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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    3,082

    Smile Support ?!? I am doing too much or too little?

    Today I have a 2-year hosting customer reports to me saying that they have problems sending out Emeow ~ And she says that this problem has been occuring over the past month and some emeow are getting bounced back ~

    They have MS Exchange installed in their office and you know this could also bring into problems to emeow routing if there is any misconfiguration ~~

    On my side, my Emeow server has been running for two months and I have made no changes to it at all. I have received no support emeows from any one of my customers regarding emeow being bounced back ~~


    This is the error she is getting:
    You do not have permission to send to this recipient. For assistance, contact your system administrator.

    <customer-domain.com #5.7.1 smtp;550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for user@recipient.com>
    What I think the problem is that there could be a mis-communication between their MS Exchange Server and my emeow server. I have went through the logs and don't see they have ever sent to that recipient listed in the message. It is most likely the emeow was bounced back from their MS Exchange Server before delivering my SMTP server here ~~ Other than that, it could be virus as I've found there are some people actually have the same problem because of virus.

    So what did I do next? I installed Microsoft Windows 2000 Server and MS Exchange on my spare machine and test it out myself. I have been sitting here, jumping from room to room in the past 9 hours trying to get it configured. Right now I am considering to give up because I am new to MS Exchange and I don't know how to setup the same way they have in their office because I have never seen it.

    If you are in my situation, what do you think I should do?
    Am I working too much or should I just leave it?

    If there is a host that falls into this same situation, do they just tell them to pack up to leave without even trying to solve it?

    Should I just cancel their hosting? ~

    I really want to help and bring them happy, but I doubt I can with my limited knowledge on windoz servers ~

    And in the past 9 hours, I have learnt so much on windows about IIS, SMTP, etc ~

  2. #2

    *

    What is Emeow

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    798
    Isn't 5.7.1 a permissions error? Seems to me it could be that the recipient has specific permissions set up on their end and it is rejecting the mail from your client. Or it could be that the exchange system has "This exchange organization is responsible for all mail delivery for this domain" checked on their end. (Or both! Or neither! Helpful ain't I?)

    Check this out:
    http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;284204

    Very bottom of the page gives you possible reasons for the error. My vote is recipient restrictions. GL!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,710
    Originally posted by thebigidea
    What is Emeow
    E-mail
    MediaLayer, LLC - www.medialayer.com Learn how we can make your website load faster, translating to better conversion rates for your business!
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,833
    We've had issues with people using external servers as well and we check the logs but that is about as far as you can really go unless your logs show the problem.

    Explain to them that because the server is external, it is outwith the scope of your support as you can only provide support on issues relating directly to your servers.

    Every single time we have had people contact us about something like this, the problem has turned out to be on their end and nothing to do with our servers.

    You will never get anywhere trying to debug problems on a server that you do not have access to and the settings could be configured in any number of ways. Sure you might be able to solve this problem, but it is simply a matter of guessing what is wrong because you can't change anything to test it.

    Once you start providing support on their local servers, they will likely come to you everytime they have a problem with it and you will be expected to help, because you did in the past.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    973
    have them go into outlook,
    tools > internet options > accounts > servers >

    now at the bottom of this menu have them check my server requires authentication. This should solve your problem. if not it's a server side issue with exchange. Assuming you have tested connecting to your own server from an exteral location and had no errors.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    164
    Hi YUPAPA,

    Are you using Ensim on that server?

    Regards,

    Derek Solarino
    Derek @ BP6 Network - BP6.Net
    - Managed shared hosting, & more.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    3,082

    Smile

    Originally posted by USWEB-Darren
    Isn't 5.7.1 a permissions error? Seems to me it could be that the recipient has specific permissions set up on their end and it is rejecting the mail from your client. Or it could be that the exchange system has "This exchange organization is responsible for all mail delivery for this domain" checked on their end. (Or both! Or neither! Helpful ain't I?)

    Check this out:
    http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;284204

    Very bottom of the page gives you possible reasons for the error. My vote is recipient restrictions. GL!
    Thanks, I have been looking, fixing and sending them samples, but it seems like they don't want to see them ~ Maybe she isn't an I.T. person ~


    Originally posted by Wullie
    We've had issues with people using external servers as well and we check the logs but that is about as far as you can really go unless your logs show the problem.

    Explain to them that because the server is external, it is outwith the scope of your support as you can only provide support on issues relating directly to your servers.

    Every single time we have had people contact us about something like this, the problem has turned out to be on their end and nothing to do with our servers.

    You will never get anywhere trying to debug problems on a server that you do not have access to and the settings could be configured in any number of ways. Sure you might be able to solve this problem, but it is simply a matter of guessing what is wrong because you can't change anything to test it.

    Once you start providing support on their local servers, they will likely come to you everytime they have a problem with it and you will be expected to help, because you did in the past.
    Yes I understand ~

    What I was trying to do was to setup the system like them and had it working so that we could compare what was right and what was wrong~ Maybe some checkboxes or something they didn't ticked that caused this ~ But then until now, I can't get it working the way they have there ~

    have them go into outlook,
    tools > internet options > accounts > servers >

    now at the bottom of this menu have them check my server requires authentication. This should solve your problem. if not it's a server side issue with exchange. Assuming you have tested connecting to your own server from an exteral location and had no errors.
    Thanks ~ I think the problem really lies on the Exchange Server ~

    Originally posted by Derek@BP6.Net
    Hi YUPAPA,

    Are you using Ensim on that server?

    Regards,

    Derek Solarino
    No ~ If you are talking about control panel, I am using my own ~ If you are asking what Emeow server, I am using Sendmail ~


    I think I'll just tell them straight out that I couldn't get it to work because I am new to this, and like Wullie said, I don't have access to their system so I can't really see what is going on and how it is working on their side ~ I'll ask them when they settle with their new host, are the problems still there. If somehow they get it fixed, I'll ask them how so I can fix this problem if it occurs to one of my clients in the future ~

    I am not good at handling what part I should do and what part I shouldn't do when it comes to support ~

    Maybe I am doing too much way beyond what I am supposed to do or maybe I am not, but I always do what I can to help and this one seems to be the one that I can't help ~ I am afriad to see customers going mad even though she has said that she is impressed with my service ~

    So sad to see a 2 year customer is going to go with another host ~ Not that because she is leaving, it is because she has been with us for so long and enjoy my service, but suddenly things doesn't work out and either side doesn't knows who is causing the problem and leaves without a good reason ~ If I am making the service downhill and she is leaving, then yes it is my fault and I am glad that she leaves. If she finds out that she misconfigured something causing all the problems when she is with another host, then too bad ~
    Last edited by YUPAPA; 03-02-2005 at 11:46 PM.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by ZeonFx.com
    E-mail

    ...I am a little slow today


    Also I think you have done right here. It isn't really your problem most likely. It is nice and "above and beyond" that you try to help at all. Maybe will build good reputation about your customer service hmm? But you should do no more or. As another poster say. They will come to you with all their IT probs in future.
    Last edited by the love below; 03-03-2005 at 12:09 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    335
    First thing you should do is have them forward you the full headers etc of the message so you can be sure which server is causing the problem. Its likely that that is an exchange configuration issue, I've seen it before.

    As for supporting the client, you basicaly have the option of trying to help, and explaining you dont support software you dont use (and bill them for your time if you wish) or tell them you dont support whatever particular bit of software they might happen to be using and hire a consultant/someone who knows how to set it up. If you spend an hour or so on a problem no big deal, but time is money and all. And as others have said, you dont want them calling you for problems totally unrelated to the services you provide.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    .INdiana
    Posts
    2,465
    ask them to try logging into the account using webmail, or a site like http://mail2web.com/. (of course, you make sure it works first! ) ...... that may help move their problem focus away from your 'stuff'.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Gatos
    Posts
    588
    Funny, I have one customer out of 100 or so on one box that suddenly can't recieve mail form ebay. None of the others have any problem and it is a totally isolated problem. They can recieve from another account they have with us but not this one. After fighting with it for several days, I kinda gave up and told them to change their email address with ebay to the other account. I still for the life of me can't figure out what is going on, our servers never get a hint of an email from ebay for that account and ebay isn't willing to talk about bounces or provide info so I don't know whos side it is on. I wouldn't lose the customer if I could keep from it, if you can find an alternate method that works, or verify info from the other side... Good luck in your efforts, don't you just hate that?
    Server$Hit.com Reseller/Hosting For Real People
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  13. #13
    Sounds to me like eBay banned her email address due to abuse or violations....ask the customer what their ebay ID is and see if they show up.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Gatos
    Posts
    588
    no, ebay didn't, and when we changed his email address, ebay was able to send him emails, went through that for over a week, it was an isolated incident. The point was, sometimes the solution is no solution at all but diversion around the problem.
    Server$Hit.com Reseller/Hosting For Real People
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  15. #15
    Originally posted by ArtieFishill
    Sounds to me like eBay banned her email address due to abuse or violations....ask the customer what their ebay ID is and see if they show up.





    yah... thats probably what happened

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Gatos
    Posts
    588
    Maybe I should be clearer,... NO, EBAY DIDN'T. In a 3-way conversatin between myself, the customer, and EBAY. It was determined that he had not been banned. The support guy tried another email to him while we were on the phone, and it never even hit the server. No-one else had a problem, we switched it to an email address on his other account and worked without a hitch. The point was and still is, a support issue that you spend much time with might not even be yours to worry about and sometimes the "computer gods" just aren't pleased with your personal sacrafice, might try another method.

    The thread starters problem sounds like an issue on the recievers system and not his, yet he has setup a windows server (yuk) and gone above and beyound the call of duty. It's a good excercise of frustration that could have been spent better watching reruns of "I Love Lucy".
    Server$Hit.com Reseller/Hosting For Real People
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    www.ForALaugh.com Get over IT Get over yourself
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
    Posts
    5,649
    Originally posted by YUPAPA
    So sad to see a 2 year customer is going to go with another host ~ ~
    what??

    so you are saying they are leaving because of something that is THIER fault?

    maybe they shouldnt be using MS products...

    maybe they should spend some money and hire someone to fix this?

    maybe they should use email the way the rest of us do.

    people here are right, had you fixed THEIR problem (for free) this time, you can bet theyd be bugging you forever to fix everything else...
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    3,082

    Smile

    Originally posted by LaurenStephens.com
    what??

    so you are saying they are leaving because of something that is THIER fault?
    I never said it was their fault!
    I said nobody knows who side it is on ~

    It could be my Emeow server acting up crazy or it could be their MS Exchange misconfigured ~
    Last edited by YUPAPA; 03-04-2005 at 02:12 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
    Posts
    5,649
    well it isnt YOUR fault
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    343
    "sometimes the solution is no solution at all but diversion around the problem."

    concreteman.. no truer words have been spoken often. That statement defines what life is ..

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    chica go go
    Posts
    11,876
    Perhaps you could find another person who is a microsoft exchange expert, and hire him fix the job for you.

    You've done alot of work, and you gave it an honest effort. You haven't done too little.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    125
    It looks like the email is being rejected by their Exchange Server rather than your email server.

    We use Exchange in our office, and here's the error message I recieve when I attempt to send an email using a "from" address that isn't authorized to relay through Exchange


    Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

    Subject: Test Email
    Sent: 04/03/2005 23:35

    The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

    jim@nosite.co.uk on 04/03/2005 23:35
    You do not have permission to send to this recipient. For assistance, contact your system administrator.
    MSEXCH:MSExchangeIS:/DC=local/DC=NetworkOnline:COLIN

    As you can see, the actual error message (You do not have permission to send to this recipient. For assistance, contact your system administrator.) is exactly the same.

    Looks like the problem is definitely on their side.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    3,082

    Smile

    How did you get the domain relayed by MS Exchange? It should be automatically done when an emeow sent to you I suppose ~
    Last edited by YUPAPA; 03-04-2005 at 08:14 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    125
    I'm not an Exchange expert - not by a long shot - but I'd lay long-odds on the fact that the problem lies in their configuration of Exchange.

    I assume they are using Exchange in their office, that then connects to your email server to both relay emails and collect emails. Since they don't appear to have mentioned problems collecting emails its probably safe to assume there is no problem.

    Their problems are occuring when they attempt to send some emails. From the error message you displayed, they are attempting to send an email to someone using a "from" or "return" address that isn't authorized to be sent using that Exchange server - that works just like using SMTP authentication and only allowing users to relay emails with the same return address as the email address they use when they authenticate.

    Any emails they send, that Exchange does allow, are reaching your email server (and ultimately their recipient), other emails with "from" and "return" addresses that aren't allowed by Exchange are being stopped at the interface with Exchange and aren't even reaching your email server i.e. they aren't leaving their office and your email server isn't getting a chance to allow/reject the message.

    If this problem has only just started occurring, the first thing they should find out is what has changed in their set up...something must have.

    The next thing they need to do - its already been mentioned - is find a local consultant who understands Exchange and get them to fix it. It won't be cheap, but moving host isn't going to solve their problem since it's to do with Exchange.

    Even if they by-passed your email servers to send emails directly using Exchange (that's how our Exchange server works) they are still going to get exactly the same error message.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    6,990
    Ask them to test their email account on Outlook , if it is ok, it is quite obvious their exchange setting have problems. We encountered several such cases, it all turned out they bought the Microsoft Small Business pack and proceed to install everything without knowing anything. Not Microsoft products fault, it is a user's knowledge which is at fault.

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