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  #1  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:30 PM
jameshsi jameshsi is offline
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Cloud service in your brand ?


Hi!
Is there a cloud service that can be run in your own brand name and you can customize the user front to your language ?

Below is what I need:

I rent the cloud service from that service provider.
I can then customize the control panel, and brand in my own brand.
My client buy cloud service from my site.
Thu API I can automatically order what my clients need.
My client login and manage their cloud service.
I charge my client based on my price.



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  #2  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:46 PM
vpsdeploy vpsdeploy is offline
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Hi, by the moment SolusVM panel dont provide a direct reseller interface, then, we need wait...

But all client accounts created with SolusVM are able use the API functions, then if you know how to create your own scripts with the API youre able to check any SolusVM partner to implement your cloud reseller infra.

King regards.

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  #3  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:50 PM
jameshsi jameshsi is offline
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Haha, I know solusvm, but I thought it is not really "cloud", it just vps.

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  #4  
Old 12-14-2010, 12:17 PM
boskone boskone is offline
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I know dediserve.com offer such a solution, and have a module for WHMCS and Hostbill

  #5  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:40 PM
nibb nibb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshsi View Post
Haha, I know solusvm, but I thought it is not really "cloud", it just vps.
You obviously dont know the difference because VPS is just to say a virtual environment, and absolutely all clouds are virtualized. Amazon = Xen, Google = Xen, Rackspacecloud = Xen, Gigenet = Xen

So yes, most of the clouds are Xen which are virtual environments or also Virtual Private Server = VPS

The only difference is they would use SAN storage and have a metered model based on usage.

If you mean a highly resilient and clustered cloud, I only know Amazon and Google have that and maybe a few more, only the biggest ones, and you will not be able to brand them unless you are able to spend a couple thousands, make that millions probably.

  #6  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:55 PM
bsolaris bsolaris is offline
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High availability is a key difference.

With a VPS if the server that hosts the VPS goes down, then you don't have a VPS anymore.

If your VPS is hosted on an applogic cloud or something similar and the server that hosts your VPS goes down, then applogic automatically brings your VPS back up on a different server.

  #7  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:09 PM
nibb nibb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsolaris View Post
High availability is a key difference.

With a VPS if the server that hosts the VPS goes down, then you don't have a VPS anymore.

If your VPS is hosted on an applogic cloud or something similar and the server that hosts your VPS goes down, then applogic automatically brings your VPS back up on a different server.
Thats all very nice in theory but most cloud providers are just simple VPS accounts with a metered model. Maybe a fancy SAN which is a benefit or not. Example, Gigenet I tested them and in 60 days they where down several hours. Total uptime was like 90%, why? SAN problems. VPS.NET had also terrible problems with their open-e iscsi software.

Rackspace was terrible then where on the VmWare platform. They are not on Xen and it seems things are better.

Usually a SAN means a single point of failure and its not a very expensive SAN you will have more troubles then just being on a single node.

What you all forget as well is that in order to be truly HA they need to reserve your VPS environment on a second servers, which usually increases cost allot. So based on this, most they have a SAN storage and thats it, if there is a hardware problem on your node, they will not migrate you automatically no another one which would costs allot of money. They can but the cheaps ones usually dont have a second box just for your. That would mean having double hardware for almost anything.

So its all nice in papers and design but in reality only a very expensive cloud is going to get you a superb uptime and even so Amazon had downtimes as well and they are for sure the biggest and most stable of all of them.

What you also need to take into account is that most of the downtimes are actually caused by software and not hardware, so if you MySQL servers fails, or your apache crashes, a cloud is not going to help you either. From personal experience you can get this days a whole better uptime on single good servers or good VPS on very solid nodes then on the current cloud offerings. This may or not change in the future but its currently like it is. The benefits of cloud is mainly pay only for what you use and of course the scalability.

A cloud setup is not very expensive, a maybe a few thousands to start but a very solid one costs a fortune, and they are not the cheapest out. Also they will not allow branding, who would? If you spend millions on a new technology you dont want others offering it on their brand either, and its like you will have hard time selling it either. If the OP asks for branding he will only get cheap VPS clouds with a nice API on it which are more or less VPS servers.


Last edited by nibb; 12-14-2010 at 02:12 PM.
  #8  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:17 PM
bsolaris bsolaris is offline
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You should go readup on applogic, owned by CA now, it's good stuff. I run a small applogic cloud and the only downtime I ever have is either network related or scheduled.

Applogic is built on Xen, it always keeps user data (VPS info) on at least 2 servers. So if 1 server dies, it just starts it up on another server.
Sure it costs a little bit more then using standalone Xen but it isn't astronomical.


Last edited by bsolaris; 12-14-2010 at 02:27 PM.
  #9  
Old 12-14-2010, 04:39 PM
boskone boskone is offline
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A lot of the 'first generation' cloud providers don't understand the ratios and requirements of compute and storage, and how the cloud model changes everything (it removed the ability to oversell for a start).

Done correctly, with enterprise servers and SAN, the cloud is the future of all hosting services.

  #10  
Old 12-14-2010, 04:45 PM
eming eming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boskone View Post
A lot of the 'first generation' cloud providers don't understand the ratios and requirements of compute and storage, and how the cloud model changes everything (it removed the ability to oversell for a start).

Done correctly, with enterprise servers and SAN, the cloud is the future of all hosting services.
You are so VERY right...I normally present it like this: http://ditlev.dk/snitch/2010-12-14_2044.png - cloud hosting is like only being able to fit 400 seats in a 500 seat jet. And if you are used a business plan based on shared hosting or virtuozzo based overselling, then you'll probably get a bit of a shock

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  #11  
Old 12-14-2010, 04:48 PM
Jacob Wall Jacob Wall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eming View Post
You are so VERY right...I normally present it like this: http://ditlev.dk/snitch/2010-12-14_2044.png - cloud hosting is like only being able to fit 400 seats in a 500 seat jet. And if you are used a business plan based on shared hosting or virtuozzo based overselling, then you'll probably get a bit of a shock
Nice analogy, D.

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  #12  
Old 12-14-2010, 04:51 PM
boskone boskone is offline
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You are exactly right. Customers also don't understand that to sell 1GB of RAM, the host really needs something like 1.2-1.5 depending on a few other factors!

All that flexibility, HA and 'clever stuff' that makes a cloud a cloud, means that, while the platform is very efficient and manageable, it simply doesn't compare apples with apples with cheap dedicated, vps or shared.

Compare 4GB of 'burstable' ram on an openvz/virtuozzo style VPS, with 4GB RAM on an onapp powered cloud for example.

The first 4GB could be literally sold to 20 other customers who will all compete for it as needed, the onapp 4GB is a fixed, allocated, 100% guaranteed amount.

If the provider has a node with 48GB of ram and they sell 45GB of VM's - then that node is 'very full'.

I love your slide though Ditlev, says what I am preaching much more eloquently

  #13  
Old 12-14-2010, 04:58 PM
nibb nibb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boskone View Post
A lot of the 'first generation' cloud providers don't understand the ratios and requirements of compute and storage, and how the cloud model changes everything (it removed the ability to oversell for a start).

Done correctly, with enterprise servers and SAN, the cloud is the future of all hosting services.
Why is that? Virtualization exists for years now. Cloud is just clustered and metered, and well.... Google decided to promote the world "cloud" like something amazingly new and impressive. I like the CEO of Oracle when he makes fun about cloud.

Clustered services, even SAN storage has existed for years, the metered model may be somehow new. What im interested is why do you think its the future of the Internet? You mean like when Amazon the biggest cloud provider in the world, kicked WikiLeads? Imagine if there exists only 3 or 5 cloud providers in the world, we all depend on them for being hosted as opposed to now, having millions of hosting companies available which promotes competition and fairness.

Dont get me wrong, cloud is amazing, but I dont think its the future, neither its for everyone. Some people will benefit from it allot, others dont, others will find it completely useless.


Also PLEASE, PLEASE dont mention Virtuozzo when I was talking about virtualization. I dont consider Virtuozzo or OpenVZ to be virtualization at all. I consider it to be a chrooted OS, its shared hosting and nothing more. Virtuozzo is not real virtualization and its not even considered as so in the virtualization market. And this is why probably (thanks to Virtuozzo) so many customers had bad experiences with virtualization and thing the cloud is going to solve it. Because most provides using that piece of crap software oversell all resources to the point its no better then a low shared hosting environment.

I would consider Xen and Vmware to be virtualization enviroments, that virtualize the hardware truly, from inside the chip (Intel) to the storage, where normally you get fully dedicated resources. This is why we dont see Virtuozzo clouds either and I hope for the best of mankind we never see.


I dont understand that image with the jets anyway. What does that have to do with the technology? Its the provider that oversells or undersells.

I can buy the latests hottest servers in put 10 shared hosting clients on there in have a huge better performance then someone on a oversold VPS node.

The same can be said for the cloud. Actually the SAN storages can be oversold ratter very fast and quickly. The problem is that cloud providers have invested huge in hardware and resources, and they are not filled up yet. But people are not stupid. Companies want their money back. Servers running costs money and they will for sure try to fill up the resources in the best possible way. That means, you can BET on it, that there will be oversold clouds with more clients they can support. Everything can be abused, even network. Funny the image cames from someone that just did exactly that with their network and had to kick one of their major clients in order so other clients dont suffer. So I dont think its the best model for overselling-underselling either. No offense but those are facts.


Last edited by nibb; 12-14-2010 at 05:09 PM.
  #14  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:01 PM
boskone boskone is offline
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There is room for lots of cloud providers.

Every datacentre, dedicated server company, shared hosting provider, VPS provider in the world right now will be running from a cloud platform in the next 3 years. It's inevitable.

Physical kit and bespoke architectures will retreat back to the high end niche it already is becoming.

In my view it is the maturation of an industry that is still only 10-15 years old (web hosting) and an inevitable on and one I invite.

  #15  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:27 PM
boskone boskone is offline
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My point is that with a proper cloud it's not -possible- for the host to oversell.

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