for flexibility, but as with anything in life you'll usually save money in the long run by throwing down the money upfront.
    I'm not an expert on total cost of ownership for cloud vs dedicated, this is just what I've seen from my personal experience. I know as a shared host, I can save thousands by sticking with the traditional setup with a number of dedicated servers.
    I would say that depends on your hosting business, the complexity of it and the services you offer, your infrastructure, SLA, and many other variables. Each business is unique in this.

    For some companies it is cheaper to stay away from both virtualization and Cloud. But Cloud also introduces a level of simplicity in the environment, ease of management both hardware and software level, and will drastically reduce your need for engineering (employment) both local and remote, SLA payouts to customers with less "emergencies", and other things. When cost structuring all things must be considered in a business, not just the cost of your commodities as if you only consider commodities then that will rarely come out ahead with today's Cloud licensing requirements and costs.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
    Well that's one situation where I could see it being an advantage, but you have to be at a pretty large scale make it worth it. Most people who run around talking about the cloud are talking about EC2.

    I know people who will swear by EC2, but they're running steady operations, no need for the burstable features. I try to point out to them that they're paying about 3 times what they could by running their own server or servers, but they just seem to like the word cloud too much.
    Less servers than you think.. but it will depend on the application and it's requirements.

    Yes, EC2 is by far the largest Cloud platform, so unfortunately among the laymen it's spoken about like GoDaddy is to web hosting that it is "the" Cloud solution. And it is not the cheapest either (unlike GoDaddy. lol).

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,193
    I would say that depends on your hosting business, the complexity of it and the services you offer, your infrastructure, SLA, and many other variables. Each business is unique in this.
    I'm not even saying it wouldn't be cheaper for me to not set up a cloud, just not at the scale I'm at right now.
    I'm simply referring to the people who jump on EC2 because they use the word cloud. Everything has its pros and cons.

    For some companies it is cheaper to stay away from both virtualization and Cloud. But Cloud also introduces a level of simplicity in the environment, ease of management both hardware and software level, and will drastically reduce your need for engineering (employment) both local and remote, SLA payouts to customers with less "emergencies", and other things. When cost structuring all things must be considered in a business, not just the cost of your commodities as if you only consider commodities then that will rarely come out ahead with today's Cloud licensing requirements and costs.
    This is what makes me want to look at it for future expansion, the consolidation of my fairly disconnected infrastructure into a more centralized setup.
    Sam Barrow - CEO @ SQUIDIX (1-855-SQUIDIX)
    Ask Us About Sponsoring Your Web Site (High Traffic Sites Only)
    Squidix - Shared, Reseller, Semi-Dedicated, Managed VPS and Managed Dedicated Hosting
    Midwestern Web - Web Design & Development Services

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    934
    Definitely look at it. Despite my hawking on CloudWeb here there are so many ways one can setup a cloud to meet your needs. Just keep in mind that with the cost-savings listed above, you should tack on extra engineering to actually support your apps properly on a cloud.

    Case in point is Amazon's non-existent SLA on an EC2 instance. It's a different failure mode and rate than most devs are used to dealing with. Recovering gracefully is not a trivial matter.

    And yes, you can build a more reliable cloud with heftier machines, but you need to be careful your costs don't invert.

  27. #27
    Cloud computing is Internet-based computing, whereby shared resources, software and information are provided to computers and other devices on-demand, like electricity.

  28. #28
    Cloud hosting is Internet-based computing, whereby shared resources, software and information are provided to computers and other devices on-demand

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudWeb View Post
    A few years ago Cloud was a buzzword, although now it is becoming widely adopted and it is becoming a standardized way of computing.
    Its still a buzzword, its just a more popular buzzword.

    NIST started to define it several years go, and the US Government is now widely adopting it across ALL Government agencies.
    Except for agencies that require security or work on national security issues. That should be a big red flag for everyone right there.

    To state "virtual machines basically have no real security" is rather gutsy so please elaborate on exactly what you're talking about, what technology, what hypervisor(s), and what level of "insecurity" across one customers environment to another are you talking about.
    Its not gutsy, its just fact. Right now there are exploits available for the Xen and VMWare hypervisor products (probably more that I don't know about), they allow for guest OSes to break into the manager system and thusly adjoining virtual machines. Even if you only break into the manager system, you can then dump out the memory/disk image of the other VM's in the system. This would be bad for lets say - people who process credit cards, or use HTTP/S because it would render those transactions insecure.

    Am I saying it'll never be fixed? no. But its not fixed right now, so you can't expect any degree of security.
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
    www.appliedops.net

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by appliedops View Post
    Its still a buzzword, its just a more popular buzzword.



    Except for agencies that require security or work on national security issues. That should be a big red flag for everyone right there.



    Its not gutsy, its just fact. Right now there are exploits available for the Xen and VMWare hypervisor products (probably more that I don't know about), they allow for guest OSes to break into the manager system and thusly adjoining virtual machines. Even if you only break into the manager system, you can then dump out the memory/disk image of the other VM's in the system. This would be bad for lets say - people who process credit cards, or use HTTP/S because it would render those transactions insecure.

    Am I saying it'll never be fixed? no. But its not fixed right now, so you can't expect any degree of security.
    I've not heard of that exclusion, what's your source? I am however personally aware of agencies who are very much involved with our national security who are actively working towards Cloud migrations so I would be curious to hear more of what you're talking about to determine how valid this "red flag" is.

    The last exploit that a domU could get into dom0 (xen) was over 2 years ago, and also was not running on modern (virtualization enabled) hardware. Please post your source on this claim as well.

  31. #31
    Hi all! It is really very nice to be a part of such kind of discussion. It was very informative for me. Although i also do not know much about cloud hosting except the fact that cloud hosting can be taken as internet based computing service in which users are provided the shared online access of applications, softwares and data as well. They do not need to share the application in there local computer. It is that type of internet hosting in which user uses the virtualized and dynamically scalable infrastructure located at a distant location as they need of them. Cloud hosting is based on the Cloud computing technology in which unlimited number of machines to act as one system. Other hosting solutions (shared or dedicated) depend on one machine only, while cloud hosting security is guaranteed by many servers. Cloud technology also let you to integrate the extra resources like space and RAM. Cloud hosting has certain benefits as
    1. Level of performance of a website will improve definitely as multiple machines will work together.
    2. Server resources will be shared like CPU, RAM.
    3. Lower pricing due to shared nature and no point of failure.

  32. #32
    Cloud computing is a term used for using virtual machines to scale up and down as needed. There are many tasks which require much processing power and which can also be distributed to several computers to be computed in parallel. This is where the cloud helps because you can fire up as many machines as you want and quickly shut them down when you're done. You pay for the exact processing power that you need (you don't need hugely powerful and thus hugely expensive computers) and you get the job done as quickly as possible because it's computer in parallel by many machines simultaneously.

    Cloud computing is not to be confused with other forms of virtualization such as VPS/VDS. They are very similar and use the very same virtualization technology but the big difference is that VPS/VDS does not scale up and down dynamically. In the cloud you can fire up 100 virtual computers now and shut them down an hour later and then fire them up again tomorrow. With VPS/VDS you pay monthly for the number of virtual machines that you ordered.

    This is why cloud hosting doesn't make much sense unless you have a site which really requires massive dynamic scaling. However many people host their sites in a cloud environment because the cloud marketing teams do such a great job in creating and promoting the cloud hype. If you just have a "normal" website you're better off with one or several VPS/VDS or maybe a dedicated server if you're site really gets a lot of traffic (and money). You'll get it much cheaper this way.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    India
    Posts
    1,446
    when a website is hosted on cloud hosting it is is opearting on multiple connected servers.Instead of one or limited to a single server like what we get in other hosting services like dedicated or shared hosting, those website now has the access to multiple servers. so virtually, the processing power is unlimited for cloud hosted as you can always add a new server and scale up.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    934
    ...Cloud hosting is when you have an architecture* so freakishly complex for the layman to understand, that it's easier to just call it a cloud.



    * there are more types of cloud architectures with differing levels of SLA and performance than there are clouds over Seattle.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-15-2010, 04:05 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-04-2010, 01:34 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-14-2010, 09:31 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-16-2010, 02:20 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-19-2010, 12:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •