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Thread: Linode Terrible
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02-07-2011, 01:28 AM #1Junior Guru
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Linode Terrible
Up until last night I loved linode. I had amazing uptime, great ticket responses and no problems at all.
I'm in Dallas for the superbowl, during the superbowl I met a bunch of other techies in the webhosting industry. One of the sites I host is dontdatethisbitch.com. I went back to the hotel and wanted to show the site that I had been preaching about all night to these guys. I tried to go to the site, no go... I tried to go to my other customer websites.. nothing.
So i logged in to see if for some reason my vps might be having issues, which is rare. I saw a big red sign DISABLE FOR ABUSE TICKET.
The abuse ticket read this;
Abuse Department.
It has come to our attention that you are hosting defamatory content regarding Comedienne Shayma Tash on your network, located at http://www.dontdatethisbitch.com/sha...commedian.html
We will be taking legal action against the owner of the domain and request that you disclose the account owner at this point as a sign of good faith. We are aware that you may be unaware of the content hosted on your network.
If you do not immediately remove the defamatory content from http://www.dontdatethisbitch.com, and notify us in writing that you have done so, we will have no choice but to pursue legal action against you. We require the defamatory content to be removed and written notice given that such has been removed, by no later than February 15th, 2011.
I have been in the webhosting industry for over 10 years now, and this just really made me mad. I've never had a complaint about this customer, but one person sends in one thing threatening legal action and LINODE DISABLE MY ENTIRE CONTAINER. Btw, check the date feb 15th.. Today is the 6th.
Anyways, I kept my cool and called up to Linode to speak to a rep. I talked "Tim". Tim was very VERY rude and knew nothing about DMCAs or the legal right to take down content. Tim told me that they had a court order to take down my site based on this content. I know better than this and asked for the letter to be forwarded to myself, he could not do that. After being in the industry for so long, I realized that Tim might not be as knowledgeable as someone in their security department. I then asked to be transferred to a manager or security department... GET THIS, there was no one else available.. Tim kept repeating this and refused to even get me to his supervisor. Tim finally turned my ENTIRE vps back on, and I got my customer to remove the content. I lost a lot of customers due to this because they SHUT DOWN THE ENTIRE CONTAINER based on one complaint (not legal).
So if you're looking for a vps provider, don't use Linode if ANYONE complains about ANYTHING on your site, they will shut down your entire business.
It's not like other websites where if I ask for the owner or a supervisor they can transfer me at any time.
This is really horrible and I can't wait to get my stuff transferred.
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02-07-2011, 01:38 AM #2Disabled
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It looks you got the issue resolved?
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02-07-2011, 01:46 AM #3Junior Guru
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02-07-2011, 02:02 AM #4Web Hosting Evangelist
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Your site has defamatory(libelous) content. If I was Linode I would have shut you down.
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02-07-2011, 02:09 AM #5Web Hosting Evangelist
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Did they not give you any opportunity to remove the offending content? Was it an immediate suspension?
Exceptional VPS Hosting. With love, 6sync.
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02-07-2011, 02:10 AM #6Web Hosting Guru
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I am just surprised that you are still able to run adsense on such content.
FancyPocket.sg - Fashion Accessories and Phone Decoration
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02-07-2011, 02:12 AM #7Junior Guru
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02-07-2011, 02:14 AM #8Junior Guru
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02-07-2011, 02:15 AM #9Web Hosting Master
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I can understand your frustration, however, given they said they had a court order handed to them to remove the content, it's either they shut down your server or they'll face legal consequences themselves while waiting for you to respond. It could very well be that they received this court order after the initial complaint and email to you which stated the 15th to remove content. It really looks like they had their hands tied and is a lose-lose for everyone involved.
Besides, they've actually given you the benefit of the doubt by stating they understand the site might not be yours but your client's. Your statement about preaching the site to your colleagues shows the site belongs to you, no? If so, you should know better than to host defamatory content.
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02-07-2011, 02:23 AM #10Junior Guru
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If there is a court order, wheres it at? It's related to my customers company, why can't they send it?
Also did you see the letter, it was from a lawyer not a court order. Court order, I understand.. Shut that site down, but all my customers? One NON legal notice, shut down entire vps?
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02-07-2011, 02:32 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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Wait, you said you haven't seen this "court order" because Linode would not release it, but yet you've seen a "letter" from a lawyer? Which one is it?
Something a lot of people need to understand is that the responsibility of content hosted is on you. They don't know who's using the server as a personal development platform or who's using it to host sites for clients as a business. They have to act on complaints and the only way to do that is to give you a warning and/or suspend your server as a whole. It's not their job to go inside your server to shut down one site that has gotten a complaint. It's your job.
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02-07-2011, 02:38 AM #12Junior Guru
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I saw the letter that Linode pasted to me, which was not a court order. The tech on the phone said they received a court order but would not forward it. Other hosting companies forward the complaint to the customer and let them decide what they should do as it does not have any effect on their business. It is up to the customer.
Once again< i had no problem contacting my CUSTOMER to get this removed, however shutting down my entire business is wrong.
I understand that we are not going to see eye to eye, you are right in your mind, i am right in mine. The only thing i'm saying is that this should have been a legal document to shut down their site, not my vps, and it was neither.
Someone sent in a complaint, and they shut the entire business down because of that. Not just the site.
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02-07-2011, 02:42 AM #13Junior Guru
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Linode is an awesome company, I think they are great. Best VPS hosting around.
This is my experience with them though, and I will be a Linode customer for a long time. This is just what happened to me, if you have a complaint against a site you host... They will shut your entire vps down.
Think of it this way, what if you have 100 customers on a shared server.. And one has a complaint, you shut the entire thing down?
Anyways i'm done, this was handled very badly (customer service wise) ..
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02-07-2011, 03:52 AM #14Newbie
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You said "is that the responsibility of content hosted is on you." Exactly, and that means that they shouldn't get involved and shut down websites that someone complains about but allow me to deal with it. If I get sued for whatever reason that shouldn't be their problem, they pass along the information and inform the sender that they are not liable and to talk to the owners (in this case the OP). The OP is the one in trouble and if he leaves up something that might be libelous that is his problem. That is something that his lawyers and the sender and their lawyers to work out, not Linode (or any hosting company).
Although OP you did have a decent amount of time to respond saying you will pass it along or whatever. I've known a lot of hosting companies to suspend first and ask questions days later...
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02-07-2011, 03:59 AM #15Junior Guru
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Basically, I got suspended for a non legal issue. If there is a court order ok, a DMCA ok. My business was taken down due to a complaint from a person. Thats all there is to it. And THEN I couldnt speak with any supervisor or manager about this.. They were not available. at 11pm on a Sunday. No Supervisors? Customer service?
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02-07-2011, 04:16 AM #16Web Hosting Master
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02-07-2011, 08:07 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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That kinda comment makes you sound like a serial complainer or someone who starts the conversation with a support rep, "let me speak with your manager." :p
Ya know, in many cases like this you're not transferred to a "supervisor" you're handed off to someone else at the same level sitting next to the previous person you spoke with. In many cases someone who won't accept an answer from a support rep, is fine hearing the exact same line from a "manager".
IMHO, if management and owners have the time to be transferred and answer every upset customer's call, they are doing something wrong.
That said, I do understand your frustration of getting a run around or conflicting information from a support rep. But, you have to know your content is controversial and runs the risk of this happening.
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02-07-2011, 09:08 AM #18Web Hosting Evangelist
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There's almost no host that I could think of that would go through client files to handle a complaint, especially an unmanaged host. You also mentioned you did get a notice about this 2(?) days ago, and missed it so you didn't act on it. While the timing I'm sure is very frustrating, I don't really see how this makes Linode terrible.
I also wanted to say that while I know some people like phones, their support in my experience works much better through tickets.
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02-07-2011, 10:59 AM #19Retired Moderator
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What seems to be forgotten is the OP agreed to their terms of Usage, which I have included below:
Linode.com reserves the right to suspend network access to any customer if, in the judgment of the Linode.com network administrators, the customer's server is the source or target of a violation of any of the other terms of service or for any other reason which Linode.com chooses. Linode.com will use reasonable care in notifying the Customer and in resolving the problem in a method resulting in the least amount of service interference. Linode.com reserves the right to terminate service without notice for continued and repeated violations of the terms of service. If inappropriate activity is detected, all accounts of the Customer in question will be deactivated until an investigation is complete. Prior notification to the Customer is not assured. In extreme cases, law enforcement will be contacted regarding the activity. The customer will not be credited for the time the customer's machines were suspended.
There is no way an unmanaged (or even managed unless it was requested by the client) provider would disable certain portions or edit configs of their server - that is the client's responsibility.Last edited by RSkeens; 02-07-2011 at 11:04 AM.
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02-07-2011, 11:02 AM #20Web Hosting Master
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What I meant to convey was that it's not Linode's responsibility to shut down individual clients you may have. Think about it, how would they know that you're using the server to host clients as a business? They don't. They could be your personal sites. Yes, they're ultimately responsible for all content hosted on their servers and if one of them is hosting something against their TOS, the entire server will be suspended. Think from their perspective, if they do not act, they will be held liable. If you were Linode, would you wait for days for your client to respond to a complaint and possibly face legal trouble?
As others have noted, the OP also clearly KNEW of the site and the content it contained, as he was "preaching" about it all night to his buddies.
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02-07-2011, 11:10 AM #21Web Hosting Master
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I do agree with RSkeens, the OP agreed to the TOS in this. I'm also curious to know what type of customers he's going after when his big attraction is talking up then showing them this website (which means you're fully aware of the content).
Having said that I really think a company like Linode should wait more then 2 days before cancelling an entire account. There is no reason why they could not just kill the one website if they needed to take immediate action. "Linode.com will use reasonable care in notifying the Customer and in resolving the problem in a method resulting in the least amount of service interference". People have lives and sometimes responses get delayed.
I recently had one customer that for whatever reason kept getting hacked (or giving away their passwords as a door prize) in a short time frame. The first time it happened I was away for an extended weekend camping with no connectivity so I was not able to respond in a timely manner. I had this person's sites on two hosts and they both handled this situation like professionals with out taking down my entire VPS.
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02-07-2011, 11:53 AM #22Web Hosting Master
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I sure as heck wouldn't. Not without a court order.
What if the claim itself was invalid? The "claim" only states that they were considering legal action, not that any had been taken or is in the process of being pushed through the courts.
Taking the law into your own hands can come back on you in a very negative way very quickly -- especially when you don't have a clear understanding of the law. Receiving a claim doesn't instantly mean it's legal or valid.█ Matthew Rosenblatt, and I do lots of things.
█ Used to be a full time server administrator, now I help build cruise ships and inspect homes.
█ My company, Ferrell Solutions, specializes in home inspections and property management.
█ RecallScan is a service for monitoring appliances and vehicles in your home for recalls.
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02-07-2011, 11:55 AM #23Retired Moderator
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That site is going to get complaints over and over. I wouldn't host it but that isn't here nor there.
You admit you got 2 days notice but as you were out of town and didn't have anyone else minding your business so nothing was done. So after 2 days notice to give you a chance to correct the issue, Linode shut you down. They are not going to go through your sites as an unmanaged provider. Really if they had logged in and removed content would you have liked that?
What did you expect?
If you sent your client a notice about something and got no response for 2 days what would you do?CloudNexus Technology Services
Managed Services
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02-07-2011, 02:45 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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02-07-2011, 02:59 PM #25Disabled
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If I was an ambulance chasing lawyer, I would troll your site for perspective clients. Your site is a legal mess just waiting to happen and an insult to "free speech" that our founding fathers fought for.
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