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11-27-2010, 11:30 PM #51WebHosting Master
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That's not racism. Look up the definition.
According to Merriam-Webster,
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Secondly, Turnkey acknowledges that they don't believe all Turkish are frauds, but they simply have an experience of high fraud rates in your country.
Are you practicing "racism" as well when you avoid Nigerian hosting companies due to the high fraud rate?
Stop childishly using such words to create a theater out of a small issue.
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11-27-2010, 11:35 PM #52WebHosting Master
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Turnkey has all rights to take the procedures it feel necessary before doing business with anyone.
You do not have the right to the service of a company.
Similarly, you can choose NOT to do business with Turnkey and reject their terms.
PayPal's payments are not trustable because they do little to verify you.
Most of their "verified" users in fradulent countries use gift cards or the like to verify themselves, and little is done to verify their name/addresses nor credit rating. CCs at least verify your address and credit rating.
This is not ignorance.
Those who claim otherwise (rely on PayPal!) are the ones truly ignorant.
And to those who claim that "if you don't trust PayPal, don't use them", the issue is that PayPal is convenient and is a good form of payment provided the user is not fraudulent.
That's why companies still accept them, but they do their own external fraud checks.
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11-28-2010, 11:47 AM #53Web Hosting Master
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11-28-2010, 02:18 PM #54Junior Guru Wannabe
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11-28-2010, 02:22 PM #55Junior Guru Wannabe
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You certianly are... Merchants can require photo id for all credit card purchases. Even if the credit card has your photo on it. They can also require that if your billing address is different on your card than your id that you provide proof of your current address.
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11-28-2010, 02:38 PM #56Web Hosting Master
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[GB ≠ GiB] [MB ≠ MiB] [kB ≠ kiB] [1000 ≠ 1024] [Giga ≠ gram] [Mega ≠ milli] [Kelvin ≠ kilo] [Byte ≠ bit]
There is no millibit. There is no gram-bit. There is no Kelvin-Byte.
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11-29-2010, 01:44 AM #57Web Hosting Master
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I am sometimes living in Indonesia and I bought some server years ago with Gigenet and Staminus. They did require me to send credit card photo and ID card. I asked them why, and they politely explain it to me. And now, I am long term customer of Staminus since 2004.
For me this is harsh, even maybe when I order and company says it is about Indonesia(even I am not completely Indonesian) with same words, that is hurt. The sales should be more politely explain the situation even that country has HUGE FRAUDER.
Explain with a "sorry" word will be better even you never did wrong.© www.hostinginside.com AS9678 √
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11-29-2010, 03:47 AM #58Junior Guru Wannabe
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I am so sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your statement is lacking in correctness.
Merchants can ask for your ID at anytime. Even after the transation is approved (of course if they decide to decline the transaction they would have to run a reversal). They can even keep your card if you fail to produce ID when requested. And get this ... the credit card companies will even give the clerk who does it a cash reward!
One thing to remember .. your credit card does not belong to you, it belongs to the financial institution that issued it. I don't mean VISA or Mastercard I mean the bank that is putting up the money when you use the card.
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11-29-2010, 04:46 AM #59DigitalPunchCardMaker
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11-29-2010, 06:23 AM #60Web Hosting Master
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Maybe Turnkey does not like anyone from Turkey because the country name is very similar to their company name. Remove the N from turnkey and they become Turkey
Turnkey has every right to ask for documents to establish ID. They can ask for his passport, or a machine issued id {if passport is hand written} like drivers license, some form of permits anything that verfies the photo and the name etc. They can ask for utility bill or bank statement paper that shows name and address to verify the address and name. They can even ask him to stand in front of some monument in Turkey{country} holding the daily newspaper showing date/time and his ID and a even a live turkey{bird} in another hand to verify his name, id, photo, address, location.
OK, even a credit card with numbers or the cv2 blacked out is also reasonable.
But asking for full front and back scan of the credit card, and a form to sign that grants them the right to whatever charges they want to add on the card is a lot for a payment already paid using PayPal..
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11-29-2010, 12:41 PM #61Web Hosting Master
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Nope. The merchant agreements are quite clear about it. If a person presents their card, and the card swipes, the merchant is not allowed to refuse the sale, at risk of losing their "license" to accept those cards. They can ask for ID until they're out of breath, but the purchaser has zero obligation to provide that ID. Now, if it doesn't swipe, they can choose to refuse the sale (or say "we'll have to refuse your card unless you provide some ID"), since the card might be fake.
[GB ≠ GiB] [MB ≠ MiB] [kB ≠ kiB] [1000 ≠ 1024] [Giga ≠ gram] [Mega ≠ milli] [Kelvin ≠ kilo] [Byte ≠ bit]
There is no millibit. There is no gram-bit. There is no Kelvin-Byte.
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11-29-2010, 03:35 PM #62Web Hosting Master
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You don't need a license to accept credit cards. You need a merchant account and a bank account, that's it.
And yes you can request photo id. If they do not present it, you don't have to accept the card.
I really hope I misread this post, or it was made out of context. This is some really bad information.
No merchant is obligated to accept a payment or conduct a sale if they have reason to believe the sale is not legit. PERIOD!!!█ Jeremy Kinsey (jer@mia.net) - 262-248-6759
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11-29-2010, 04:58 PM #63Web Hosting Master
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No credit card company or processor is obligated to pay a merchant for products that the CC-holding individual may not pay them back for, either. Hence, the merchant must agree to certain policies in order to accept payments from the companies/banks that issued those worthless pieces of plastic.
[GB ≠ GiB] [MB ≠ MiB] [kB ≠ kiB] [1000 ≠ 1024] [Giga ≠ gram] [Mega ≠ milli] [Kelvin ≠ kilo] [Byte ≠ bit]
There is no millibit. There is no gram-bit. There is no Kelvin-Byte.
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11-29-2010, 05:48 PM #64Junior Guru Wannabe
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You are correct .. Myself and all those who said otherwise are wrong.
I did some checking (I read my Merchant Agreement) And it clearly states that you may not refuse to accept the card if it gets approved during the authorization proccess and you can not refuse to attempt to get it authorized. You may ask for ID but you cannot refuse a transaction if the customer refuses to provide one.
(Now you may require ID if they are buying something like cigs, or booze or getting a prescription - but this doesn't have anything to do with the credit card).
If the Credit Card company has reason to believe it is a fraudlent transaction they will tell you not to accept the card and possibly instruct you to keep it (this is what must have happened to me when I got the cash reward).
Instead of copying my Merchant Agreement I used "The Google" and found this link. I am sure that there are others.
http://www.privacyrights.org/ar/Alert-FS15.htm
petteyg
FYI - If the card gets approved you will get paid ... The credit card company assumes the liability.Last edited by TheMule; 11-29-2010 at 05:53 PM. Reason: adding comment
The Mule
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11-29-2010, 06:13 PM #65Web Hosting Master
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This assumes the card holder is in front of you. When that card is NOT in your possession, you have every right to require a signature and photo proving that the person is who they say they are.
Almost 14 years requesting a photo ID, and the very VERY few times anyone has had a problem was because they were NOT the card holder.
Has anyone on this list ever been to Vegas? You cannot make a purchase with a CC without showing your ID, PERIOD.
You of course have the right to refuse to show an ID, and the merchant has the right to refuse to sell you anything.
I've yet to see anyone challenge the legality. Again, the people who have an issue with this problem in my experience are generally up to no good.
Exactly what race is Turkish? Might want to look up Nationality and RaceLast edited by rasputin; 11-29-2010 at 06:17 PM.
█ Jeremy Kinsey (jer@mia.net) - 262-248-6759
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11-29-2010, 06:16 PM #66Web Hosting Master
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Unfortunately yet again there are many people posting inaccurate information in this thread.
My question to Turnkey would be 'how do you plan to authenticate the credit card information (if provided) by this customer considering they have paid via PayPal?'
Since you cannot achieve the above why are you asking/storing this information, what can it possibly achieve?█ Coreix™ | your solution™ www.coreix.net - 08000226734 - ISO27001 Certified
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11-29-2010, 07:02 PM #67Junior Guru Wannabe
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You do have the right to ask for a signature and that the card be signed but according to the Merchant Agreement you can not refuse the transaction based on refusal to provide ID. If you do they could cancel you privalege to accept ther card.
Just because you have been doing it doesn't mean you're right.
I have been going to Vegas on a regular base since 1982 ... I used to get carded everytime I tried to buy booze or chips and even when I sat down to play BJ.
I have not been carded for anything (except checking in at the hotel - NV law so I am told) for more than 20 years. <sigh>
You may be right here .. although that has been challeged successfuly in court many times. If you put yourself out as a public enterprise there are some rules (that vary from place to place) that you must go by.
Me neither but there are a lot of people who take their privacy very very serious
Turks and Kurds mostly ... If I remember correctly (school was a long time ago for me). Don't they teach Geography where you live?The Mule
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11-29-2010, 07:04 PM #68WHT Addict
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They are just crazy. They refused my order because i am from Brazil.
One of the reasons given is that the customer service number of my credit card was wrong on their verification, but i just sent the copy of the both sides of the credit card to them, and it's absolutely right.
I think they shouldn't accept any overseas order if they are not propared to friendly understand and know the customers
Just C class service.Luciano G. Santos
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11-29-2010, 07:07 PM #69Junior Guru
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I think all companies (small or large) we have the right to protect ourselves against fraudulent practices, perhaps the issue here is how he commented the client.
One problem to consider is the language, to translate the text may look a cold or even rude. Perhaps the only provider performing the normal process would not be offensive.
Just a point to consider
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11-29-2010, 07:19 PM #70Junior Guru Wannabe
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Yep and that is why we run credit cards thru an authorization proccess .. If it comes back accepted with an authoraztion number we will be paid. The CC company accepts the risk.
Lup --- I wouldn't sell to you either cause you're from Brazil. And before you ask, There is no reason for it it's just my policy.The Mule
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12-01-2010, 04:13 PM #71Web Hosting Master
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The MasterCard and VISA merchant agreements do not differentiate between in-person and remote sales when it comes to requiring ID. You are simply not allowed to make the presentation of ID a condition to complete the sale with a VISA or MasterCard. Any violation of this rule can potentially be reported to your bank and get your merchant account yanked.
Here's the relevant sections of each of the two agreements:
Mastercard (http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchan...l_public.pdf):
Originally Posted by Mastercard
The VISA merchant agreement was apparently replaced with the very very long (1000+ pages) International Operating Regulations (http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan...tions-main.pdf), which state, in chapter 6 (presently page 428):
Originally Posted by VISA
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