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  1. #1

    Angry Turnkey Internet asks my credit card details for a PayPal payment [based on country]


    Very well, TurnKey. I'm really impressed by your "deep commitment to customer satisfaction".

    Due to Turnkey Internet's Black Friday 50% off deal, I've purchased the Q9550 with 1 GigE dedicated port via paypal. After that, got an email asking these documents:

    ...
    1) Print and complete the attached CREDIT CARD AUTHORIZATION FORM
    2) Please scan or take a photograph of your Picture ID (driver's license, government ID, or passport).
    3) Please scan or take a photograph of the front and back of the billing credit card you are using for this purchase (it must match the details from item (1) above).
    ...
    I thought it's a regular procedure for credit card payments. But I've paid via PayPal. So sent them my picture ID only.
    They replied back:


    Unfortunately we no longer have any available GigE ported servers available. We can still provision the server, but with a 100Mb link and credit your account accordingly.
    We will also need the form returned, regardless of payment menthod.
    I've asked for another server with 1 GigE port:

    I need GigE port server and paid for it as advertised. Please upgrade me to another equivalent server with 1Gbps dedicated port for same price.
    And the reply:

    Your order will be canceled (and refunded) if full documentation is not provided.

    These 50% off discount deals are at our discretion, you choose to NOT provide every detail we require which

    A) includes copies of the payment method (yes the credit card you used on paypal)

    B) the photo ID

    C) the signed authorization form

    Then the order will be canceled and refunded within the next 8 hours, we don't have time to waste time with fraud.

    Your country (turkey) has the 2nd highest rate of fraud with orders to our company, its not to say YOU ARE FRAUD, but your country is huge on fraud and we will not waste time or risk fraud without the documentation.

    YOUR CHOICE, provide documentation, or we will cancel the order.
    They don't want to waste time because I'm Turkish. Is this rude and racist manner normal in the hosting industry?
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  2. #2
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    is not unusual, many companies require these documents to prevent fraud.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Scotland, UK
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    Without reading everything, why would you say they are racist? Why do people always play this card.

    They stated a FACT about the country you live in. They even explicitly mentioned that this is because of the country you live in providing large numbers of fraud orders and NOT that you personally were a fraud.

    I couldn't care less about the policies or ins and outs of your problem but WHT should stop allowing these stupid idiotic posts. It really irritates me the way people always play the racist card when things don't go their way.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    51
    I dont get why would they ask for CC auth form if you are going to pay month by month through paypal? they should have disabled paypal or any other type of payments if they wanted a CC auth form to be faxed/emailed to them.

    Again, as the title says "You have elected to pay for your Internet Services using VISA, Mastercard, etc".. which is not true in his case, he opted to pay via paypal.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    4,487
    Not sure how this is racist. If they were a Turkish company and 50% or more of there fraud still came from Turkey then yes I am sure they would still say the same thing.

  6. #6
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    some companies wont even take orders from turkey be happy they will ever sell you a server.

  7. #7
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    Lake Geneva, WI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post

    Very well, TurnKey. I'm really impressed by your "deep commitment to customer satisfaction".

    Due to Turnkey Internet's Black Friday 50% off deal, I've purchased the Q9550 with 1 GigE dedicated port via paypal. After that, got an email asking these documents:



    I thought it's a regular procedure for credit card payments. But I've paid via PayPal. So sent them my picture ID only.
    They replied back:





    I've asked for another server with 1 GigE port:



    And the reply:



    They don't want to waste time because I'm Turkish. Is this rude and racist manner normal in the hosting industry?
    How in the hell is this racist? This is almost VERBATIM what we and every other legitimate host I know of asks for. Fraud is rampant out there and we have to be sure we are dealing with who you say you are.

    Racist? Did I miss something???
    Jeremy Anthony Kinsey (jer@mia.net) - 262-248-6759
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Toronto, Canada
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    racist? assas

    How is that racist?asking for verification is a industry norm these days.
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  9. #9
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    I don't see how this is as all racist? Turkey is a high risk country with a lot of fraud happening, TurnkeyInternet are merely protecting themselves and the possible victim of fraud. Just submit your information and you'll get your server.

  10. #10
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    I don't find it racist at all, they're just taking proactive steps to stop fraud orders. The special they're running will be attracting a lot of customers, and usually budget services / crazy specials and offers attract a lot of 'questionable' folk.

    I'm pretty sure most hosts have a similar policy for orders placed by high risk countries, I know we do.
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  11. #11
    Is it legal in US to say "You have yo give us your credit card number because you're black. Yeah, you've paid for the service, but black people has high rate of fraud, so you have to scan your credit card and picture ID"?

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    I guess the bigger question now is, what race are we talking about. I was not aware Turk was a race. I think its more caucasian and mixed than anything else.

    BTW, I took at look at that PDF for the payment verification. Its almost identical to what we use, minus the logo. I've never had anyone have a problem with it, save for the people that were trying to screw us.
    Jeremy Anthony Kinsey (jer@mia.net) - 262-248-6759
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    I don't see any racism but they are in violation of visa and mastercard regulations.

    When you pay with paypal a merchant is not provided with any credit card information _at all_. Using PayPal to process payments is not a merchant account and does not entitle merchants to conduct themselves as accepting credit cards.

    Things might be different if it's going through PayPal virtual terminal but I don't think that's what you did here.

    They should of thanked you for using PayPal since international credit card transactions offer merchants no recourse regardless of the ID you send them.

    Visa and Mastercard regulations are rather restrictive as to what material your allowed to collect from clients.

    I believe they do have a point about Turkey, I think alot of businesses won't conduct business with Turkey just because of the fraud.
    Last edited by woods01; 11-24-2010 at 08:03 PM.
    James Paul Woods
    Operations Manager
    HostKitty Internet Services

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    I guess the bigger question now is, what race are we talking about. I was not aware Turk was a race. I think its more caucasian and mixed than anything else.

    BTW, I took at look at that PDF for the payment verification. Its almost identical to what we use, minus the logo. I've never had anyone have a problem with it, save for the people that were trying to screw us.
    Well, I would send them my credit card details if it's their way to protect themselves. But, if they tell me "We don't have time to waste with someone from Turkey", there must be a problem.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post
    Is it legal in US to say "You have yo give us your credit card number because you're black. Yeah, you've paid for the service, but black people has high rate of fraud, so you have to scan your credit card and picture ID"?
    Are you black?

    Evet, in the US merchants have the right to ask for proof of a person's identity by way of photo ID when payment is made in any other form than CASH.

    You pay by check, charge, paypal, I don't care if you are green and come from Vulcan, I need a copy of your driver's license, photo ID, passport, something!

    Its a completely common practice to ask for photo ID from someone attempting to pay with something other than cash. Its neither racist, nor unethical.

    What exactly makes you think this is racist?
    Jeremy Anthony Kinsey (jer@mia.net) - 262-248-6759
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Are you black?

    Evet, in the US merchants have the right to ask for proof of a person's identity by way of photo ID when payment is made in any other form than CASH.

    You pay by check, charge, paypal, I don't care if you are green and come from Vulcan, I need a copy of your driver's license, photo ID, passport, something!

    Its a completely common practice to ask for photo ID from someone attempting to pay with something other than cash. Its neither racist, nor unethical.

    What exactly makes you think this is racist?
    I have sent them my picture ID. I would send my credit card details too. But their reason is, yeah, racist.

  17. #17
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    Apr 2009
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    My order was flagged too; they asked me to fill out form, provide ID, and give a scan of my CC. I e-mailed them back asking why my order was flagged. I was told they do it to everyone. In the same e-mail I included a picture ID and I told them I don't feel comfortable sending them a picture of my credit card because of rampant fraud. I then proceeded to ask them to switch my payment method to Google Checkout since I didn't want to send over my CC information. Within an hour or two Adam called me up to confirm my order and the order was processed (I still paid via my CC). I'm a minority - no racism against me AFAIK.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post
    Well, I would send them my credit card details if it's their way to protect themselves. But, if they tell me "We don't have time to waste with someone from Turkey", there must be a problem.
    Maybe he's had issues with people from certain parts of the world. Many of us are suspect of Nigerian or Malaysian orders. That's not racist, its just that many of us have been burned enough to recognize the warning signs.

    I doubt I'd ever call anyone on it to their face. I am happy to just not accept the business myself when I see what might be a problem.

    What race is Turkey btw?

    My biggest pet peeve today is the improper use of the word racist.

    All I'm saying is it is not unreasonable for a business to ask for a potential customer to provide some proof that they will not f#$k us over.

    Its also not unreasonable for a potential customer to be prepared to provide that proof. I've been doing this almost 14 years now and its RARE, that I am wrong when it comes to reading people.

    What exactly is the problem with providing this information anyway? The only thing we cannot ask for is a social security number. Address, telephone, photo id, etc. its all pretty much a requirement.

    Let me ask this. Can you walk into a bank with a check made out to cash at a bank you do not do business with, with no photo ID of any kind, and cash it? If they ask you for some other info, are you gonna call them racist?
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Let me ask this. Can you walk into a bank with a check made out to cash at a bank you do not do business with, with no photo ID of any kind, and cash it? If they ask you for some other info, are you gonna call them racist?
    It's illegal in Turkey to discriminate people by race, country, religion or the language he/she speaks; in ANY situation. You simply can't label someone as a potential criminal all because he/she is from a specific country. I would sue them if it happens in Turkey.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post

    Very well, TurnKey. I'm really impressed by your "deep commitment to customer satisfaction".

    Due to Turnkey Internet's Black Friday 50% off deal, I've purchased the Q9550 with 1 GigE dedicated port via paypal. After that, got an email asking these documents:



    I thought it's a regular procedure for credit card payments. But I've paid via PayPal. So sent them my picture ID only.
    They replied back:





    I've asked for another server with 1 GigE port:



    And the reply:



    They don't want to waste time because I'm Turkish. Is this rude and racist manner normal in the hosting industry?
    They need the information so they do not get a chargeback, which COSTS THEM MONEY. Small business is hard, and they are taking normal precautions. TURKEY does have HIGH CC FRAUD, I know from my business.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post
    It's illegal in Turkey to discriminate people by race, country, religion or the language he/she speaks; in ANY situation. You simply can't label someone as a potential criminal all because he/she is from a specific country. I would sue them if it happens in Turkey.
    They're based in New York, why would Turkish law apply to them? Besides, as others have pointed out they are simply doing what thousands of other companies do daily.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post
    I have sent them my picture ID. I would send my credit card details too. But their reason is, yeah, racist.
    if the amount is over $500, they do not have paypal protection against fraud

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin M View Post
    They're based in New York, why would Turkish law apply to them? Besides, as others have pointed out they are simply doing what thousands of other companies do daily.
    I haven't said them i won't send these documents, also I have send them my photo ID. I asked for the service I paid, and they replied "You're a potential criminal, because you're from Turkey. Send us these documents or get out". It's what I found non-acceptable. I have sent thousands of documents to web sites, and i will continue to send. The problem is, eeah anyways, i hope you get...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evet View Post
    I haven't said them i won't send these documents, also I have send them my photo ID. I asked for the service I paid, and they replied "You're a potential criminal, because you're from Turkey. Send us these documents or get out". It's what I found non-acceptable. I have sent thousands of documents to web sites, and i will continue to send. The problem is, eeah anyways, i hope you get...
    Are those their exact words? If not, don't put them in quotes as it's very misleading.

  25. #25
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    Although I think Turnkey Internet did nothing wrong by demanding the OP provide the necessary paperwork because he is from Turkey (a country where a lot of fraud originates), I do believe they could have been a bit more diplomatic/professional about it. Reading TKI's response to the OP, it felt like a teenage kid's response who is trying not to be racist but still wanted to get his point across.

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