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Thread: What a shame...

  1. #1
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    What a shame...

    This happened to me once and I totally understand what these guys go through. Shame on those organizations who didn't care about this wonderful resource:

    http://www.sxc.hu


    For those who don't know, this was (and still is) my favorite free stock imaging portal.

    How can companies do this without even the simplest investigation? Don't they feel at all responsible or ashamed of their actions? Anyone can claim spam on something and that's it - you're done and out of business? At least the host itself should have some proof before pulling the plug of a server! Doesn't sound right and it shouldn't be this way.

    Sad Artashes,
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  2. #2
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    I'm wondering how it works out though, there are always two sides to a story. I don't want to think a provider would pull the plug on a website without some form of investigation into the matter.

  3. #3
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    See, I'm thinking the opposite - the provider was too scared to get their IP or IP range banned or something. So no investigation was put into this.
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  4. #4
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    Happened here twice.
    Someone reported a client of mine via spamcop, when it was a news letter, sent out by another website, containing my clients domain inside of it. And he got accused of sending the spam...

    Good thing we were notified immediately and the situation was confirmed.
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  5. #5
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    Yep the anti spam war is getting bloody, and more and more you see people using it to get "revenge" on one person or another, a joe job is horribly easy to pull off.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    I'm wondering how it works out though, there are always two sides to a story. I don't want to think a provider would pull the plug on a website without some form of investigation into the matter.
    Spamcop says it's spam and WILL put you on their blocklist if you don't suspend them, what investigation CAN you do? Contact spamcop and claim it was a non-asked for link in a news letter? Good luck with that.

    This is why we have a central smtp server, it doesn't host any web sites so it can never be "spamvertised" because there's nothing on it to advertise. So even if we get pissed at spamcop and refuse to pull a site that's obviously innocent (yes I've dont this a couple times, when I'm positive it's a false report) and end up on that list the email won't get blocked since the spamvertised server isn't supposed to send mail anyway. It usually takes more than one or two reports to blacklist a server so it's yet to come to that point but just planning for the future.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  7. #7
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    I'd at least consider some form of notification to the customer, it's just hard for me to believe something so small would cause such a large problem. So you're saying one user sending a report to spamcop could bring down an entire website? I know there is a pretty good war going on against SPAM, but I did not realize it was this easy to get someone unplugged.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    I'd at least consider some form of notification to the customer, it's just hard for me to believe something so small would cause such a large problem. So you're saying one user sending a report to spamcop could bring down an entire website? I know there is a pretty good war going on against SPAM, but I did not realize it was this easy to get someone unplugged.
    Yes one single complaint is enough in many cases. Sad but true.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  9. #9
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    Very sad. I knew that a few reports could bring a website down, or a server unplugged, but did not realize that it has gotten worse.

  10. #10
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    What I fins amazing is that SpamCop never blocks any large free email provider like Yahoo! or Hotmail. And spam's coming from there daily by the thousands! Outrageous!

    Those running SpamCop really don't give a **** about anyone else. They do what they want to do and all of us suffer. I think their policies strongly need to be revisited.
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by mno
    What I fins amazing is that SpamCop never blocks any large free email provider like Yahoo! or Hotmail. And spam's coming from there daily by the thousands! Outrageous!
    Yes, that is a bit odd isn't it? The things is, apm complaints take up loads of timne to investigate, etc., and I can't image doing it on a large scale. Just like anything else, when things get too big and overwhelming, often the quality goes down, and to me, that is the problem with these services and lists. Good idea (and good intentions), but execution of it often hurts others and causes problems. I don't know what the solution should be exactly, but I do know that spammers have only increased their efforts, not decreased, so you have to question if the 'fight against spam' is working or not. Something has to be done, but what...
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  12. #12
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    Spamcop is insane. They had dshield/SANS blocked for sending spam because a single user reported a sign up verification email. There should be a minimum level of complaints before a host is black listed, without this minimum level this could be classed as a social engineering denial of service.
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  13. #13
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    Back in the day (2 years ago), I operated a free email service in conjunction with some other websites. The tagline automatically added to outgoing emails advertised a site other than the domain - And when a client spammed, not only was the real spamvertised site listed, but the tagline site as well. Our ISP (Shared hosting at the time) contacted us saying that they normally pull the plug immediately, but since they saw that it was just due to a tagline, kept our account up. We contacted SpamCop, and a few days later, the reference to our site was removed from the file. It's a pity that some hosts strike first, and then examine the evidence (or don't in this case). SXC was my favorite site for stock photos - Hopefully it'll be up soon so I can start work on some more designs .

    -Josh

  14. #14
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    Stuff happens. Least they are coming back.
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  15. #15
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    As sad as it is, a lot of the RBL's got too heavy handed during their tenure and scared a lot of network administrators into adopting a zero tolerance policy, regardless of the legitimacy of the claim.

    It's ridiculous, but a lot of smaller hosts don't have a way to defend themselves against something as large as Spamcop, and thus fear the consequences of getting listed.

    Personally, we research any SPAM report thoroughly. If SpamCop ever did happen to list our IP, or especially our netblock, after having been shown that the claim was illegitimate, I would not hesitate to sue them for such actions.
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  16. #16
    Well thats how the cookie crumbles, especially if you trust Spamcorp...

  17. #17
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    Who you gonna sue?

    That is the part that is frustrating there is no enity behind the RBL's to sue they remian hidden and no one can get to them because it is not a person or group per say.

  18. #18
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    why ? why? why?

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Techark
    Who you gonna sue?
    The better question is what are you going to sue them for? They're not doing anything illegal. Sure, you can force them to spend a fortune defending themselves, but you won't win.

    That is the part that is frustrating there is no enity behind the RBL's to sue they remian hidden and no one can get to them because it is not a person or group per say.
    With the obvious exception of spews, most blocklist maintainers are not anonymous, nor do they try to be. If you want 'em, they're right there in the open.

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  20. #20
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    It's too bad that the host didnt double check before pulling the plug...
    73's, Kim
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Techark
    Who you gonna sue?

    That is the part that is frustrating there is no enity behind the RBL's to sue they remian hidden and no one can get to them because it is not a person or group per say.
    I think lawyers would know who to sue.
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