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  1. #1

    Reseller Tiers: Where do these hosts fall?

    As someone who is on a tedious task of seeking a company to resell for, I tried to find the correct definition of a "Tier 1 Provider". It's common jargon but is not exactly clear whether they refer to a marketing or engineering heirarchy. Somewhere, I read this heirarchal designation for hosts/resellers:

    Tier 1 ISP with Internet backbone - provides Internet transit to NOC's AND provides server co-location and/or dedicated servers to wholesale resellers and/or retail resellers and/or end users (ISPs that only provide transit don't qualify as a web host)

    Tier 2 NOC connected to ISP - provides server co-location and/or dedicated servers to wholesale resellers and/or retail resellers and/or end users

    Tier 3 Self-administered Co-located server hosted at NOC - provides hosting to wholesale resellers and/or retail resellers and/or end users

    Tier 4 Dedicated server administered by NOC - provides hosting to wholesale resellers and/or retail resellers and/or end users

    Tier 5 Wholesale reseller - provides hosting to retail resellers and/ or end users


    My question is:

    By the above outline, which tier do the following companies belong: httpme, voxtreme, ventures online, unitedhosting, olm, AIT, prowebspace, theplanet?

    I realize that a vast majority of companies do not really own and have no physical access to their data center, and I will be a reseller for another reseller. I would just want to know what section of the totem pole I will occupy...lol.

    Thanks in advance
    kram

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    1. VO can't be the same tier as httpme (NAC servers) as the former owns their data center.
    2. I have an account with Prowebspace and my IP resolves to ThePlanet.

    Anyone else? Thanks again.

  4. #4
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    Well if you get a reseller account you'll be in #5 according to your chart.

    I pesonally don't see why 3 and 4 is any diffrence, plus (I may be wrong here) but wouldn't someone like burstnet/thePlanet/VO fall into 1 and 2 according to this chart?
    Regards,
    Eric

    __________________

  5. #5
    Thank you, Esr Tek

    I won't be in 5 if I get a VO dedicated server with an account manager and resell with them, correct? As I see it, the term "reseller" and "host provider" has more than meets the eye...lol.

  6. #6
    this is an incorrect definition of tiers. why do you care? all of these companies state where they are.

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

    dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters

  7. #7
    Thanks Paul. If it's okay, can you correct that person's marketing tier definition?

    Anyone else? Thanks.


  8. #8
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    IMHO if your gonna break it down into tiers 3 would be the right number of tiers.

    1) ISP / Noc (Sprint - Verio / the Planet - Burstnet - VO)
    2) Deciated box's (managed or not)
    3) Resellers -- either bulk resellers (eg CLIENTS of htpme / vortech etc) or 3rd party resellers (which sell thier parnet hosts plans)

    This just how I would classify the tiers more. (if I had to )

    Feel free to correct me
    Regards,
    Eric

    __________________

  9. #9
    Hi Esr Tek,
    I like that! Hope you can help me out with this related question: If all offerings are more or less equal among all providers regardless of which tier they belong, why would a customer choose Vortech over VO, for example?

    Is the factor of convenience (web design/hosting from the same company, which I am doing) a strong enough marketing strategy so that I can have my own humble client base?

    Also, to everyone: In your experience or from hearsay, does physical access to its own data center equate with better service? Or is this matter irrelevant.

    I appreciate your thoughts; whomever I choose (will be my 3rd host, as I turn my "hobby" into a full-fledged business) is for the long haul. Thank you.

  10. #10
    tier 1 - providers who own their own long-haul networks (or lease fiber for such from others). they typically peer with other tier 1 providers.
    examples: williams, level3 etc

    tier 2 - providers who purchase transit from tier 1 providers, because they do not have their own long haul networks or do not qualify for settlement free peering.
    examples: internap, yipes

    after that, i havent heard the tier metaphor used so much, but if it were, it would break down like this:

    tier 3 - datacenters with their own ASNs, routing etc
    examples: burst, rackshack etc

    tier 4: companies that colocate, share a datacenter etc and use the datacenter's ip infrastructure

    tier 5: dedicated box + a few people adminning them

    tier 6: resellers

    i know dragoon will eventually waltz in here and correct me =]

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

    dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters

  11. #11
    yes, physical access to the datacenter is typically better, *provided all other variables are the same*. it is however completely possible that a company with no physical access will provide better service. indeed, that is common. imho, smaller companies that are run by honest and dedicated individuals will typically outperform huge syndicates in the service department.

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

    dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Australia
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    Re: Reseller Tiers: Where do these hosts fall?

    Originally posted by kram
    I realize that a vast majority of companies do not really own and have no physical access to their data center, and I will be a reseller for another reseller. I would just want to know what section of the totem pole I will occupy...lol.
    All hosts resell. Even if you own your own DC, then you're still reselling the bandwidth [provided to you by your bw providers] to your clients....etc.....etc.
    WLVPN.com NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider
    Increase your hosting profits by adding VPN to your product line up

  13. #13
    I totally agree with your line of thinking here, Rusko. A lot of co-located hosts seem to have held their own and customers swear by them. My current provider suffered down time resulting from alleged DOS attacks but the owner faces his cadre's wrath by staging live chats to answer questions. Service has been top-notch so far. I will most likely retain this company to host my offsite help page, especially since they doubled my space and transfer for free to compensate. It's too bad they don't have everything I'd like to offer in my reseller package or I'd stay with them.

    Your posts have helped me come closer to whom I will go with. Thanks much!

  14. #14
    QUOTE]All hosts resell. Even if you own your own DC, then you're still reselling the bandwidth [provided to you by your bw providers] to your clients....etc.....etc. [/QUOTE]

    Aussie_bob! Thanks for posting. Can you IM me the 5% you mentioned on your site that DO own their data centers?

    BTW I agree with your comment somewhere that one's niche could be local and be successful; not necessarily the world. And that's exactly what I have in mind.

    You rock, says everyone.

  15. #15
    A large host can almost always improve their margins by having their own DC... but not if they aren't technical.

    I've been using my own DC for 3 years, and it has been completely worth it to me. I have known other ISPs that felt they should own a DC, and it required that they hire additional staff because they didn't have the networking experience. That costs a lot of money (60-120k/year).
    Hugh Buchanan
    harveyopolis corporation
    userfriendly.com / killersecurity.com

  16. #16
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    Austin, TX
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    I find it ironic that you're worried about how many middlemen lie between your webhost and the internet when all you're interested in doing is becoming yet another middleman...

  17. #17
    Nah jbishop, on the contrary, not worried at all. I just want to be informed so that I know what to tell people who give me their money. And though I won't plainly state that I am a dirt-level reseller...I will not feign being a higher tier provider (I'm sure no one who is still around does), even at the risk of losing their business. Sorry that you were so compelled to analyze the motive behind my question, LOL. Was just wondering! Thanks again for the input.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by Esr Tek
    Well if you get a reseller account you'll be in #5 according to your chart.

    I pesonally don't see why 3 and 4 is any diffrence...

    I think there's a very significant difference between renting a server from a Rackshack or a Nocster, and owning servers that you colo in your own rack. Most rented servers, for example, you can walk away from because it'sa month to month deal. To make the step up to owning your own you're making a pretty clear statement that you're not about to walk away. Also, when you own and colo you're taking on more direct responsibility for the servers hardware and system.

  19. #19
    I've been using my own DC for 3 years, and it has been completely worth it to me. I have known other ISPs that felt they should own a DC, and it required that they hire additional staff because they didn't have the networking experience.
    Yes, userfriendly. A lot can be said about this business really requiring tech, business, time management, PR savvy. Outsourcing if one is short on one of the above messes up the plan, esp if you can't afford it!

    More power to you.

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