Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Hosting : Mail server necessary?

[SoLost]

Sorry for the cross-post. I posted this in the specialty hosting forum, but I'm not sure if that was the right place.

I will be launching a group buying website (like Groupon), and I will have my site hosted on a managed VPS. As you may already be aware, the way these group buying sites work is that an email is sent each day to all of the subscribers, which is usually in the thousands or even 10s of thousands (heck, even more for some). I was planning on simply sending out all the emails through my VPS. However, I noticed that a lot of my competition is using MailChimp or Constant Contact to send out their daily emails.

Is there a reason for this? I am not a technical person, so I'd really appreciate if someone can please enlighten me on this topic. These services can get expensive in a hurry, so I'd like to skip them if I don't need them. Thanks!

[Mark Grover]

People use mail sending services for delivery purposes. Having a properly set up mail server and a trusted IP is huge for companies that depend on their emails actually being delivered to the recipient and in a timely manner.

Building up IP reputation can take time and some of these companies that specialize in sending emails already have built up a nice pool of reputable IPs that you can use.

One company that comes to mind is sendgrid.

[SoLost]

Originally Posted by Mark Grover

People use mail sending services for delivery purposes. Having a properly set up mail server and a trusted IP is huge for companies that depend on their emails actually being delivered to the recipient and in a timely manner.

Building up IP reputation can take time and some of these companies that specialize in sending emails already have built up a nice pool of reputable IPs that you can use.

One company that comes to mind is sendgrid.

Thanks Mark. With all that said, do you think I can get away with using my own server (using a VPS with a dedicated IP) to send out my emails? Or is there a strong possibility that I will end up on spam lists?

[tulaweb]

Originally Posted by SoLost

Thanks Mark. With all that said, do you think I can get away with using my own server (using a VPS with a dedicated IP) to send out my emails? Or is there a strong possibility that I will end up on spam lists?

If every single user to whom you are sending email has requested that you send them the type of email you are sending them, you have confirmed every single one of those requests, and you can prove all of the above, you can use your own server. BUT If you suddenly start sending thousands of emails a day from an IP address that was not previously known to send large amounts of mail, you will look very suspicious to the receiving systems. If you are starting out small, gradually building up your membership, and you keep the list squeaky clean, you can do your own mailings.

[Mark Grover]

Originally Posted by SoLost

Thanks Mark. With all that said, do you think I can get away with using my own server (using a VPS with a dedicated IP) to send out my emails? Or is there a strong possibility that I will end up on spam lists?

It depends on the volume of mail you will be sending and the specs of your server. I would also strongly recommend signing your outgoing mail (dkim) along with having the proper SPF records set up.

All your emails should have a clear option for users to opt out. You want to try and prevent them from marking your emails as spam as much as possible.

You also need to manage your list properly. If an email bounces, do NOT resend to that address again.

[SoLost]

Originally Posted by tulaweb

If every single user to whom you are sending email has requested that you send them the type of email you are sending them, you have confirmed every single one of those requests, and you can prove all of the above, you can use your own server. BUT If you suddenly start sending thousands of emails a day from an IP address that was not previously known to send large amounts of mail, you will look very suspicious to the receiving systems. If you are starting out small, gradually building up your membership, and you keep the list squeaky clean, you can do your own mailings.

The nature of the business is such that it is viral in nature, so the mailing list can grow very quickly. I'm concerned about what you're saying because I'm currently just building up my mailing list. So when the site launches completely and there's a deal available, I may very well be suddenly sending an email to thousands of users (isn't this what happens for most site launches?)

When you say that I have "confirmed every single one of those requests," does that mean I need a double opt-in/confirmation? Right now, once they enter their email address the first time, they're added to my list. Will this be a problem? What can happen?

Someone previously told me that I should look into RDNS, Domainkeys, and SPF records. Would this be sufficient?

Thanks for all your help.

[Patrick Diaz]

MailChimp is pretty good, and the analytics are great. One factor that hasn't been mentioned is CRM integration. More expensive products that come with a mail server appliance can integrate with CRMs, so you can provide variations in messaging based on user purchase or interaction history. For e-commerce lists over 100K this starts to make a lot of sense. I see no reason you can't start with MailChimp and if you're site takes off, consider something more advanced.

[tulaweb]

Originally Posted by SoLost

The nature of the business is such that it is viral in nature, so the mailing list can grow very quickly. I'm concerned about what you're saying because I'm currently just building up my mailing list. So when the site launches completely and there's a deal available, I may very well be suddenly sending an email to thousands of users (isn't this what happens for most site launches?)

When you say that I have "confirmed every single one of those requests," does that mean I need a double opt-in/confirmation? Right now, once they enter their email address the first time, they're added to my list. Will this be a problem? What can happen?

Someone previously told me that I should look into RDNS, Domainkeys, and SPF records. Would this be sufficient?

Thanks for all your help.

If you don't do confirmed opt-in, how do you know who's typing in the email addresses? What percentage are typos? Even if you use a third party email system that will get you in trouble. You not only need to do it, you need to prove that you've done it, with some kind of unique key, keeping records of IP addresses etc. All it takes is a competitor entering a few spamtrap addresses to get your IP on a black list, or get you kicked off your mailing service. If you operate your own mail server, you absolutely need to make sure your RDNS Domainkeys, and SPF records are set up correctly, but nothing will get you past a list that isn't perfectly clean.

[TheMule]

Originally Posted by SoLost

Sorry for the cross-post. I posted this in the specialty hosting forum, but I'm not sure if that was the right place.

All of this informationa and much more was posted on the other thread ... why are you coming here and asking the same question?

Everyone who took the time to help you just wasted their time.

[Mark Grover]

Originally Posted by tulaweb

If every single user to whom you are sending email has requested that you send them the type of email you are sending them, you have confirmed every single one of those requests, and you can prove all of the above, you can use your own server. BUT If you suddenly start sending thousands of emails a day from an IP address that was not previously known to send large amounts of mail, you will look very suspicious to the receiving systems. If you are starting out small, gradually building up your membership, and you keep the list squeaky clean, you can do your own mailings.

Sending high volume of emails is perfectly fine. Its actually encouraged if you want to have a good reputation. You just need to make sure you are sending to legitimate email addresses and to people that have opted in.

check out senderscore.org for more details

[SoLost]

Originally Posted by tulaweb

If you don't do confirmed opt-in, how do you know who's typing in the email addresses? What percentage are typos? Even if you use a third party email system that will get you in trouble. You not only need to do it, you need to prove that you've done it, with some kind of unique key, keeping records of IP addresses etc. All it takes is a competitor entering a few spamtrap addresses to get your IP on a black list, or get you kicked off your mailing service. If you operate your own mail server, you absolutely need to make sure your RDNS Domainkeys, and SPF records are set up correctly, but nothing will get you past a list that isn't perfectly clean.

Well, here's the weird thing. None of my competition (both small and new, and massive and well established) is using a confirmed opt-in. For this group buying model, it seems like it's the standard to not have it for some reason. Any idea why this is?

[SoLost]

Originally Posted by TheMule

All of this informationa and much more was posted on the other thread ... why are you coming here and asking the same question?

Everyone who took the time to help you just wasted their time.

Huh? The other thread I posted has no replies.

[tulaweb]

Originally Posted by SoLost

Well, here's the weird thing. None of my competition (both small and new, and massive and well established) is using a confirmed opt-in. For this group buying model, it seems like it's the standard to not have it for some reason. Any idea why this is?

The only explanation I can imagine is they don't care if their email gets delivered, or if they get a reputation for sending spam.

[Mark Grover]

Originally Posted by SoLost

Well, here's the weird thing. None of my competition (both small and new, and massive and well established) is using a confirmed opt-in. For this group buying model, it seems like it's the standard to not have it for some reason. Any idea why this is?

Don't you enter your email address when signing up at Groupon?

[tulaweb]

Originally Posted by Mark Grover

Don't you enter your email address when signing up at Groupon?

The question is do they send a confirmation email to which you must reply. The OP says they don't. I find that surprising, but I don't know first hand.